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  • #121
  • May 8, 2008 1:12pm May 8, 2008 1:12pm
Quoting aud
Interesting how the "masters" seem to do this. fti's approach (to trading and explaining) could not have been more different. Yet they both do it "so eloquently and with style". They both leave you feel all the wiser for having studied their posts, believing that you can do it and in "the zone" to want to learn more.
aud,

I was thinking the same thing about the similarities of PeterCrowns and fti. I really enjoyed fti's thread and his willingness to be so unselfish in his giving of his vast amount of experience and knowledge, same thing with PeterCrowns. Both of them are "Masters" who gave freely their knowledge of the forex market. I'm glad I found this thread as it is one of FF "gems" in my opinion......I have to thank Bemac for starting this thread and Islander for sending me a PM to inform me about this one, otherwise I probably would have never found it.




I have this chart of the Swissy that looks like an excellent short set up but I wanted to make sure I am reading it the correct way for the "DIBS" method

1. First, previous days close is higher than the current days open so we are looking for short opportunities.......is this correct?

2. A big bearish inside bar develops one hour (5am GMT) prior to Frankie open.

3. The next three hours see a pennant/triangle formation indicating a nice coiling up effect before the breakout.

but then I notice two other short DIBS setups later on (blue ellipse) that look like we would have been stopped out on both of them? might have been able to get to a break even on both of those though after initial break out?

any comments appreciated.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: dibs.gif Size: 13 KB
trading naked.......
  • #122
  • Edited May 9, 2008 1:47am May 8, 2008 11:50pm | Edited May 9, 2008 1:47am
Quoting piphitman
aud,

I was thinking the same thing about the similarities of PeterCrowns and fti. I really enjoyed fti's thread and his willingness to be so unselfish in his giving of his vast amount of experience and knowledge, same thing with PeterCrowns. Both of them are "Masters" who gave freely their knowledge of the forex market. I'm glad I found this thread as it is one of FF "gems" in my opinion......I have to thank Bemac for starting this thread and Islander for sending me a PM to inform me about this one, otherwise I probably would have never found it.




I have this chart of the Swissy that looks like an excellent short set up but I wanted to make sure I am reading it the correct way for the "DIBS" method

1. First, previous days close is higher than the current days open so we are looking for short opportunities.......is this correct?

2. A big bearish inside bar develops one hour (5am GMT) prior to Frankie open.

3. The next three hours see a pennant/triangle formation indicating a nice coiling up effect before the breakout.

but then I notice two other short DIBS setups later on (blue ellipse) that look like we would have been stopped out on both of them? might have been able to get to a break even on both of those though after initial break out?

any comments appreciated.
Nice piphitman. Here are my comments . . .

1.The preivous day's close is the same (and equal to) the current day's open. If they are different, blame demo tick data. They should be the same.

2. 0400 close equals 0500 open which is 1.0613. It Price is below this number we only play IBs that break the bottom. If Price is higher then this number, we only play IBs that break the top.

3. I guess the answer would be "So what." Those small losses added into the large gain from the 1st trade makes it still a profitable day.

Approx. 1st trade + 100
2nd trade -13
3rd trade -18
+ 69 not a bad day.

Moving your stop loss to break even after some gain would have made the outcome even better, but you want to give your trade a chance to run.
Attached Image
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #123
  • May 9, 2008 1:30am May 9, 2008 1:30am
I'm thinking the last two (small loss) trades are long trades that you would not take on a down day. ie the breakout bar is below the previous days close.
Good Trading
  • #124
  • Edited 1:49am May 9, 2008 1:36am | Edited 1:49am
Quoting aud
I'm thinking the last two (small loss) trades are long trades that you would not take on a down day. ie the breakout bar is below the previous days close.
No long trades were taken from the two (small loss) IBs for the reason you mentioned.

The losses were the result of taking a short trade from the bottom of the IBs and Price retraced back up and stopped them out.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #125
  • May 9, 2008 1:51am May 9, 2008 1:51am
Jarroo,

I made a mistake on my original chart. I had that Inside Bar at 5 am GMT when actually it was an error on my part because I was using my Ikon-Royal feed which is 3 hrs ahead, so the inside Bar actually occurred during the Tokyo session at 2 am GMT. (my ODL Feed is GMT) so the trade set up actually developed in the typically lower volume Asian session.

In determining the daily up or down trend to calculate whether to look for a long or short trade, it was my understanding that the previous days close is considered whatever the price is at the close of the New York session at 22:00 GMT and the price at the "start" of the new days price was at around the 5:00 to 6:00 am GMT (Frankie Open)
That gives us about 7 to 8 hrs from NY close to European open to see where the "daily trend" is for calculating what to look for once Frankie and London get going.

So for example in my new chart, NY closed at 1.0541 and Europe opened at 1.0583 so would that have us looking for long trades? or am I missing something here?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: closed hours.gif Size: 13 KB
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  • #126
  • Edited 2:20am May 9, 2008 2:03am | Edited 2:20am
Quoting PeterCrowns
A chart picture is the best thing I can do.

The chart I am attaching is a snap of the hourly GBP/USD for this week.

The white dotted lines, which are 24 hours long, start at the close of the previous day, at Midnight. I am only looking to go long on a breakout (blue line) of an inside bar if that breakout is above the previous close.

Likewise, I am only interested in selling a downside breakout (red line) if the breakout is below the previous close.

You will notice that almost all of the breakouts were significant enough for you to make a very good shorter term trade, some you could have trailed most of them with a form of trailing stop (moving average) and still be in hundreds of pips after entry with a small stop at the other side of the inside bar.

(I did get an email from a reader of this thread (Matt) who also used to be on the floor. He wasn't exactly happy that I was telling these details of floor trading. Well, my answer was: "These are very big markets and anything I might reveal is unlikely to matter much since very few will believe that profitable trading can be simple. Most are looking for some special complex answer. It isn't there!")


-PeterCrowns-
Days are 24 hours.
Attached Image
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #127
  • May 9, 2008 2:10am May 9, 2008 2:10am
ahhhhhh got it.....Thanks for the clarification Jarroo.
trading naked.......
  • #128
  • May 9, 2008 2:15am May 9, 2008 2:15am
Quoting piphitman
ahhhhhh got it.....Thanks for the clarification Jarroo.
I learning about it too.

Maybe if I (we) post more questions and charts, Peter may post a quick answer.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #129
  • May 9, 2008 2:36am May 9, 2008 2:36am
Quoting jarroo
I learning about it too.

Maybe if I (we) post more questions and charts, Peter may post a quick answer.
I'll bet Peter has even more methods he has learned over the years in the pits that he didn't tell us about, I'm grateful that he has at least given us what he has to this point.

When I get some good DIBS setups/trades I'll be sure to post them here.
trading naked.......
  • #130
  • May 9, 2008 2:37am May 9, 2008 2:37am
Quoting piphitman
I'll bet Peter has even more methods he has learned over the years in the pits that he didn't tell us about, I'm grateful that he has at least given us what he has to this point.

When I get some good DIBS setups/trades I'll be sure to post them here.
I'll try to do the same.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #131
  • Edited 3:35am May 9, 2008 3:08am | Edited 3:35am
Quoting jarroo
Nice piphitman. Here are my comments . . .

1.The preivous day's close is the same (and equal to) the current day's open. If they are different, blame demo tick data. They should be the same.

2. 0400 close equals 0500 open which is 1.0613. It Price is below this number we only play IBs that break the bottom. If Price is higher then this number, we only play IBs that break the top.

3. I guess the answer would be "So what." Those small losses added into the large gain from the 1st trade makes it still a profitable day.

Approx. 1st trade + 100
2nd trade -13
3rd trade -18
+ 69 not a bad day.

Moving your stop loss to break even after some gain would have made the outcome even better, but you want to give your trade a chance to run.
After a closer look, I made a mistake. (I see it now piphitman.)

If 1:00 AM EST (0500 GMT) is the start of the new day then the candle in this example is not 0500 GMT it is 0200 GMT. Open for new day would be 1.0584. So the results of the total day would have been -31 pips.

Still, not bad for keeping losses small. Sorry again. The jest of the example is still valid. Small losses, big gains.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #132
  • May 9, 2008 3:17am May 9, 2008 3:17am
GBP/USD

Open for the day is 1.9550. Bottom or the top of this IB at this time.
Attached Image
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #133
  • May 9, 2008 3:47am May 9, 2008 3:47am
Very insightful posts Peter, thank you...
  • #134
  • May 9, 2008 4:03am May 9, 2008 4:03am
I think I need a clear definition of an inside bar breakout.

eg

Can you have numerous inside bars before a breakout (how many)?
Can you have more than one breakout? That is on say a down day, a bar breaks out to the upside (no trade) but then the same bar or even the next bar breaks out to the down side.
Good Trading
  • #135
  • May 9, 2008 4:16am May 9, 2008 4:16am
Quoting aud
I think I need a clear definition of an inside bar breakout.

eg

1. Can you have numerous inside bars before a breakout (how many)?

2. Can you have more than one breakout? That is on say a down day, a bar breaks out to the upside (no trade) but then the same bar or even the next bar breaks out to the down side.
1. Yes. See current Aud/Usd chart. Open for Aud/Usd is 0.9403.

2. Yes.

The more examples that follow, the more questions I hope to be answered from everyone.
Attached Image
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #136
  • May 9, 2008 4:19am May 9, 2008 4:19am
Quoting aud
Can you have numerous inside bars before a breakout (how many)?
Yes you can, doesn't matter how many, the point is you can indentify a price congestion and use it to position yourself in the direction of the daily momentum with limited risk.

Quoting aud
Can you have more than one breakout? That is on say a down day, a bar breaks out to the upside (no trade) but then the same bar or even the next bar breaks out to the down side.
I think this is another area where discretion is involved, I for one take (some) trades even if the IB is broken on the other side first. But depends on the analysis.

For example right in this very moment we have an IB that was broke to the upside while we expected a break to the downside. Will you still take the right break if it happens? Depends on what you see. Probabily the best thing is to stick with clear entries, as if the IB is broken to the other side then discard the IB and wait for the next one.
Attached Image
Trading = a mirror to your human flaws. Fix them or be fixed.
  • #137
  • May 9, 2008 4:29am May 9, 2008 4:29am
Quoting jarroo
I'll try to do the same.
Hi, Jaroo,
what hour do you use as a "trading day start", the same as Peter?
8,00 GMT?
I don't say
  • #138
  • May 9, 2008 4:31am May 9, 2008 4:31am
Quoting dragosd1
Hi, Jaroo,
what hour do you use as a "trading day start", the same as Peter?
8,00 GMT?
I testing with the same as Peter. He uses 1:00 AM EST, which is 0500 GMT for me.
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #139
  • May 9, 2008 4:34am May 9, 2008 4:34am
Quoting soso
Yes you can, doesn't matter how many, the point is you can indentify a price congestion and use it to position yourself in the direction of the daily momentum with limited risk.



I think this is another area where discretion is involved, I for one take (some) trades even if the IB is broken on the other side first. But depends on the analysis.

For example right in this very moment we have an IB that was broke to the upside while we expected a break to the downside. Will you still take the right break if it happens? Depends on what you see. Probabily the best thing is to stick with clear entries, as if the IB is broken to the other side then discard the IB and wait for the next one.
Nice soso.

What is your open Price for Gbp/Usd?
Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
  • #140
  • May 9, 2008 4:37am May 9, 2008 4:37am
Quoting jarroo
Nice soso.

What is your open Price for Gbp/Usd?
I have 1.9557
Trading = a mirror to your human flaws. Fix them or be fixed.
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