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Trading with Point and Figure

  • #21
  • Jan 31, 2008 2:25am Jan 31, 2008 2:25am
EURJPY
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  • #22
  • Feb 4, 2008 6:24am Feb 4, 2008 6:24am
CHFJPY
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  • #23
  • Feb 21, 2008 6:52am Feb 21, 2008 6:52am
apfx:

What happened to your blog? I really liked seeing your P&F charts--learned a lot. Looks like someone took it over with "debt consolidation" ads and crap. A major loss, in my opinion, since no one else seems to be doing much with point and figure.

Ed
Indicators are to Price as Newspapers are to Bloomberg.
  • #24
  • Feb 21, 2008 5:51pm Feb 21, 2008 5:51pm
Quoting boiseboy
apfx:

What happened to your blog? I really liked seeing your P&F charts--learned a lot. Looks like someone took it over with "debt consolidation" ads and crap. A major loss, in my opinion, since no one else seems to be doing much with point and figure.

Ed
Hello boiseboy,

I messed up things a little bit trying to organize snapshots folders, and the bottom line is that all the old pics are lost.
But thats not to worry because pf patterns are so frequent that it will populate the blog in no time.
I'm having some trouble with this thread instead. I need to move the pictures out of here because it is stretching this thread in length unnecessarily. But I can not find an edit button formy earlier posts.
  • #25
  • Feb 21, 2008 6:26pm Feb 21, 2008 6:26pm
Great to hear; I'll be watching for the return of the blog--if you can manage to wrest it from the grasp of the cybersquatters, that is.

As for the difficulty with the thread, I think a relatively new feature of FF is to allow only the initial post to be infinitely editable, and all the other posts have a time limit for editing. I believe that is to keep people from erasing posts that either they regret (in the morning ), or right before they begin their own website, signal service and/or mentoring program*

You might enlist the help of Twee to clean up the thread, but from my point of view, it looks perfectly fine and I'm not sure why you need to do something about it.

Regardless, it'll be great to follow your trades again.

Ed


*see 4DLuv's thread at Oanda, Bubble's thread on Forex-TSD, and Bunnygirl's thread at StrategyBuilderFX...or not, since all their posts are erased.
Indicators are to Price as Newspapers are to Bloomberg.
  • #26
  • Feb 22, 2008 4:09am Feb 22, 2008 4:09am
to APFX : what software do you use for P&F ? (free would be best )
  • #27
  • Edited 4:55pm Feb 22, 2008 4:04pm | Edited 4:55pm
Quoting boiseboy
Great to hear; I'll be watching for the return of the blog--if you can manage to wrest it from the grasp of the cybersquatters, that is.
Hello Ed,
the Blog is back again. The new URL is http://patternexplorer.blogspot.com and the link in my signature points right at it. I must worn you that I'll be experimenting for a short while with the blog themes so if you see that the blog looks different every 5 minutes do not worry, It is only me playing web developer.
I promise I'll be careful not to loose any content again.

Quoting melpheos
to APFX : what software do you use for P&F ? (free would be best )
I'm using AmiBroker, price: $259.
The SW is simply outstanding.

http://www.amibroker.com/
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/
http://www.amibroker.org/userkb/

Aron
  • #28
  • Feb 24, 2008 4:00pm Feb 24, 2008 4:00pm
Apfx,

How are you feeding AB with forex data?

I have AB also.

Cheers
  • #29
  • Feb 24, 2008 4:17pm Feb 24, 2008 4:17pm
Hi Apfx,

Nice to see another P&F fan. There is a nice atricle on P&F for Forex in this month's Technical Analysis of Stocks and Commodities magazine.

Your blog is a masterpiece!

Rick
  • #30
  • Feb 24, 2008 5:39pm Feb 24, 2008 5:39pm
Quoting BentRod
Apfx,

How are you feeding AB with forex data?

Cheers
There is a MT3 data and AFL plugin . Uses MT3 API and interfaces with any broker still supporting MT3. (if you like, I can email it to you)
You can have FX data form Interactive Brokers using IB data plugin or from data vendors such Esignal and IQFeed.

Quoting rmyers
Hi Apfx,
Nice to see another P&F fan. There is a nice article on P&F for Forex in this month's Technical Analysis of Stocks and Commodities magazine.
Your blog is a masterpiece!
Rick, thanks for the info and for the kind words (I'm blushing now).
The blog is far form being a masterpiece but I'm happy that you like it.

Aron
  • #31
  • Feb 24, 2008 6:07pm Feb 24, 2008 6:07pm
Apfx,
Thanks.

Check your PM.
  • #32
  • Feb 25, 2008 4:29am Feb 25, 2008 4:29am
Hello,apfx!
Thanks for this good thread. I'm also make XO analysis, but i make it usually in Omega 2000.
And what plugin, or indicator for AMI do you use for XO chatrs?
Thanks!
Per aspera ad astra
  • #33
  • Feb 25, 2008 4:46am Feb 25, 2008 4:46am
APFX and other point and figure enthusiasts

Hi I am reading Jerumy du Plessis book the definitive guide to point and figure and am trying to understand how volatility influences box size and how to work this out especially for shorter term trading I use Bollinger bands on the point and figure charts to define a bollinger squeeze and pnf patterns or basic PNF signals for breakouts anyone else have views on timescales and methods of point and figure trading in forex?

Divad (UK)
  • #34
  • Feb 25, 2008 4:50pm Feb 25, 2008 4:50pm
What is everyones experience using Point and Figure? Seems like an interesting idea, to concentrate on price, and not time.
  • #35
  • Feb 26, 2008 5:25am Feb 26, 2008 5:25am
Quoting Ihor
Hello,apfx!
And what plugin, or indicator for AMI do you use for XO chatrs?
Thanks!
Amibroker does not have an "official" point and figure plugin but PF charts are coded as anyother custom indicator. I have attached the formula .

Quoting divad
APFX and other point and figure enthusiasts
anyone else have views on timescales and methods of point and figure trading in forex?
Divad (UK)
My method:
1. Scan the maket for Patterns: scanner looks for incomplete and complete patterns in a range form 5 - 50 pip.
2. Resolution Check: establish whether the box size fits the timeframe. I do not have a preset box / interval parameters but a quick "Does chart look good? " check and ATR do the job pretty well.
3. Identify any other entry/ exit levels within the main pattern: Switch to a lower interval, and with a scroll of a mouse wheel modify the box size and look for SR Levels and additional price patterns (double tops and bottoms are not included in the primary scan) that would validate the main pattern.
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Attached File(s)
File Type: txt P&F chart formula.txt   1 KB | 1,479 downloads
  • #36
  • Feb 26, 2008 11:25am Feb 26, 2008 11:25am
hi apfx
Thanks for the info.

Do you trade all your signals? Are you in the UK as the times would suggest GMT?

I like PnF because of the easy way to set stops and targets do you use the next opposite signal for your stop and vertical counts for targets?

Thanks again

Divad (UK)
  • #37
  • Feb 27, 2008 3:19am Feb 27, 2008 3:19am
Quoting divad
hi apfx
Do you trade all your signals? Are you in the UK as the times would suggest GMT?
I like PnF because of the easy way to set stops and targets do you use the next opposite signal for your stop and vertical counts for targets?
Divad (UK)
Hello Divad,

I filter signals based on the following criteria:

avoid list:
signals against the trend. (I actually look for a signal failure)
signals before major news releases.
signals in an overall unclear pattern.

preferred list:
signals related to fundamentals (at the time of news release and the next day)
signals generated in major SR zone.

I'm located in Albania and timezone is CET.

As far as concerns the exits and targets:
I try to mange positions by adjusting the stops as the trade unwinds.
  • #38
  • Mar 13, 2008 6:37am Mar 13, 2008 6:37am
Quoting apfx
Thanks David.

I do not use any preset value for box size. But If you use a very small box size the PF chart would show nothing but the chart bars in "X" and "O".
I find ATR() to be a good reference.
BoxSize = any_value > * ATR(free to chose period) / reverse.
Originally the price comes in form of ticks , if compressed based on time period you get Bars if compressed based on movement you get PF.
If there are no tick data available Box Size is adjusted by time frame not the other way around.
Hi apfx,
would you please be kind to explain your way of adjusting the box size? I don't understand "any_value" > ATR. Does that mean that any value must be bigger than the ATR? Or did I miss something

As it was always said by the books the reversal size is usually set to 3. Do you agree with that or does it depend on the currencies you are trading? If so, how much of a reversal would you suggest?

I'm sorry for so many questions - glad to see some more PnF forex traders...

Currently I use a plug-in for MT4, which I had to buy. So don't ask me for uploading. It's forbidden.
On 1min my box size is 5 with a reversal of 3. It provides good signals - but as always: it could be much better. And I'd like to learn, too.
Attached is an indicator for MT4, unfortunately it's crap. You can choose box size only, but reversal stays at 1. Yes, ONE.
If there's someone who's able to tweak this thing it could be a useful and cheap tool for anybody who's interested in PnF with MT4.

I don't recommend this broker! www.fxpro.com
But their mt platform offers ALL crosses, indices like DAX, DOW, S&P, some futures and stocks forming the dow jones 30. Gold and Silver, too. There you have a big variety for experimenting with PnF.

Greetings!
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 X_O_serg153xo.mq4   5 KB | 1,327 downloads
42
  • #39
  • Mar 13, 2008 10:30am Mar 13, 2008 10:30am
Hello FreWheelin,


Box size and reversal parameters determine the min reversal amount that is also the min height of X or O column.
If the PF column min height is set less than the ATR,

that is:
ATR = 10 pip;
BoxSize= 2 pip;
Reversal = 3 box;

The chart risks not to show any min reversals since the PF chart is built based on highs and lows of the bars an the reversal measures the distance of the high from the previous low and vice versa, almost any column will be higher than 2*3 = 6 pip.

Therefore: BoxSize > ATR/reversal.

Secondly , all PnF patterns are breakout patterns and the box size will determine also what constitutes a breakout signal.
Setting the box size too small you are more exposed to false breakouts. ATR measures the volatility so it is helpful in this case as well.

As far as concerns revesal amount in num boxes, I use 3. But can be used any number of boxes. It has no relation to the instrument traded and does not affect the PF formations.


Happy Trading.
  • #40
  • Edited Mar 14, 2008 3:35pm Mar 13, 2008 7:10pm | Edited Mar 14, 2008 3:35pm
Quoting Freewheelin
Hi apfx,
On 1min my box size is 5 with a reversal of 3. It provides good signals - but as always: it could be much better. And I'd like to learn, too.
Here is a reference table for min box size settings for time frames ranging for 5min to 1 Day. Data length = 1Year

Note on calculations:

for each bar in history and each timeframe:
H = high of the bar;
L= low of the bar;
H1 = previous bar high;
L1 = previous bar low;
H2 = high of 2 bars earlier;
L2 = low of 2 bars earlier;


1. measure any possible reversal size (in pips).
if( H1 >= H2 )
reversal = H1 - L ;
if( L1 <= L2 )
reversal = H - L1;


2. Establish a level for minimal XO column height that meets the condition: 80% of every 100 reversals are within this level.

columnHeight = percentile ( reversal, 100 periods, 80%)

3. Get the box size,
BoxSize = columnHeight/3;


I hope this helps.

Aron.
Attached File(s)
File Type: xls box size.xls   19 KB | 1,360 downloads
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