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Inside Bar Trading Technique

  • #141
  • Feb 18, 2008 6:09am Feb 18, 2008 6:09am
Quoting brisvegus
hi damonl and others. the new indicator you put on the first page looks interesting. one day, someone will come up with a system where you sell when the blue dot appears and buy when the red dot appears. wouldnt that be worth some money to sell. anyway i am going pretty well doing this, havnt had any large break outs yet but plenty of 40-100 pip results. see ya later. steve
hang tough....the breakouts are coming as there is too much consolidation at the moment.

Keep in touch......
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #142
  • Feb 18, 2008 6:18am Feb 18, 2008 6:18am
Quoting ademac
Here is the the Gann 3 Day Low Stop.pdf

I use it to keep me in the trend and it works quite well. The one thing i will say about it is that you must be willing to give up some profits to use it.

This is a trend trailing exit method so you will need a trend for it to work properly.

Enjoy
Ademac
The trailing stop I've been employing in this basic bask testing is essentially a Gann 3 day low stop then. Counted 2 bars back from the current bar (not counting IBs), and placed the stop at the low of the two for a long trade. However I never moved stop loss beyond the hard stop loss at the opposite end of the IB, regardless of the 2 bar count low. Also never brought stop to B/E automatically when in profit (except when there was a reversal dot and bar was in profit).

Just did an additional basic backtest on a USDCHF. I chose this pair because it was somewhat different from the others: first half of 2007 it was somewhat ranging and very volatile on the daily time frame, which presented some new challanges. However by June 2007 it turned into a very steeply trending market until about December. Here are the results:

USDCHF Jan 2007 - present, Daily TF: 23 profitable trades (9 trades profit>100 pips, 14 trades profit<100pips or BE) and 16 negative trades. I estimate that negative trades averaged 50 pips. The indicator filtered out 11 trades that would have turned out negative.

Although the win/loss ratio wasn't great, this still managed to catch the huge movers: 4 trades which averaged about 600 pips each. Although I didn't calculate the exact numbers, I estimate that thanks to these 4 huge trades this system would have been good for about 2200 pips over the past 14 months, roughly 150 pips month. Not great, but not bad either on a tough pair for IBs.
  • #143
  • Feb 18, 2008 6:26am Feb 18, 2008 6:26am
Quoting niner49
The trailing stop I've been employing in this basic bask testing is essentially a Gann 3 day low stop then. Counted 2 bars back from the current bar (not counting IBs), and placed the stop at the low of the two for a long trade. However I never moved stop loss beyond the hard stop loss at the opposite end of the IB, regardless of the 2 bar count low. Also never brought stop to B/E automatically when in profit (except when there was a reversal dot and bar was in profit).

Just did an additional basic backtest on a USDCHF. I chose this pair because it was somewhat different from the others: first half of 2007 it was somewhat ranging and very volatile on the daily time frame, which presented some new challanges. However by June 2007 it turned into a very steeply trending market until about December. Here are the results:

USDCHF Jan 2007 - present, Daily TF: 23 profitable trades (9 trades profit>100 pips, 14 trades profit<100pips or BE) and 16 negative trades. I estimate that negative trades averaged 50 pips. The indicator filtered out 11 trades that would have turned out negative.

Although the win/loss ratio wasn't great, this still managed to catch the huge movers: 4 trades which averaged about 600 pips each. Although I didn't calculate the exact numbers, I estimate that thanks to these 4 huge trades this system would have been good for about 2200 pips over the past 14 months, roughly 150 pips month. Not great, but not bad either on a tough pair for IBs.
You are fantasitic my 49er fan friend. One question, during those big runs, did you add on additional Inside bar trades that would have come available during these times or did your test just include the 1st one?

I'm off to work.......catch ya tonight.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #144
  • Feb 18, 2008 11:58am Feb 18, 2008 11:58am
Quoting damonl
You are fantasitic my 49er fan friend. One question, during those big runs, did you add on additional Inside bar trades that would have come available during these times or did your test just include the 1st one?

I'm off to work.......catch ya tonight.
Yes, I included all the IBs inside the large runs. However if there were two IBs side by site, I only traded off the the most recent.

I quickly went through and made a more detailed visual of my testing, if someone wants to audit me. One note, I use a 10 pip buffer above/below the bar high/low, which I've found keeps me in some good trades (i.e. It came in handy on Oct 29). This obviously cuts into total profits, which I haven't calculate for now. Also some of the trades I put to B/E could have gone a bit negative, but not much.

So in total during this period there were 14 trades: 9 positive, 4 neutral and 1 negative. Adding all the pips together it comes to profit 2352 pips. In reality it would probably be a little less, something around 2100 counting for the 10 pip buffer and potential negative trades. But still, if you took a trade at the top on Aug 16 and just held until the bottom on Nov 23, you would have made "only" 1328 pips.

Now I realize this is an exceptional situation that happened to fit the strategy nearly perfectly.... really I just wanted to get a visual out there for someone to catch anything I may have missed.
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  • #145
  • Feb 18, 2008 4:35pm Feb 18, 2008 4:35pm
Quoting niner49
Yes, I included all the IBs inside the large runs. However if there were two IBs side by site, I only traded off the the most recent.

I quickly went through and made a more detailed visual of my testing, if someone wants to audit me. One note, I use a 10 pip buffer above/below the bar high/low, which I've found keeps me in some good trades (i.e. It came in handy on Oct 29). This obviously cuts into total profits, which I haven't calculate for now. Also some of the trades I put to B/E could have gone a bit negative, but not much.

So in total during this period there were 14 trades: 9 positive, 4 neutral and 1 negative. Adding all the pips together it comes to profit 2352 pips. In reality it would probably be a little less, something around 2100 counting for the 10 pip buffer and potential negative trades. But still, if you took a trade at the top on Aug 16 and just held until the bottom on Nov 23, you would have made "only" 1328 pips.

Now I realize this is an exceptional situation that happened to fit the strategy nearly perfectly.... really I just wanted to get a visual out there for someone to catch anything I may have missed.
Good work......

Since I play with small lot sizes, I would have placed orders at duplicate concurrent inside bars. Just wait and see what happens when we add some of the other entries
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #146
  • Feb 18, 2008 5:36pm Feb 18, 2008 5:36pm
niner49. excellent work. that chart you posted has at least confirmed im doing things correctly. nice one. steve
  • #147
  • Feb 18, 2008 7:58pm Feb 18, 2008 7:58pm
I have noticed something about Silver Trend......It will repaint itself.

I was wondering how it could be spot on 100% of the time.

It doesn't do it all the time, but it can be wrong and when it is, it will repaint latter on down the road.

I will have to watch this and see how to properly incorporate this into the strategy, as I still like what I have seen so far. Hopefully this will still work out.

I thought this indicator looked to dead on all the time. We'll see how things go from here.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #148
  • Feb 18, 2008 9:46pm Feb 18, 2008 9:46pm
hi damonl. the indicator if you put on a 5 min chart, will appear sometimes out of nowhere 2 bars back. but really, it is just to confirm that we are going with the trend i think. if it was so accurate, we could have traded dot to dot. now that would be something to get excited over.
  • #149
  • Feb 18, 2008 10:43pm Feb 18, 2008 10:43pm
I like this thread Thank you so much to the owner of the thread
I want to add something that interesting to know when trade with "hikkake pattern" in Japanese language term
But it look not balance when discuss about insidebar and forget the cousin of insidebar lol
the pattern name is outsidebar i'm sure you all know about it .... insidebar and outsidebar is a great and harmony tool



HikkakeTrader
  • #150
  • Edited 7:49am Feb 19, 2008 6:34am | Edited 7:49am
hi guys. just set of 2 mini lots on the g/j sell brekout. 1st trade take profit acheive of 150 pips. has retraces a bout half way but im moving to breakeven and using this second mini as a sacrificial lamb and staying in till the death. hopefully it will be still open in october. hehehe steve also in usd/cad short as well. 2 positions plus 10. better than nothing. just hehe

oh well usd/cad just got nasty and my gj trade lasting till october will be lucky to last 2 hours. cheers guys.
  • #151
  • Feb 19, 2008 9:50am Feb 19, 2008 9:50am
Quoting damonl
I have noticed something about Silver Trend......It will repaint itself.

I was wondering how it could be spot on 100% of the time.

It doesn't do it all the time, but it can be wrong and when it is, it will repaint latter on down the road.

I will have to watch this and see how to properly incorporate this into the strategy, as I still like what I have seen so far. Hopefully this will still work out.

I thought this indicator looked to dead on all the time. We'll see how things go from here.
Good catch damon, like most things in life it was a bit too good to be true haha. Ill keep an eye on it as well.
  • #152
  • Feb 19, 2008 5:28pm Feb 19, 2008 5:28pm
Quoting brisvegus
hi guys. just set of 2 mini lots on the g/j sell brekout. 1st trade take profit acheive of 150 pips. has retraces a bout half way but im moving to breakeven and using this second mini as a sacrificial lamb and staying in till the death. hopefully it will be still open in october. hehehe steve also in usd/cad short as well. 2 positions plus 10. better than nothing. just hehe

oh well usd/cad just got nasty and my gj trade lasting till october will be lucky to last 2 hours. cheers guys.
Yes...UCAD went south, but I think we need to only trade with the trend. The question was finding how to define the trend.

I think I have a great solution and will post it soon.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #153
  • Feb 19, 2008 5:36pm Feb 19, 2008 5:36pm
Quoting Hikkake
I like this thread Thank you so much to the owner of the thread
I want to add something that interesting to know when trade with "hikkake pattern" in Japanese language term
But it look not balance when discuss about insidebar and forget the cousin of insidebar lol
the pattern name is outsidebar i'm sure you all know about it .... insidebar and outsidebar is a great and harmony tool



HikkakeTrader

Hello Hikkake....You are exactly right. The outsidebar. I actually like to think of the outside bar as a bullish/bearish divergent bar and yes, it is also another entry. I trade this as well as an additional entry postion in the trend. It is indeed a big part of my multiple entry trading strategy.

I plan to give this as a thread as to how I trade it in the near future.

Thanks and keep in touch.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #154
  • Feb 19, 2008 5:48pm Feb 19, 2008 5:48pm
Trading the Inside Bar can be extremly powerful. I have other entries I would like to share with you all, but there has been one thing missing.

Up until now we have always placed a trade on either side of the Inside Bar, but I think it would be more efficient if we just placed a trade with the current trend.

I found and indicator which is located on the 1st page of this thread called Silver Trend. This looks really good except that it can repaint itself at times. I didn't see this as a problem except that it could give false signals. I needed a way to eliminate these false signals.

I have found two possible solutions, but will only present the one here for now.

We will continue to use the Silver Trend (ST) and we will now add the Awesome Oscillator (AO). I think this will eliminate many of the repaint issues, becuse now when (ST) gives us a signal we have to wait for confirmation from the AO, giving the repaint time to happen if it is going to.

Here how it works.

We will not consider a short IB trade until the ST dot is still above any bar at its close and the AO has closed in Red. Sometimes the AO and ST will trigger at the same time, and other times we will wait up to 4 bars for the AO to give us a signal before we consider any short trades.

We will not consider a long IB trade until the ST dot is still above any bar at its close and the AO has closed in Green. Sometimes the AO and ST will trigger at the same time, and other times we will wait up to 4 bars for the AO to give us a signal before we consider any long trades.

Of course, if you have your own trend finding method you can use that, and please share it here with us. Regardless, I think trades should only be triggered with the trend.

I will update the first page with this new information, but I think this will do it.

Cheers......
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #155
  • Feb 20, 2008 12:36am Feb 20, 2008 12:36am
hi damonl. do you think the 200 moving ave is something that could be of use. i use them on my oz chart. maybe wait for all 3 to confirm but maybe thats to much. after all we like it simple dont we. i know i will only do an oz trade with the trend ie 200 confirming. whats your thoughts buddy. steve
by the way i am still in my g/j trade with the second lot. plus 40. i moved my s/l to -50 which allowed me to stay in.
  • #156
  • Feb 20, 2008 5:24am Feb 20, 2008 5:24am
Quoting brisvegus
hi damonl. do you think the 200 moving ave is something that could be of use. i use them on my oz chart. maybe wait for all 3 to confirm but maybe thats to much. after all we like it simple dont we. i know i will only do an oz trade with the trend ie 200 confirming. whats your thoughts buddy. steve
by the way i am still in my g/j trade with the second lot. plus 40. i moved my s/l to -50 which allowed me to stay in.
Hey bris.....

The 200 might work, but I am not a big fan of moving averages. I know many like them, but to me they are just average. I know that OzFx has done studies stating that using the 200 MA only nets slighly less reesults than not using the 200 MA.

I still am using a very different version of OzFx that gets me in much earlier and keeps me in much longer. Though I am not saying that OxFx as it currently is on the forum is not good, I am saying that it is flawed in my jusdgement. I think it will continue to provide many pips and am greatful for Oz to show it to us and that others are using it successfully.

You see, I want what the market wants. OxFx only wants 300 pips. Currently they are up only +820 pips for the month. One loss and they will lose most of that. Using OzFx you are litterally leaving 1000's of pips on the table, and my philosphy is that once you are in the trend you milk it for every pip you can get out of it. OzFx philosophy is to only take 300 pips.

I don't mean to be negative, I look at systems and how they can be better and what to do to make them better. OzFx is good, but could be a lot better.

Anyway, kind of off track, but one thing leads to another........

The 200 SMA would work, but would keep us out of many trades, and if nothing else works, I will give it a try, but I still have one more option at least if the AO fails, but I don't think it will.

Cheers......
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #157
  • Feb 20, 2008 5:25am Feb 20, 2008 5:25am
Quoting niner49
Good catch damon, like most things in life it was a bit too good to be true haha. Ill keep an eye on it as well.
Let me know if you have any input.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
  • #158
  • Edited 9:46am Feb 20, 2008 9:38am | Edited 9:46am
Hey Damonl,
I totally agree. Looking for more of the move as well.

Can you post a chart as per your post yesterday at 6:48pm titled "Finding the Trend". Post # 154.

Thanks.
  • #159
  • Feb 20, 2008 4:22pm Feb 20, 2008 4:22pm
On my daily charts there´s an IB on the Wednesday's GBPJPY (my day closes at 5pm EST). The Silver trend "dot", although 4 bars away, indicates short. The AO also shows a barely noticeable albeit red bar with a value of 0.120. Would this fit the qualifications for a short trade? Or does the AO need to be red AND negative for a short?
  • #160
  • Feb 20, 2008 5:27pm Feb 20, 2008 5:27pm
Quoting niner49
On my daily charts there´s an IB on the Wednesday's GBPJPY (my day closes at 5pm EST). The Silver trend "dot", although 4 bars away, indicates short. The AO also shows a barely noticeable albeit red bar with a value of 0.120. Would this fit the qualifications for a short trade? Or does the AO need to be red AND negative for a short?
This would be correct. This would signal that you would only place your IB trade order to the short side only. SL would be a personal preference, and ideally you would want to keep them open until a reversal, but you should get used to the system and feel comfortable for sure.

I will probably use .11 lots and leave it open until a reversal, but that is just me, and in a way I am still kind of feeling this out, but it looks good to me.
"Keep your eyes on the helpers" - Mr. Rogers
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