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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #1,781
  • Mar 13, 2008 12:02pm Mar 13, 2008 12:02pm
Quoting matias
hi, during new which is the spread in EFX?. Thanks.
I would prefer other traders who actually have live accounts with us answer this question...only because it seems to validate the truth more...but to answer your question -

Depending on the volatility of the announcement, I feel our spreads and execution remain very reasonable for trading. Of course, if the news is unexpected or way off base, then you might find that the market behaves differently then it typically would during news.
  • #1,782
  • Mar 13, 2008 1:29pm Mar 13, 2008 1:29pm
Quoting matias
hi, during new which is the spread in EFX?. Thanks.
Matias,

EFX / MBT is adequate for trading news announcements. Spreads widen and then go back to normal in a very short time span. That's to answer your question.
Now, I will try to make an analogy here.
I personally believe you can teach a person to drive a stick (manual transmission) car much faster and better IF the person understands the basic mechanics of manual vs. automatic transmission. Once you understand why you need to change gears and what happens inside the transmission, you will be a far better driver of a manual vehicle. The same logic/principle applies to understanding trading on ECN platform vs. trading with a market maker/dealing desk. You must understand what and how orders get filled to fully comprehend the differences and advantages. This thread offers countless explanations of ECN trading.


Now back to trading news on MBT. NEVER enter or exit with a market order, you WILL get slipped (if you feel like asking why you will get slipped, please read the paragraph above). Be prepared for having your order not being filled at all or only partially when you go in with a limit order. In general, DON"T trade the news period. Chances that you will loose money are pretty much the same as you NOT winning the lottery especially if you are new to trading.
  • #1,783
  • Mar 13, 2008 4:48pm Mar 13, 2008 4:48pm
Many thanks for the prompt replies
Leonardo Follower
  • #1,784
  • Mar 13, 2008 6:14pm Mar 13, 2008 6:14pm
Quoting fiberangel
Matias,

EFX / MBT is adequate for trading news announcements. Spreads widen and then go back to normal in a very short time span. That's to answer your question.
Now, I will try to make an analogy here.
I personally believe you can teach a person to drive a stick (manual transmission) car much faster and better IF the person understands the basic mechanics of manual vs. automatic transmission. Once you understand why you need to change gears and what happens inside the transmission, you will be a far better driver of a manual vehicle. The same logic/principle applies to understanding trading on ECN platform vs. trading with a market maker/dealing desk. You must understand what and how orders get filled to fully comprehend the differences and advantages. This thread offers countless explanations of ECN trading.


Now back to trading news on MBT. NEVER enter or exit with a market order, you WILL get slipped (if you feel like asking why you will get slipped, please read the paragraph above). Be prepared for having your order not being filled at all or only partially when you go in with a limit order. In general, DON"T trade the news period. Chances that you will loose money are pretty much the same as you NOT winning the lottery especially if you are new to trading.
Thanks fiberangel -
  • #1,785
  • Mar 13, 2008 6:52pm Mar 13, 2008 6:52pm
I have to give credit when credit is due. I just saw a 13.5 pip spread on Dukascopy while the spread on EFX was -1. Don't even get me started on the differences in book depth..

http://i27.tinypic.com/t5hv20.png

Granted it was a very short-term imbalance, and the spreads shortly evened out on both ECNs. Nonetheless, rather eye-opening..
  • #1,786
  • Mar 13, 2008 10:06pm Mar 13, 2008 10:06pm
Another -1 on the eur/usd just now, you guys are just handing out money tonight.

Justin, is this normal? Shouldn't the ECN be auto-matching these crossed prices?

http://i25.tinypic.com/2ps24xx.png
  • #1,787
  • Mar 13, 2008 10:52pm Mar 13, 2008 10:52pm
TKGB,

were you able to execute on that inverted spread or did you even try. if this happens a lot it wouldnt be hard to pick it with a BB.
  • #1,788
  • Mar 13, 2008 11:03pm Mar 13, 2008 11:03pm
Quoting fxtrader42
TKGB,

were you able to execute on that inverted spread or did you even try. if this happens a lot it wouldnt be hard to pick it with a BB.
Unfortunately no, the account is unfunded. I'm in the process of setting up some accounts over there. I'll give it a try when they're online.

Still hoping they can lower standard commissions. But if they can give me some -1 spreads a few times a day, perhaps I'll stop complaining about the rates.
  • #1,789
  • Mar 13, 2008 11:49pm Mar 13, 2008 11:49pm
me too - and i would be interested to hear what you have to say about the company after a month or two of live trading. Also, if the inverted spreads continue... i have a BB for those little gifts already. They used to be more common.
  • #1,790
  • Mar 14, 2008 1:21pm Mar 14, 2008 1:21pm
Quoting Trader KGB
Another -1 on the eur/usd just now, you guys are just handing out money tonight.

Justin, is this normal? Shouldn't the ECN be auto-matching these crossed prices?

My understanding is that the banks don't trade with each other via MBT/TDFX. All the trade executions are

STP: "retail trader <--> bank"
or
ECN: "retail trader <--> other retail trader"

So, their offers may occasionally cause and inversion of spread. It should be tradeable, the matching engine would still work for you.
  • #1,791
  • Mar 16, 2008 5:47pm Mar 16, 2008 5:47pm
Is ethics the real reason? How would you know whether the money I wired is not a debt either?

Quoting jleblang
Hi richy ~

Though I don't disagree that funding with a Credit card would make things much easier for clients, we do not fully believe allowing people to place debt on themselves to trade is the most ethical way of doing business. I realize not everyone would be in this situation with their credit card, but we have to think about those who are.

Kind Regards,
"People sometimes mistake luck with skill"
  • #1,792
  • Mar 16, 2008 8:24pm Mar 16, 2008 8:24pm
Quoting 20pips
Is ethics the real reason? How would you know whether the money I wired is not a debt either?
Richy ~

Keep in mind that we are regulated by several entities, including the NFA, but also the SEC and FINRA. It is our obligation to do two things that conflict with accepting credit cards or Paypal:

  1. Make sure, to the best of our knowledge, that customers aren’t borrowing money to trade. Obviously, using a CC is a pretty clear indication that the money is being borrowed.
  2. Abide by all Federal Money Laundering laws, which currently means that we cannot accept funds that don’t come from a like-name account, which rules out Paypal.

With the credit cards, there are also issues that are an offshoot of laundering. If you were using your credit card to put money into your account, are you making a purchase, or is that a cash advance?

  • #1,793
  • Mar 16, 2008 11:53pm Mar 16, 2008 11:53pm
Quoting matias
hi, during new which is the spread in EFX?. Thanks.
Today is not exactly news time but markets are highly volatile. Here is a random screenshot I took few minutes ago. Usually spreads on efx-mbt are much better during usual news time than today.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: efx.JPG Size: 83 KB
  • #1,794
  • Mar 17, 2008 2:49am Mar 17, 2008 2:49am
Quoting good
Today is not exactly news time but markets are highly volatile. Here is a random screenshot I took few minutes ago. Usually spreads on efx-mbt are much better during usual news time than today.
today's spread for mbt sucks! at one time,the most liquid pair(eur/usd) quote me 4-5pips ,let alone all the yen pairs,it quote me as wide as 10-20pips,the exotic pairs like eur/aud got a super wide spread like 25pips fr time to time...is this mbt(ecn) style of trading platform? what happens to the tight spread???
  • #1,795
  • Mar 17, 2008 3:12am Mar 17, 2008 3:12am
Quoting fxking
today's spread for mbt sucks! at one time,the most liquid pair(eur/usd) quote me 4-5pips ,let alone all the yen pairs,it quote me as wide as 10-20pips,the exotic pairs like eur/aud got a super wide spread like 25pips fr time to time...is this mbt(ecn) style of trading platform? what happens to the tight spread???
To be fair, the spreads have been exceedingly wide across IB & Dukascopy tonight too, just as wide as MBT. I've never seen Oanda clean house with their spreads like this before. Oanda has had 4 on CAD/JPY and 8 on GBP/CHF all night, when these 3 ECNs are quoting double to triple those spreads!
  • #1,796
  • Mar 17, 2008 6:24am Mar 17, 2008 6:24am
Its the same on Hotspot, its not EFX, its 'the market'.
  • #1,797
  • Mar 17, 2008 8:56am Mar 17, 2008 8:56am
Market was def crazy last night. I was trading GBPJPY all night and had a spread of 6 to 8 sometimes as high as 10 but that was rare. Not sure what everyone else saw?
  • #1,798
  • Edited 10:13am Mar 17, 2008 9:14am | Edited 10:13am
Yes, unusually wide... Here is a snapshot of calculated average spreads at MBT from Sunday open till now (2:10pm GMT Monday).

Unusually narrow, too, at times...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: mbt-spread-averages.PNG Size: 101 KB
Attached Image
  • #1,799
  • Mar 17, 2008 9:48am Mar 17, 2008 9:48am
Just got off the phone with someone who used to work with MBTrading and now works for another firm. The interesting thing is, he told me that MB runs an A book and a B book. He asked me not to give anymore information so thus he leaves me with little proof. However, I do not doubt that they do run a book. I am sure Justin will say that they dont but I would love to know if it is true, maybe I should apply for a job. Like I have said in all of my posts, I dont really care if firms do this as long as they have low spreads and great execution but they should atleast admit to it. However, considering MB says that they match, client to client or client to bank this would be very interesting. If they run a book of any kind then they dont do any of that on a constant basis. I will try to get more information but I would love to know what other on this thread think.

All the best
  • #1,800
  • Mar 17, 2008 10:04am Mar 17, 2008 10:04am
Quoting fxtrader42
Just got off the phone with someone who used to work with MBTrading and now works for another firm. The interesting thing is, he told me that MB runs an A book and a B book. He asked me not to give anymore information so thus he leaves me with little proof. However, I do not doubt that they do run a book. I am sure Justin will say that they dont but I would love to know if it is true, maybe I should apply for a job. Like I have said in all of my posts, I dont really care if firms do this as long as they have low spreads and great execution but they should atleast admit to it. However, considering MB says that they match, client to client or client to bank this would be very interesting. If they run a book of any kind then they dont do any of that on a constant basis. I will try to get more information but I would love to know what other on this thread think.

All the best
Interesting point. I don't know how it exactly works, but when I think of it, I think all retail ECN brokers can be market makers and all non-ecn brokers can deliver your order directly to interbank if they feel a trader is consistently profitable. Since most retail traders lose, it would be silly for ECN brokers to not trade against them and give all that easy money away to the interbank. I am sure these retail ecn brokers keep a close watch on how a particular trader is performing.
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