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Indicator Free Trading - Skunny

  • #3,061
  • Feb 1, 2008 5:56pm Feb 1, 2008 5:56pm
It is impossible for the market to move outside certain levels and ratios. Skunny is right when he says the market is not chaotic put predetermined. Pretty cool stuff!
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  • #3,062
  • Feb 1, 2008 7:04pm Feb 1, 2008 7:04pm
The swing high on the first chart I posted was met to the T. The wash over you see on the chart is a zoom issue. Does anyone else have issues with their fibs changing places tiny amounts when you change the zoom or stretch of your page? Sometimes it can be a real pain.
  • #3,063
  • Feb 1, 2008 10:07pm Feb 1, 2008 10:07pm
anyone care to fib ej and tell me what u all think?


I am so tired and brainmushelled by now it aint funny....

all work and no play makes jack a dull boy...all work and no play makes jack a dull boy ...all work ahhh forget it u either saw that movie or u didnt

anyway!!!!!!! here is what i am seeing fibbing swings on ej........ seems to me pipr (abd others) got it rokin and rollin and flowin and ebbin to da beat like a waltz


the Skunny Walz ...YES indeed I like it! ha ha..... up then down then back up now back down and once more back up now swing it around ....weeeeeeee
its an odd rhythm for a waltz i must admit but hey.......


OK GUYS here it is! I am exhausted !! I EXPECT U ALL TO VHANDS AND HELP ME OUT HERE!!! C'mon guys MOLEY QUAIL MOLIER QUAIL MOLIEST QUAIL!!!! lol


the thing is this if you fib these wings 4 of them hit 38 or 61 retraces to the pip!!!! (my chart doesn't show them all) this cannot be coincidnce!!!! lets go people!!! OK I also trying only fibbing differeing level swing points, points that that have more than 7, (also trying 12 and 15) bars to the left and 7, 12 15 bars to the right higher/lower than the swing.... a pinbar with only 2 bars to left and 2 bars to right is not a true enough swing.... this helps eliminate false fibs possibly......


what happens when we fib swing 1? what about swing 2? 3? 4? 5? crosseyed?

i am so done for now...need a vacation hope someone can help me find that dang quail soon.... that bugger might just kill me before i bag it
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  • #3,064
  • Feb 1, 2008 10:21pm Feb 1, 2008 10:21pm
DaG, are you gonna get spanked?

Picasso could not have done it better.
  • #3,065
  • Feb 2, 2008 12:47am Feb 2, 2008 12:47am
Quoting BarneyDog
DXT, when/where will you put the next Gann fan, based on your last attachement?
Hi Barney,

I would move the lower fan now to the new low at 208.82.
But all these lines making me nuts and diverting me from the picture. So I decided for now to just draw single gann lines. BTW... see how GJ hit the daily 138 extension at the gann line, coming from the low of the swing? Nice.

Some personal thoughts...

Fib Cycle
A completed cycle is the price going to 1.382 or 1.618 (1.382 is enough for me. It depends on personal taste) to -0.382 or -0.618 on any given fib.

Fib Method
The "classic" fib trading as described in nearly all fibonacci literature is trading the retracements of a swing in a larger trend and entering at the 50 or 618 inner fibs with the target at 681 extension. That is a little bit what Bo does.
Skunny is (if I'm not completely stoned) more trading the breakout of whatever nice swing he's fibbing.

As far as I'm concerned I trade a kind of in-between mixture. If I see a cluster of a 0/100 of the smaller fib together with a breakout of the DZ of the bigger fib... thats an entry for me with the target at 382...not more.
But thats just me!

Have a nice weekend all...

P.S.... and heres my chart of EJ as well as I will have it for sunday night!
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"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #3,066
  • Feb 2, 2008 1:21am Feb 2, 2008 1:21am
Anyone else seeing this?
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  • #3,067
  • Feb 2, 2008 7:23am Feb 2, 2008 7:23am
Quoting Scotty B
Anyone else seeing this?

Hello kind sir... It is a pleasure to hear from you.... I'm not really sure what you are seeing based on your charts..... Have you discovered something different and special?... If so, please share....


Have you been following this thread from its beginning like some of us? It has been so fun so far!

PS a little explanation of what you think your chart may show would go a long way for us commenting, learning and helpng test.... thans!


welcome to the fib mania!
  • #3,068
  • Feb 2, 2008 7:34am Feb 2, 2008 7:34am
Scotty, I was watching it but I don't make trades based off of the 4 hr. Saying that it did react right off of the 38 retracement. My worry is that it will go up and then test the 61 retracement and I can't handle that kind of drawdown. So I'll keep watching and if it does retrace to the 61, I'll enter and wait for a very long and profitable ride.
  • #3,069
  • Feb 2, 2008 7:37am Feb 2, 2008 7:37am
Quoting DXTrade
Hi Barney,

I would move the lower fan now to the new low at 208.82.
But all these lines making me nuts and diverting me from the picture. So I decided for now to just draw single gann lines. BTW... see how GJ hit the daily 138 extension at the gann line, coming from the low of the swing? Nice.

Some personal thoughts...

Fib Cycle
A completed cycle is the price going to 1.382 or 1.618 (1.382 is enough for me. It depends on personal taste) to -0.382 or -0.618 on any given fib.

Fib Method
The "classic" fib trading as described in nearly all fibonacci literature is trading the retracements of a swing in a larger trend and entering at the 50 or 618 inner fibs with the target at 681 extension. That is a little bit what Bo does.
Skunny is (if I'm not completely stoned) more trading the breakout of whatever nice swing he's fibbing.

As far as I'm concerned I trade a kind of in-between mixture. If I see a cluster of a 0/100 of the smaller fib together with a breakout of the DZ of the bigger fib... thats an entry for me with the target at 382...not more.
But thats just me!

Have a nice weekend all...

P.S.... and heres my chart of EJ as well as I will have it for sunday night!
OK here we go... I love your swing fibs......

SWINGS...YES!!!! on your GJ chart...you fibbed the second leg or sing and it worked out great! hmmmmmm then
you fibbed the inner swing and you had a buy penetration, and then a reversal and break down and completion?

my question then is whether or not that buy is still valid??????????? OR did you not "activate that buy because it was too close to a larger fib from the bigger cycle and would not have been able to complete within your larger fib? in other words I'm not sure you have fibbed as skunny would have????? are you?

and how do you know? and when would it get cancelled.... this is GJ here, I'd rather not have to wait 3 weeks and have 1000pip drawdown for my fib to complete.... know what i mean?

help me out!
  • #3,070
  • Feb 2, 2008 7:53am Feb 2, 2008 7:53am
Quoting dagoods
OK here we go... I love your swing fibs......

SWINGS...YES!!!! on your GJ chart...you fibbed the second leg or sing and it worked out great! hmmmmmm then
you fibbed the inner swing and you had a buy penetration, and then a reversal and break down and completion?

my question then is whether or not that buy is still valid??????????? OR did you not "activate that buy because it was too close to a larger fib from the bigger cycle and would not have been able to complete within your larger fib? in other words I'm not sure you have fibbed as skunny would have????? are you?

and how do you know? and when would it get cancelled.... this is GJ here, I'd rather not have to wait 3 weeks and have 1000pip drawdown for my fib to complete.... know what i mean?

help me out!
LOL...
This small fib is over and the buy isn't valid anymore.
On my chart yesterday I marked where I went in the buy... which was after the break of the 61.8 inner fib upwards at 211.84. It went up until 212.36 before shooting down at NFP. Could have put my SL to BE +1 but took the risk... and got burned with -90 pips as my stop was at the other side of the big fib DZ.

As it passed all levels down... my small fib was definitely wrong. So--> trash can.

The daily high/low worked out fine... but I didn't trade it.

Right now my chart looks like below (forget the small swing... it's just in place for now until a real swing develops )
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"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #3,071
  • Feb 2, 2008 7:57am Feb 2, 2008 7:57am
Are we gonna get it! Gann's vs. Fibbing. I can hear Skunny now.

DXT...
Thanks for the info above. I followed it, scary.

Why do some highs have one Gann line and others have two?

Why do some lows have one Gann line and others have two?

How do you enter and close based on the Gann lines, and their interaction with Fibs (% lines)?

Dagoods....

Same question for you. How do you enter and close based on the Gann lines, and their interaction with Fibs.

---------
It would be interesting to see both your answers and then to compare.
---------
Good stuff.
---------
Do you guys ever sleep? You too galaxymom, when do you sleep?

Oh, I get it, you just keep the puter on all the time, so when you wake up for whatever, you glance at the screen for the latest. duh.

Regards,
Barney
  • #3,072
  • Edited 8:43am Feb 2, 2008 8:17am | Edited 8:43am
Quoting BarneyDog
Are we gonna get it! Gann's vs. Fibbing. I can hear Skunny now.

DXT...
Thanks for the info above. I followed it, scary.

Why do some highs have one Gann line and others have two?

Why do some lows have one Gann line and others have two?

How do you enter and close based on the Gann lines, and their interaction with Fibs (% lines)?

Dagoods....

Same question for you. How do you enter and close based on the Gann lines, and their interaction with Fibs.

---------
It would be interesting to see both your answers and then to compare.
---------
Good stuff.
---------
Do you guys ever sleep? You too galaxymom, when do you sleep?

Oh, I get it, you just keep the puter on all the time, so when you wake up for whatever, you glance at the screen for the latest. duh.

Regards,
Barney
LOL, I have no clue what I'm doing with the Gann lines.
I use a scale of 4.00 as Skunny hinted some 23,876 post ago.
And then I place them so they build a grid. Thats why I don't place them everywhere. Would be too many.
And right now I'm just placing them and watch... to see whether a target is reached at a cross of any gann line with the fib extension. I don't use them for any trade decision right now. Although on the above chart it's nice to see how the price stays inside the gann channel. We will see whether it stays inside or breaks out next week...

I'm any way more and more convinced that the secret of trading are the exits... not the entries.
Every freaking indicator can give you more or less good entries... but let 20 peoples trade with the same entry in the same direction and the same lot size... at the end of the trade you will have everything from -100 to +100 pips.

So the basic advantage of the fibs are to give you a target... and stick to it.
Use clusters... and even clusters of fibs with pivot levels as S/R.

Just my 2 pips...
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #3,073
  • Feb 2, 2008 8:31am Feb 2, 2008 8:31am
Quoting galaxymom
I would say be careful about rules at this point. Sharing experiences, Ahh-Ha moments, is great, but until we get some guidance from Skunny, self-discovery is still the buzz word for me.

and btw, Dagoods, just for your understanding, for me, out of all the courses I've taken over the past 9 months, and yes, I'm very new compared to the majority of you, Fibonacci's were never discussed or no more that a 1 paragraph discussion. So, yes, I have gone to Bo's thread to gain an understanding of how it all works and fits together and for the better understanding of support and resistance as it relates to fibs so I have a foundation to build upon. I will not apologize for my work on my charts, but if you guys are bothered by them, I will not post them.

Please add my vote to your opinion on being careful not to "assume" we know what Skunny is teaching. I still haven't seen a "thread" of evidence from Skunny himself that we have now been shown 2% or more of what he knows. Remember, he said this is only 1% and to this point I don't remember reading another post saying otherwise. It's good to compare, to show and tell, and to observe other's discoveries but thinking that we have arrived in my opinion is very pre-mature. I have seen definitions of a cycle but can't recall Skunny giving us a definition of such. Of course, we have exalted him to Saint hood for sharing this information and if we only have 1% so far....then God better get another chair...maybe at his left hand (LOL) if there is 99% more to follow. I am waiting to see the next level he takes us to and I think only then we will realize where we truly are. Assuming can be a dangerous activity.

That is my opinion and I am sticking to it...at least for the next 10 minutes.

Daniel
  • #3,074
  • Feb 2, 2008 8:39am Feb 2, 2008 8:39am
Quoting galaxymom
Here's my take on drawing the Daily fib, your basic for each days trading, and Raptor, I think there are lots of opinions, put your chart time frame on H1, be sure it is zoomed out at least enough to see 2 days prior, look at yesterday( to help with confusion I'll give it a label, Tues), find the High and the Low, if that high or low was continued from the day before (Mon), reach back to the High on that day as your high/low. You will also have to look to see if the H/l continues in a move into today's(Wed) price action. From that basic Day fib you will have to find your own way to draw your inner fib and how and when to move it with in the larger daily fib. Practice, practice, practice. A good exercise Skunny gave us was to keep moving it until it laid over the price action to give us the target hit. This really helped me, and I guess for me it was like working a jigsaw puzzle.
Thanks for the reply, it's good of you to take the time to try and help.

I'm also trying to get a handle on Bobokus' Fib thread . . once I've done that and had a little practice I'll pop back with some questions I'm sure . . .

Quoting galaxymom
Best of Luck
Thanks :-)
20 pips a day isn't too much to ask . . .
  • #3,075
  • Feb 2, 2008 9:00am Feb 2, 2008 9:00am
Here you go. I think a cycle can go a lot longer than previously thought. To a 38 or 61 but which? There are several MAJOR levels the market uses (see my chart).
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  • #3,076
  • Feb 2, 2008 9:23am Feb 2, 2008 9:23am
Add these to your fibs:
-1.250,-1.382,-1.618,-2.250,-2.382,-2.618,-3.250,-3.382,-3.618,-4.250,-4.382,
-4.618 and the positive opposites...MT only lets you have so many levels...You kids can figure it out. Start experimenting with these and make sure to hold onto your jaws. I don't know everything, but I'll explain more of what I've discovered later. I draw my fibs from swings to the 'wrong side' of swings because I find the market coheres more strongly to the levels. It works the other way to though because fibs are simply proportional lengths. The market is predetermined by proportion. Simple.
  • #3,077
  • Edited 10:08am Feb 2, 2008 9:26am | Edited 10:08am
Quoting BarneyDog
Are we gonna get it! Gann's vs. Fibbing. I can hear Skunny now.

DXT...
Thanks for the info above. I followed it, scary.

Why do some highs have one Gann line and others have two?

Why do some lows have one Gann line and others have two?

How do you enter and close based on the Gann lines, and their interaction with Fibs (% lines)?

Dagoods....

Same question for you. How do you enter and close based on the Gann lines, and their interaction with Fibs.

---------
It would be interesting to see both your answers and then to compare.
---------
Good stuff.
---------
Do you guys ever sleep? You too galaxymom, when do you sleep?

Oh, I get it, you just keep the puter on all the time, so when you wake up for whatever, you glance at the screen for the latest. duh.

Regards,
Barney

I have no idea how to draw gann lines properly...who does really? maybe gann did and maybe skunny...but certainly not me.... but if u want to play on DEMO like me...here is what i do with these silly lines.... I use an indicator! just kidding...well not really... I use a tool or two.... but i am finding its better off drawing them by hand here is howzer i try to dos it....


go to higher tf and find the triangle (big major swing high low and gann it up and down though at least 2 points.... then go back in time and do the same, try different methods its lots of fun, kinda reminds me of etch a sketch!!!

more specifically I use the channel drawing tool on mt4 and I only draw them through points of at least 2 major swing points if that makes any sense, and i love to see 3 points cause it makes me warm and fuzzy...otherwise u have too many lines.... its all fun and games and i would NEVER trade them...(although trendlines I do trade especially when they line up nicely with a fibarooney) but trendlines are current lines and gann lines are past lines that someday become current lines IMO...I play with these ganns because I just like to see where trouble MAY occur (possible reversal zones).... a down sloping linear line from a previous swing, along with a pareelel line/channel can SOMETIMES be a support area on a future swing and vice versa..... MY 2 cents....

BUT I am so so very far away from mastering fibs that gann is just confusion right now...so............... need mre testing anyone that wants to vhands with me PM me so we can bag that moley grail already!!!
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  • #3,078
  • Edited Feb 3, 2008 8:04am Feb 2, 2008 10:24am | Edited Feb 3, 2008 8:04am
Hey everybody!

I've been busy trading and working on other stuff for awhile. It's hard to stay up with the latest developments and findings cuz you guys move along so fast! lol

I haven't been able to read every post, but I just wanted to comment on a few things I've seen here and there. First, the "DZ" or decision zone... Is that the inner range between the 38.2, 50.0, and 61.8 inner fibs? If so, that seems reasonable to me. But I'm not sure about declaring certain ranges "valid" and others "not valid" using that criteria (unless Skunny posted about this and I missed it?). Suffice it to say that price seems to definitely make it's way among those inner levels with accuracy similar to what it displays in hitting the 138 targets.

Another note...I'm thinking it's a bit too much to expect price to nail these levels and targets to the pip. Many times it's very close, but Skunny has said early on there is a fair amount of broker inaccuracy in price feeds. If price gets 80% of the way to the target, then I think that's fine. Maybe that's a bit "loose" and Skunny might say it needs to be tighter. I just don't think we can rely on too many self-contrived absolutes and that we tend to desire fixed rules which make us comfortable. If you get greedy waiting on price to nail a target to the pip and you throw away a nice 30 or 40 pip gain just to prove that you and your "rules" were RIGHT, what good is that? If price moved 80 pips toward a 100 pip target....was that a bad trade?? Was it "invalid"?? I surely don't think so.

My overall caveat is that we need to let Skunny lead us into and confirm the actual hard and fast "rules" of the road where these "absolutes" are concerned. Don't get me wrong...I think all the "what if" and AHH HAA! moments are GREAT!! I think posting and sharing our personal discoveries and tangents is entirely helpful. I just think we need to exercise a bit of restraint in our zeal to make declarations of absolutes in territory where newbies may be grasping for solid rocks to hold onto. Short of that, keep turning over the stones and sharing what you find under them, by all means!!
  • #3,079
  • Feb 2, 2008 10:42am Feb 2, 2008 10:42am
Quoting BarneyDog
..................Do you guys ever sleep?
hey all - slept about 6 hours over 3 days - tired, but anticipating greater things. Lots of Fib / Gann stuff. I've been looking at it from very different viewpoints than what has been posted here just to test and find an AHA moment. But it's not working out well so far because of some moves that don't work. On GJ sometimes on M5 after substantial moves that end a cycle (138.2 or 161.8 target attainment) after one M5 bar opposite direction you can draw fib on the previous move range that has just completed and place a Gann line on the range H or L. The Gann line scale is -10 for H placement and +10 for L placement on M5 scalps. From the Gann interview:

"I have found that the law of vibration governs and controls these conditions. I have also found that certain phases of this law govern the rise in a stock and an entirely different rule operates on the decline."

This may be the case on larger time frames?? This results in many retracements being hit on the Gann and fib line simultaneously. Because this is a M5 trade it usually hits this point within 7-12 bars (less than an hour). Stops are tight due to retracement. The problem trades may be due to larger time frames fib completion. Will keep testing and advise if appropriate.
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  • #3,080
  • Feb 2, 2008 1:52pm Feb 2, 2008 1:52pm
Quoting [U
Islander[/u];1831836]Whoops - sorry GM, I put that badly and I've edited my post. Aside from that error, I dont want to bring up ideas that may belong more in a research environment rather than a focused thread.
Islander, I am not sure who or what made you think you shouldn't post your ideas any further but may I recommend you continue to do so. You and several other posters here are offering trade ideas that hold great promise. How accurate has the back testing of your 144 M5 bar Fib/Gann projections been? One of the charts you posted was ridiculously accurate.
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