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Indicator Free Trading - Skunny

  • #1,861
  • Jan 13, 2008 6:30pm Jan 13, 2008 6:30pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Currently on page 31. It seems that the talk of the Gann lines (which i presumed to be the core) has died out.
Regarding the post with the image above, the 'zones' were constructed with parralel Gann lines as skunny demonstrated yes? (your lines are not)

Im not picking, just trying to understand and learn.....

Leon
Hi Leon - If you are still reading through the thread, Skunny just advised on the previous page here http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=1833
not to worry about Gann yet, but to keep focusing on fib testing
  • #1,862
  • Jan 13, 2008 6:31pm Jan 13, 2008 6:31pm
is it possible to enter OCO (one cancels other) orders on vHands?
  • #1,863
  • Edited 11:31pm Jan 13, 2008 7:00pm | Edited 11:31pm
Skunny I have traded forex utilizing polyphasic sleep (4-6 short naps per day). Am I correct that you utilize BuyStop, Sell Stop & StopLoss orders therefore freeing you up to sleep?

EDIT: Answered By You Previously XXXXX Do you ever enter positions after the break (or penetration) of the internal fibs, e.g. 38.2 or 61.8?XXXXX

If so, any clue what identifier you used in advance to turn that type of trade into a higher probability vs. a 0 or 100 break?

EDIT: Answered By You Previously XXXXX Or do you always wait for the 0 -100 to break?XXXXX

Finally - I have always watched PA to determine if I will continue holding the position past 138.2 going for the 161.8 or higher fib. Sometimes this goes against me and I am stopped out below the 138.2 but still in profit. Have you found a PA identifier to turn that decision of waiting possibly for the 161.8 into a higher probability?

Thank you in advance.
  • #1,864
  • Jan 13, 2008 7:11pm Jan 13, 2008 7:11pm
I finished my Vhands trading for the weekend just a little while ago. I traded GJ on M15 back as far as my history on IBFX would go. I began on Oct 10th through Oct 14th 2007. My time was limited, so I traded a little here and there yesterday and today.

I took 19 trades and had one loser for -19 pips. I netted +985 pips for the 14 days. My average winning trade was +53 pips. This closely relates to my actual demo trading for the first two weeks of 2008 which yielded +902 pips.

Here is my Vhands statement.

Is anyone else trading Vhands over the weekends for practice?
  • #1,865
  • Jan 13, 2008 7:14pm Jan 13, 2008 7:14pm
Quoting PiPr Pro
is it possible to enter OCO (one cancels other) orders on vHands?
Don't think so, but check BlueRuby's Vhands thread to be sure. I know you can place buy/sell stops and limits as well as market buy/sells. But never saw anything in the documentation about OCO's. Would be nice.... Btw...I'd like to know how to do that in LIVE MT4...
  • #1,866
  • Jan 13, 2008 7:20pm Jan 13, 2008 7:20pm
Quoting PiPr Pro
Skunny I have traded forex utilizing polyphasic sleep (4-6 short naps per day). Am I correct that you utilize BuyStop, Sell Stop & StopLoss orders therefore freeing you up to sleep?

Do you ever enter positions after the break (or penetration) of the internal fibs, e.g. 38.2 or 61.8?

If so, any clue what identifier you used in advance to turn that type of trade into a higher probability vs. a 0 or 100 break?

Or do you always wait for the 0 -100 to break?

Finally - I have always watched PA to determine if I will continue holding the position past 138.2 going for the 161.8 or higher fib. Sometimes this goes against me and I am stopped out below the 138.2 but still in profit. Have you found a PA identifier to turn that decision of waiting possibly for the 161.8 into a higher probability?

Thank you in advance.
Good questions PiPr Pro,

I've really been needing some additional information on when or when not to take the trades toward the internal fibo levels. Currently, I'm entering on penetration of the 0/100 levels and then trading defensively when DD occurs if the extensions aren't hit right off the bat. I will usually do a Martingale type stacking of trades as price moves back against my position into the 50% or spans back to the opposite 0/100 level. But I'd really like to know what others are doing with these levels. I am trading the M15 GJ pair and I've been ultimately doing pretty well both on Vhands and demo. But I'd prefer to figure out a more R/R friendly way of handling these retracements.

Any suggestions anyone?
  • #1,867
  • Jan 13, 2008 7:24pm Jan 13, 2008 7:24pm
Quoting Pipskateer
...Is anyone else trading Vhands over the weekends for practice?
Thanks for sharing. Yes! That is what I've been doing all week and weekend long

Quoting Pipskateer
Don't think so, but check BlueRuby's Vhands thread to be sure. I know you can place buy/sell stops and limits as well as market buy/sells. But never say anything in the documentation about OCO's. Would be nice.... Btw...I'd like to know how to do that in LIVE MT4...
vHands won't let you OCO. You have to click the ticket number you want to delete, move it and then un pause the backtester. MT4 doesn't allow OCO, but its quite easy to code an MQL file that would do this for you.
The market is like the matrix - it is you that must learn to bend
  • #1,868
  • Jan 13, 2008 7:25pm Jan 13, 2008 7:25pm
Quoting galaxymom
May I ask what you mean by MULTIPLE PLATFORMS, Please?

thanks
More than one broker's data feed. Remember the pic of yours where Skunny was showing where IBFX showed a spike and Alpari did not?
The market is like the matrix - it is you that must learn to bend
  • #1,869
  • Jan 13, 2008 7:36pm Jan 13, 2008 7:36pm
Quoting Pipskateer
Good questions PiPr Pro,

I've really been needing some additional information on when or when not to take the trades toward the internal fibo levels. Currently, I'm entering on penetration of the 0/100 levels and then trading defensively when DD occurs if the extensions aren't hit right off the bat. I will usually do a Martingale type stacking of trades as price moves back against my position into the 50% or spans back to the opposite 0/100 level. But I'd really like to know what others are doing with these levels. I am trading the M15 GJ pair and I've been ultimately doing pretty well both on Vhands and demo. But I'd prefer to figure out a more R/R friendly way of handling these retracements.

Any suggestions anyone?
Skunny did give some clues here, but I am hoping for additional clarity:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=1760429&postcount=176

and from post # 189

What I did when I pulled the fib is define a trading range. Once this is defined we trade when the price violates our range. Because we don't know if it is a break out or not we enter the trade on penetration. In this case it pissed us off and sought out the inner fib supports. So we have 1 long position (penetration) (optional) and we add to the position as it works against us (because we know where it is going). In this case it chose the 62 as support most likely completing a cycle on a lower time frame. I did not study this trade but for a moment or two, I just wanted to get something up on the thread before I left, so let's not get too anal about the chart...lol

Again, you need to just study and not trade it, because if you have your fib drawn in the wrong place you will lose big doing it the way I just described.
  • #1,870
  • Jan 13, 2008 7:37pm Jan 13, 2008 7:37pm
Quoting Pipskateer
I finished my Vhands trading for the weekend just a little while ago. I traded GJ on M15 back as far as my history on IBFX would go. I began on Oct 10th through Oct 14th 2007. My time was limited, so I traded a little here and there yesterday and today.

I took 19 trades and had one loser for -19 pips. I netted +985 pips for the 14 days. My average winning trade was +53 pips. This closely relates to my actual demo trading for the first two weeks of 2008 which yielded +902 pips.

Here is my Vhands statement.

Is anyone else trading Vhands over the weekends for practice?
I actually have everything downloaded in the correct place and it tick just nicely but I don't know how to use it to practise. Do we need to draw the fib line first b4 we get the ea working? I've read BR thread and follow but still do not know the actual process. Also I'm afraid of the big data crashing my pc cos that's the only pc I have and I need it to trade when market opens. Can you walk me through please? Thanks.
  • #1,871
  • Edited 7:41pm Jan 13, 2008 7:40pm | Edited 7:41pm
Quoting Pipskateer
...I will usually do a Martingale type stacking of trades as price moves back against my position into the 50% or spans back to the opposite 0/100 level. But I'd really like to know what others are doing with these levels. I am trading the M15 GJ pair and I've been ultimately doing pretty well both on Vhands and demo. But I'd prefer to figure out a more R/R friendly way of handling these retracements.

Any suggestions anyone?
What I am doing is similar. If price is going against my order then I add to the position with a larger lot size. Skunny mentioned something along these lines...using smaller lots when your stop is big and larger when it is not. On vHands, I trade this way only on the smaller swings.

EDIT: PiPr Pro beat me to it
The market is like the matrix - it is you that must learn to bend
  • #1,872
  • Jan 13, 2008 7:44pm Jan 13, 2008 7:44pm
Quoting Skunny

so you get up in the morning brush your teeth ,take out the dog, start a pot of coffee, shower,put on your clothes for the day answer the phone - talk on the phone maybe answer some questions, let the dog in and drink your coffee, realize you need to visit the mens room, start up your computer, check your email bla bla bla bla bla.
Are you kidding me, put on your clothes for the day? Start your computer? I never get dressed unless I'm leaving the house, and I never turn off my computer! Jeeez, I answer emails 24 hours a day, and biz calls too. Must be NICE!

The Chambermaid
Mom "To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom." – Bertrand Russell
  • #1,873
  • Jan 13, 2008 7:54pm Jan 13, 2008 7:54pm
Hey guys (gals?)

Ive just seen the other thread, seems the system/outlook/knowledge is going to be for sale now?
Does this meen there is any point in continuing to read? Only up to page 34 so far.
Im 21 and working in a Co-op, cant afford flights to the USA.

Thats quite dissapointing.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #1,874
  • Edited 8:29pm Jan 13, 2008 8:02pm | Edited 8:29pm
Quoting PiPr Pro
Finally - I have always watched PA to determine if I will continue holding the position past 138.2 going for the 161.8 or higher fib. Sometimes this goes against me and I am stopped out below the 138.2 but still in profit. Have you found a PA identifier to turn that decision of waiting possibly for the 161.8 into a higher probability?
Pipr, in my backtesting I've looked at whether you come out ahead if you wait for the 161.8 rather than exiting at the 138.2. You make 60% more pips by taking the further exit, but I'm sure you've noticed that a significant number of times the price will stall after hitting the 138 and reverse all the way through the other side of the range. So far-- not making any claims at this point! --I've always come out well ahead when I make my exit at the 161. But we need to be aware that this falls under the "learn to create your own system" clause. Skunny has clearly stated that the 138 is his exit. Here's what he had to say in a past post:

Quote
To answer the question simply.....I don't have a reason to take trades to the 162 ext. That becomes greedy to me and with all the opportunities I let it go.

...Scott...
  • #1,875
  • Edited 8:12pm Jan 13, 2008 8:06pm | Edited 8:12pm
Quoting Pipskateer
Good questions PiPr Pro,
.

Any suggestions anyone?
Pip,

I would Hedge or wait for the retrace to get in cheap. No retrace no trade.or just enter and accept my loss/win based on MM. Also if you mis fibbrolized you would be safe how many pierce trades did and didn;t retrace and then go from there. watch price action.I am not a fan of idea of entering on a pierce personally.maybe the other way.if that make sense

I think you mean DollarCostAveraging, averaging losers or whatever... is what you are doing? if you mis fibbed ( I know I know that doesn;t happen to you apparently fib master Nice work this weekend!!!hehe but assuming whatever and it went south FIBO would be living in a maytag box in the allyno one wants that!

I don;t know if anyone got this.. but there is a post here where someone reposted SKunny... saying

I was waiting or got in at the 62 as a likely completion of a smaller tf

this is exactly what I want to do and have been trying to post charts about and get talking about.. you define a range with a master fib say it breaks sht. fiddles around... what if you were to accurately fib the mini cycles and were able to trade the best bargain and pick tops or bottoms which ,hello is sweet like candy...sigh I can dream.


Anyone working on this? this plus accurate gann and secret sauce and you could say I am going sht at 157.64 in 31 hours and I plan on being in the trade for 300 pip and 27 hours... how cool.


Sizz
  • #1,876
  • Jan 13, 2008 8:12pm Jan 13, 2008 8:12pm
I think Rbing was waiting for the retrace instead entering on the penetration quite successfully.

Me personally, I have lately been entering .2 lots on penetration and waiting to enter the other .3 lots on the retrace (if it happens)
trading naked.......
  • #1,877
  • Jan 13, 2008 8:19pm Jan 13, 2008 8:19pm
OK everybody,
I just dropped the gann lines. They confuse me more then they help me for now. Maybe - as Skunny said - later!

As to the place where to draw the fibs I have a theory - call me nuts or spank me if I'm completely wrong:
I'm trading from the H1 mainly and wasn't sure to draw the fibs at the right swings. But after vhanding a while, watching and trying I now firmly believe that it doesnt matter what swing you fib for the simple reason that a small swing on H1 becomes a big swing on 15M or 5M. So someone trading the 15M drawing a fib on a "big" swing will have the same fibs then someone drawing a small swing on H1 or H4. Do I make myself understood? And eventually on whatever swing you draw your fib the 38 extension will be hit.
On the chart below you have the blue fib already finished (38 hit), the black and even the small yellow are still waiting but both will eventually work out.

OK, I just had one coffee here, need a second, stronger one to get my thoughts straight. But hey, it makes me feel safer with my theory, because the only thing bothering me since the beginning of this thread is the feeling of having no clue where to draw my fibs. I mean... S/R areas are easy to see if you zoom the chart out, no?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gj.gif Size: 24 KB
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #1,878
  • Jan 13, 2008 9:30pm Jan 13, 2008 9:30pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Hey guys (gals?)

Ive just seen the other thread, seems the system/outlook/knowledge is going to be for sale now?
Does this meen there is any point in continuing to read? Only up to page 34 so far.
Im 21 and working in a Co-op, cant afford flights to the USA.

Thats quite dissapointing.
Hi Leon - are you referring to the Trading Workshop Thread?
If so - I don't think there is a problem. Skunny has brought some folks together before for a gathering of the minds and I hear they had a blast. He is here teaching and doing a great job. He indicated in the other thread the following:

Due to the volume of emails and pm's sent to both Bo and I ..... We've concluded that trying to do this in a text/forum format is extremely difficult and time consuming...... Bo contacted me the other day with the idea of possibly putting together a trading skills workshop. One that doesn't sell anyone a bunch of garbage they can't interpret,..... We are not seminar sales people, .....

2 points: the camaraderie would be great and some attendees are more advanced traders already who believe in absorbing as much information for training purposes as possible. Those people would be able to continue assisting the thread just as they are now by furthering many discussions without the input from Skunny. This saves him time to focus on other teaching ideas that haven't already been covered. Hope this helps.
  • #1,879
  • Jan 13, 2008 9:37pm Jan 13, 2008 9:37pm
Quoting PiPr Pro
Hi Leon - are you referring to the Trading Workshop Thread?
If so - I don't think there is a problem. Skunny has brought some folks together before for a gathering of the minds and I hear they had a blast. He is here teaching and doing a great job. He indicated in the other thread the following:

Due to the volume of emails and pm's sent to both Bo and I ..... We've concluded that trying to do this in a text/forum format is extremely difficult and time consuming...... Bo contacted me the other day with the idea of possibly putting together a trading skills workshop. One that doesn't sell anyone a bunch of garbage they can't interpret,..... We are not seminar sales people, .....

2 points: the camaraderie would be great and some attendees are more advanced traders already who believe in absorbing as much information for training purposes as possible. Those people would be able to continue assisting the thread just as they are now by furthering many discussions without the input from Skunny. This saves him time to focus on other teaching ideas that haven't already been covered. Hope this helps.
Well said PP. We had a get together last year, and I had as much fun as I had had in as long as I can remember. I believe Skunny and Bo are planning on a little more structure than we had that time, but there were extenuating circumstances then that won't be an issue this time. A great opportunity to learn, and it is wonderful to put faces to the bogus names we all use!!!
  • #1,880
  • Jan 13, 2008 9:41pm Jan 13, 2008 9:41pm
Quoting joyrider
I actually have everything downloaded in the correct place and it tick just nicely but I don't know how to use it to practise. Do we need to draw the fib line first b4 we get the ea working? I've read BR thread and follow but still do not know the actual process. Also I'm afraid of the big data crashing my pc cos that's the only pc I have and I need it to trade when market opens. Can you walk me through please? Thanks.
Hi Joyrider,

I haven't had problems with VHands crashing my PC or large data/journal log files. It seems to run just fine for me on Vista. I think someone said you need to monitor the log file sizes and delete them if you're getting a lot of MT4 journal entries, but BR's thread could probably help you more with that.

You need to start a Vhand session first, then just pause it and modify your chart as you like with your fibos. I find it best to let some data run forward so you will have several swings to pull fibs from to get started. I have the vhandstrade.tpl file already saved how I like it with my favorite colors and fibo labels. Once you get your working fib pulls on the chart, then just pause it when you want to enter a market order. I actually use buy/sell limit orders and let price take me into the market and then let price hit my preset TP. I will trade for awhile, then just pause the session and come back later when I'm ready to resume. It's the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Hope that helps!!
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