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blew out another account...Just venting...

  • #1
  • First Post: Jan 24, 2007 9:47am Jan 24, 2007 9:47am
Well, I blew out yet another account. This one lasted longer though. The first one I managed to chew through in about two weeks, and I managed to keep this one for 5 months. At one point I actually tripled it in one month. But, alas, blown out again.

The reasons are pure and simple just the usual nonsense of overtrading and getting in wayy earlier than I know I should, that is, anticipating a trend instead of following one, "forcing" opportunities instead of having opportunities present themselves, cutting gains unbelievably short, and letting those losses fly. In other words, some of the same garbage that allowed me to blow up the first one.

I just had to vent.

I'm not looking for any form of sympathy, nor words of encouragement. I just wrote on this board to vent, pure and simple. I can't vent to my wife, or family or friends, because they wouldn't understand this game. Everyone here does.

Well, on to number three. I do know what the first change will be...WRITE MY RULES DOWN. They are simply being broken way too often. I'll come up with some more changes as I progress, but this should be a good start.

THE HUN.
  • #2
  • Jan 24, 2007 10:03am Jan 24, 2007 10:03am
Dear friend,

I know what you mean. I have been (everybody here has) there. I have 1.25 years trading, and I would like to share you my rules, hoping this could help you in some way.

1. At FF is very common to read threads about "guessing" tops and bottoms. And that is what it is: GUESSING! Nobody here could know that, even big-boys are often wrong, though they are Market Makers and they have data flows UNACCESSIBLE for any of us. Imagine, if they having first-hand info they get wrong sometimes... it is obviously a thing we cannot do! Well, the point is: JUST TRADE TRENDS.

2. Use stop-loss. There is no need to use a ultra-mega short stop-loss of 10 pips... sometimes 100 pips stop-loss on trendy markets (overall Carry trades ones) is ok.

3. Do not scalp

4. Do not keep looking at every second the charts. This get upon your nerves! Just decide whether to buy or sell on a TRENDY "x" currency, put a stop-loss, a limit (if you like), a trailing stop (if you want)... and forget about your trade... check it out 1 hour later maybe... that is up to you. Just check it.

5. Determine your leverage. Here you can read threads about loosing only 1% of your balance per trade. Honestly for me that is useless. If you are going to earn money that way, IS BY FAR SIMPLIER AND WISER to open a normal business. Forex attractive is LIQUIDITY, 2-WAY WINNING TRENDS AND LEVERAGE!!! If you do not use leverage is because you have a 1 million usd account, but if you do not... please use it. Use it wisely.

6. Stick to 10 crosses at max.

Hope this helps...

iiivb
  • #3
  • Jan 24, 2007 10:28am Jan 24, 2007 10:28am
Yo Bro,

this is not a encourage or some kind of it.i just want u to know..the moment you vent all of this here and hit the submit button to post this..u already grow.i think u will be fine.

Quoting thehun69
Well, I blew out yet another account. This one lasted longer though. The first one I managed to chew through in about two weeks, and I managed to keep this one for 5 months. At one point I actually tripled it in one month. But, alas, blown out again.

The reasons are pure and simple just the usual nonsense of overtrading and getting in wayy earlier than I know I should, that is, anticipating a trend instead of following one, "forcing" opportunities instead of having opportunities present themselves, cutting gains unbelievably short, and letting those losses fly. In other words, some of the same garbage that allowed me to blow up the first one.

I just had to vent.

I'm not looking for any form of sympathy, nor words of encouragement. I just wrote on this board to vent, pure and simple. I can't vent to my wife, or family or friends, because they wouldn't understand this game. Everyone here does.

Well, on to number three. I do know what the first change will be...WRITE MY RULES DOWN. They are simply being broken way too often. I'll come up with some more changes as I progress, but this should be a good start.

THE HUN.
  • #4
  • Jan 24, 2007 10:44am Jan 24, 2007 10:44am
Just open an mini account with someone like Oanda. Using a fixed risk of 2% per trade would help you protect against series of losses. Trust me I know!
  • #5
  • Jan 24, 2007 10:53am Jan 24, 2007 10:53am
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. At the end of the day, it's a matter of getting the psychology in check and following a WRITTEN plan. I have a plan of attack, but it isn't formalized in writing and by my trading screen where it should be to remind me not to donk up a trade by getting creative and not sticking to the rules.

I'm going to take a month off of trading to get some distance from it. I'll still be watching and monitoring what's going on, but will sit on the sidelines until mid Feb. This will clear my head a prevent me from coming into trades aggressively to make up for the last two meltdowns. Maybe some zen meditation would do me some good too...usually does.

At the end of the day it's about following the rules. There is a great line in Reminiscenses of a Stock Operator, where Jesse pretty much says that he would have made a ton of more money if he had only listened to himself and followed his rules. I can learn a lot from a guy that made millions in the market 80 years ago.

Write it down, write it down, write it down....my new mantra

THE HUN.
  • #6
  • Jan 24, 2007 12:00pm Jan 24, 2007 12:00pm
I would like to give my two pips worth here as well.

I also blew my account and are on a un-official sabbatical, trading with a demo (ye,ye), but with strict rules cutting out the emotions, clear entry, clear exit.

Today I had to change “the Method”. Because of the ranging market conditions on the EUR, I had to increase the timeframe and to my amazement would have made more in the longer timeframe. Point being, like you and others said…. Have a plan and follow it without emotion.

A quote from “daillist” System = Method + Money Management + Trader
  • #7
  • Jan 24, 2007 12:06pm Jan 24, 2007 12:06pm
I blew my account once, but have put money in my account 3 times because I knew (now know) I can do it. Finally finally finally I have started making money.

Here is a scenario of my mind in the beginning (and still sometimes):

The Beginning:
Wow, you can make a lot of money trading currencies. I think I can quit my job and do this for a living. 100 pips on a standard account is $1000. That is all I need a week. Looking at the weekly charts that happens all the time. Forget demo trading. Forget a super mini. Maybe I should start with a mini to see where it leads me.

Dang it. I was wrong about that one. Dang it. That one too. My $500 is now $200. Dang it. Another one. Down to $50. If only I had put stops on them I'd still have $400l. Oh well. ......... Yay I am up 20 pips. I think I'll take it because all those losers before me were up 20 before turning on me. CLICK.. Yay made $20 finally... It is about time. Crap, can you believe that? If I'd kept that one trade opened I'd be back up to $500. Why does this happen to me? If only I'd bought 10 lots on that one.

..... WTH, why do I always buy at the top. Surely it will come back up. I am not putting a stop because I know it will. Crap, I can't win for losing. Down to $50 again.

I read the forums and people are doing this for a living. What are they doing I am not doing? I give up. This is too hard.
The End....

As you can see, I think most of us think this way in the beginning. It is only natural. I'd say we all have lost big at some point.
  • #8
  • Jan 24, 2007 12:24pm Jan 24, 2007 12:24pm
OK llambert3.... have you been spying on me over the last year???

This is exactly how I blew my first account. Now I am on my second and down about 30%. I have stopped trading live and sitting on the demo and focusing on one method... and on daily charts.

I will learn to trade this in demo before I go back to the live account.

But I am learning and will not give up.... just need to learn smarter.





Quoting llambert3
I blew my account once, but have put money in my account 3 times because I knew (now know) I can do it. Finally finally finally I have started making money.

Here is a scenario of my mind in the beginning (and still sometimes):

The Beginning:
Wow, you can make a lot of money trading currencies. I think I can quit my job and do this for a living. 100 pips on a standard account is $1000. That is all I need a week. Looking at the weekly charts that happens all the time. Forget demo trading. Forget a super mini. Maybe I should start with a mini to see where it leads me.

Dang it. I was wrong about that one. Dang it. That one too. My $500 is now $200. Dang it. Another one. Down to $50. If only I had put stops on them I'd still have $400l. Oh well. ......... Yay I am up 20 pips. I think I'll take it because all those losers before me were up 20 before turning on me. CLICK.. Yay made $20 finally... It is about time. Crap, can you believe that? If I'd kept that one trade opened I'd be back up to $500. Why does this happen to me? If only I'd bought 10 lots on that one.

..... WTH, why do I always buy at the top. Surely it will come back up. I am not putting a stop because I know it will. Crap, I can't win for losing. Down to $50 again.

I read the forums and people are doing this for a living. What are they doing I am not doing? I give up. This is too hard.
The End....

As you can see, I think most of us think this way in the beginning. It is only natural. I'd say we all have lost big at some point.
  • #9
  • Jan 24, 2007 12:29pm Jan 24, 2007 12:29pm
Lol.I guess he spying every one.great job !! .all the losses on the first or second year in time, will become a funny things.not to declare that now the losses taste nice but I see it from different perspective.

Quoting webicknell
OK llambert3.... have you been spying on me over the last year???

This is exactly how I blew my first account. Now I am on my second and down about 30%. I have stopped trading live and sitting on the demo and focusing on one method... and on daily charts.

I will learn to trade this in demo before I go back to the live account.

But I am learning and will not give up.... just need to learn smarter.
  • #10
  • Jan 24, 2007 12:32pm Jan 24, 2007 12:32pm
Quoting webicknell
OK llambert3.... have you been spying on me over the last year???

This is exactly how I blew my first account. Now I am on my second and down about 30%. I have stopped trading live and sitting on the demo and focusing on one method... and on daily charts.

I will learn to trade this in demo before I go back to the live account.

But I am learning and will not give up.... just need to learn smarter.
Hee hee.. After my account blew up I stayed out an entire year. But I can say that that year off I was so relaxed because I didn't have to watch my charts anymore.. LOL

Over time it becomes more and more peacefull. I would definitely recommend this thread..
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?=10519

Steviet's journal (which is just that and not trade recommendations) are very peaceful to watch.
  • #11
  • Jan 24, 2007 12:43pm Jan 24, 2007 12:43pm
You should try using a rediculously simple system with very clear rules to develop the discipline your lacking. Its pretty hard to do when you have pattern recognition systems because there is so much ambiguity in entry/exit.

Try something like:

Buy when price moves up to a .x005, with a 20 pip stop and 20 pip take profit. The position can't be entered or closed at any other prices. Trade it on several pairs over a few weeks and you should be able to kick the bad habits. It's probably a loser system, but you never know...
  • #12
  • Jan 24, 2007 3:24pm Jan 24, 2007 3:24pm
hi everyone,

thought i'll share a little bit of my experience. I find that when I want too much such as looking to multiply my acct in a very short time, my acct will go up and down like a roller coaster ride. The biggest problem is that it tends to ride down much quicker. I've done this to the same acct several times now.

Then one day i realized i dont need to make 100% a month, i dont need to pick out those tops and bottoms, i can make a crap load by just following the trend, buy high and sell higher.

So now things have become boring and easy with a very low target of 15% a month. And since this target is easily reachable i only risk ~2% of my acct.

Despite all the discipline etc, having a good system with simple rules that has been backtested help a lot. When you realize that your random trades make less money than the system you start to follow it abit more.

I also try to stay away from discretionary analysis methods, i have found that i have the tendency to ignore signals that dont conform with my bias
  • #13
  • Jan 24, 2007 3:44pm Jan 24, 2007 3:44pm
Quoting thehun69
At one point I actually tripled it in one month.
Use less leverage. The reason why you lost your account was the exact same reason why you tripled it. You traded well for that month, you made mistakes the following months. Sure you wouldnt have tripled, or even doubled if you put less money in the market.. however.. you wouldnt have lost your account either. If my account were worth $10000 lets say, I would only be trading 1 mini lot. It doesnt seem like much, though I do believe that it is the best thing in the long run. Trading is a wealthier persons game (wealthier meaning not poor or in debt) simply because they can trade $10, $20 a pip and only risk 1-2% of their account on a trade. Yet.. they still make plenty of money $750-$1500/week trading.
The market is my nation. Traders, my family. Hello, brothers and sisters!
  • #14
  • Jan 24, 2007 4:19pm Jan 24, 2007 4:19pm
Quoting StockKJay
Use less leverage. The reason why you lost your account was the exact same reason why you tripled it. You traded well for that month, you made mistakes the following months. Sure you wouldnt have tripled, or even doubled if you put less money in the market.. however.. you wouldnt have lost your account either. If my account were worth $10000 lets say, I would only be trading 1 mini lot. It doesnt seem like much, though I do believe that it is the best thing in the long run. Trading is a wealthier persons game (wealthier meaning not poor or in debt) simply because they can trade $10, $20 a pip and only risk 1-2% of their account on a trade. Yet.. they still make plenty of money $750-$1500/week trading.
I echo what StockJay has said here - my thoughts in a nutshell. We are small fish in a big pond (a minnow in my case lol) but must use the same money management techniques as the pros.

It's great to say that you doubled your account in a month etc etc but inevitably the same money management style will also blow your account at some point.

Some great advice here and as a newbie myself I'm maybe not qualified to impart my advice. What I do know though is that I am now consistently making anything from 8% to 15% a month which to me is fine. I just look at where my account balance will be in 3 or 4 years being that consistent and then I too will be able to trade for multiple dollars a pip whilst only risking a small % of my account.

Kind Regards
Steve
  • #15
  • Jan 24, 2007 4:43pm Jan 24, 2007 4:43pm
Don't let it get to ya. Just shake it off. Everything you said is right on the money. You know what you need to do to improve.
Mr. Trend
  • #16
  • Jan 24, 2007 4:51pm Jan 24, 2007 4:51pm
Been there, done that too -- two accounts blown. Then I discovered the joys of doing less. Now, I make a very nice living doing only swing trades (average hold time 3.5 days) on the GBPUSD and the GBPJPY using just one setup.

I make less than 150 trades a year and never put more than 4% of equity into any one trade and still make several hundred percent on total equity a year. These two pairs move so nicely that there's no need for me to trade anything else.

I avoid any EUR pair like the plague -- much too whippy for my taste.
  • #17
  • Jan 24, 2007 4:58pm Jan 24, 2007 4:58pm
Quoting scjohn
Been there, done that too -- two accounts blown. Then I discovered the joys of doing less. Now, I make a very nice living doing only swing trades (average hold time 3.5 days) on the GBPUSD and the GBPJPY using just one setup.

I make less than 150 trades a year and never put more than 4% of equity into any one trade and still make several hundred percent on total equity a year. These two pairs move so nicely that there's no need for me to trade anything else.

I avoid any EUR pair like the plague -- much too whippy for my taste.
Amen brother. EURUSD sucks. I hate that pair.
Mr. Trend
  • #18
  • Jan 24, 2007 5:04pm Jan 24, 2007 5:04pm
Quoting llambert3
I blew my account once, but have put money in my account 3 times because I knew (now know) I can do it. Finally finally finally I have started making money.

Here is a scenario of my mind in the beginning (and still sometimes):

The Beginning:
Wow, you can make a lot of money trading currencies. I think I can quit my job and do this for a living. 100 pips on a standard account is $1000. That is all I need a week. Looking at the weekly charts that happens all the time. Forget demo trading. Forget a super mini. Maybe I should start with a mini to see where it leads me.

Dang it. I was wrong about that one. Dang it. That one too. My $500 is now $200. Dang it. Another one. Down to $50. If only I had put stops on them I'd still have $400l. Oh well. ......... Yay I am up 20 pips. I think I'll take it because all those losers before me were up 20 before turning on me. CLICK.. Yay made $20 finally... It is about time. Crap, can you believe that? If I'd kept that one trade opened I'd be back up to $500. Why does this happen to me? If only I'd bought 10 lots on that one.

..... WTH, why do I always buy at the top. Surely it will come back up. I am not putting a stop because I know it will. Crap, I can't win for losing. Down to $50 again.

I read the forums and people are doing this for a living. What are they doing I am not doing? I give up. This is too hard.
The End....

As you can see, I think most of us think this way in the beginning. It is only natural. I'd say we all have lost big at some point.
Well said! I've been there and done that. How do you get past it?

Never give up, never quit. Ever.
Never stop learning, never stop growing. Ever.
Never stop believing in yourself, never surrender to doubt. Ever.

Dial
sxaxlxvxaxtxixoxnxbxyxgxrxaxcxexdxoxtxoxrxgx
  • #19
  • Jan 24, 2007 5:13pm Jan 24, 2007 5:13pm
Hi,

Nearly blown mine today, likely will finish it off tommorow at this rate, I know what to do how to do it, but after the 2weeks ish off for xmas I've been unable to get my groove on and falling back into old habits.

But if I do blow it out it's taken me 7months and over 300trades, previously I was blowing one out in 20 - 30trades and 1 month so HUGE improvement, and only £100 so not the end of the world.

Hard game, 98% fail and give up, don't give up and although you might keep failing, you've got a chance of being in the magic 2%.


FEAR is what keeps me from winning, unable to enter with the trend, despite having my entry very well defined but no issues trying to pick bottoms despite them always killing me, but atleast I'm realising this more.


The 1 trade I made correctly, also failed which never helps and always has a chance of doing, just can't get a break.


Good luck, keep plugging and keep the amounts real !! ( Ie Sub £100 GBP to blow out )
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #20
  • Jan 24, 2007 5:24pm Jan 24, 2007 5:24pm
Ladies and Gents... you don't blow out an account until you're at least knocking out five figures.

These little $500-5000 "blowups" are nothing.

When you drop five figures (and I'm talking, well into five figures), and you experience that white, pasty, sick, numb feeling, then, and only then, have you experienced "blowing up an account"...

At least, that's what I'm told...
Mr. Trend
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