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What do you think of Gain Capital? Oanda?

  • #21
  • Dec 30, 2007 4:23am Dec 30, 2007 4:23am
Quoting Treehugger
If I won't find any free and good charting software for FX, I too will open my account at Interbank FX. (they are a no dealing desk type of broker)

Sorry, hold on. I always thought non-ecn was always dd. And what's so bad about dd anyways? Because sometimes the house trades against you?

And what's all this price manipulation - isn't it completely illegal to quote non-existant price, but rather they stop hunt (especially if their liquidity pool is small)?

Also, I believe ODL uses MT4... which is good news for me, since I already use it for charting.
  • #22
  • Dec 30, 2007 4:33am Dec 30, 2007 4:33am
Quoting Skyhr
Sorry, hold on. I always thought non-ecn was always dd.
Correct. InterbankFX is no exception.

Quote
And what's so bad about dd anyways? Because sometimes the house trades against you?
Spread widening, trading against you, stop hunting, re-quoting, slippage, trade reversal, scalping deterrents, unknown liquidity, etc etc

Quote
And what's all this price manipulation - isn't it completely illegal to quote non-existant price, but rather they stop hunt (especially if their liquidity pool is small)?
Nothing is illegal in an unregulated market. Your broker is free to do whatever it wants with impunity. All the more reason to trade with an ECN.
  • #23
  • Dec 30, 2007 4:34am Dec 30, 2007 4:34am
Quoting Treehugger
If I won't find any free and good charting software for FX, I too will open my account at Interbank FX. (they are a no dealing desk type of broker)
Interbank FX??http://forum.clarence.com/images/smilies/ride.gifhttp://forum.clarence.com/images/smilies/specchi.gif

They reduced my leverage at 1:20 for scalping.Why??The answer was :http://forum.clarence.com/images/smilies/mabbaff.gif (we can do what we want)
Good luck
  • #24
  • Dec 30, 2007 8:08am Dec 30, 2007 8:08am
Trader KGB and UFO Engineer, thanks for bringing this up. I guess no Interbank FX for me then. Anyway, EFX seems like a very good broker with many good recommendations, and as I said, the only "problem" for me is, that they don't have a free charting software available. BUT - I've read in some other discussion, that EFX is working on a free charting software for their clients, and that it should be available soon.

I guess I will be using a demo account at Interbank FX so I can use their MT4 charting platform in the meanwhile. But, is this legal? I mean, don't they mind, if I do this? And are IBFX reliable enough for real trading? (I won't be a very active trader - only 1 or 2 trades per week, and no news trading)
  • #25
  • Dec 30, 2007 10:12am Dec 30, 2007 10:12am
Quoting Treehugger
I guess I will be using a demo account at Interbank FX so I can use their MT4 charting platform in the meanwhile. But, is this legal? I mean, don't they mind, if I do this?
Why wouldn't it be legal? There's nothing illegal about using a free charting package. It's their demo. Nothing says that you have to open a live account with them just because you try their demo.

Quoting Treehugger
And are IBFX reliable enough for real trading? (I won't be a very active trader - only 1 or 2 trades per week, and no news trading)
Well, that's debatable. I'd suggest a search of these forums and read some experiences of those who have dealt with IBFX.

I'd suggest you check out their forums (where you'll see many, many complaints about them) but, "mysteriously", it's unavailable now.

Hmm.
  • #26
  • Dec 30, 2007 12:51pm Dec 30, 2007 12:51pm
I’ve been trading using interbankfx MT4 charting while placing my orders with Oanda. I have a live account with interbankfx and often have connection problems.

I have not had a live or demo connection since Friday. I will have to wait till 6pm EST to find out what tech support has to say about it.

If IBFX had a reliable connection I would recommend them. But it’s more than likely the two times a week you try to place orders, you’ll be calling tech support to find out why the platform says “invalid account” or “no connection” or “common error”
  • #27
  • Dec 30, 2007 2:47pm Dec 30, 2007 2:47pm
Quoting Trader KGB
Spread widening, trading against you, stop hunting, re-quoting, slippage, trade reversal, scalping deterrents, unknown liquidity, etc etc
Ok, I understood all of those except for "trade reversal." What exactly do you mean by this and could you please elaborate on the effects on us speculators?

Also, just to make sure I understand the rest, "scalping deterrent" brokers dd don't like scalping so scalpers usually use ecn.

Personally, I don't understand what is so bad about the house trading against you. To my understanding, don't they scalp 5-10 pips before covering against you, but they are only doing this based on the statistics that speculators consistently lose? But trading against us doesn't actually undermine our trading, does it? I mean, why would it. If we lose, doesn't it mean that it's _our_ fault?

Or am I missing some pieces of the puzzle here?
  • #28
  • Dec 30, 2007 4:23pm Dec 30, 2007 4:23pm
Quoting Skyhr
Ok, I understood all of those except for "trade reversal." What exactly do you mean by this and could you please elaborate on the effects on us speculators?
Reversed as in canceled. I've read reviews where positions suddenly disappeared, meaning the trades were reversed/canceled for whatever reason. Or they may have been outright canceled for any number of reasons (most oftentimes to the client's detriment). This would be a criminal offense in a regulated market, but in FX, it's any day of the week.

Quote
Also, just to make sure I understand the rest, "scalping deterrent" brokers dd don't like scalping so scalpers usually use ecn.
Some reviews mentioned dd brokers putting scalpers on manual trading and/or lower leverage. Professional scalpers use ECNs, they wouldn't dream of using a dd.

Quote
Personally, I don't understand what is so bad about the house trading against you. To my understanding, don't they scalp 5-10 pips before covering against you, but they are only doing this based on the statistics that speculators consistently lose? But trading against us doesn't actually undermine our trading, does it? I mean, why would it. If we lose, doesn't it mean that it's _our_ fault?

Or am I missing some pieces of the puzzle here?
Statistically, yes, it is most likely in the broker's advantage to take the other side of their clients' trades, especially if the vast majority of their clients are not professional traders. Regardless, would you want to do business with a broker who has a material benefit in seeing you lose? Wouldn't you rather do business with a broker who's completely impartial to your positions? One that benefits commission-wise from your longevity in the markets as a client of theirs, and therefore provides you with the best services, execution, & spreads?
  • #29
  • Edited 5:33am Dec 31, 2007 5:32am | Edited 5:33am
Quoting In2Blues
Why wouldn't it be legal? There's nothing illegal about using a free charting package. It's their demo. Nothing says that you have to open a live account with them just because you try their demo.
It's good to hear that. I've talked today with EFX's support, and as you already mentioned on BabyPips.com Forum, the Remote Trader, with charting included, will be available "very soon". They also told they accept clients from Slovenia, which is superb. I'm very glad that you mentioned EFX on BabyPips.


I've also found this forex broker list, categorizing brokers as ECN, DD and NDD:
http://www.goforex.net/forex-broker-list.htm
  • #30
  • Dec 31, 2007 5:38am Dec 31, 2007 5:38am
Quoting Trader KGB
Reversed as in canceled. I've read reviews where positions suddenly disappeared, meaning the trades were reversed/canceled for whatever reason. Or they may have been outright canceled for any number of reasons (most oftentimes to the client's detriment). This would be a criminal offense in a regulated market, but in FX, it's any day of the week.
Yeah, I've read those too and I was a little concerned but I don't think it's all too common, some of those online reviews were just dumb though, like complaining about slippage, which I expect to be natural with all brokers during wild times.

Quoting Trader KGB
Statistically, yes, it is most likely in the broker's advantage to take the other side of their clients' trades, especially if the vast majority of their clients are not professional traders. Regardless, would you want to do business with a broker who has a material benefit in seeing you lose? Wouldn't you rather do business with a broker who's completely impartial to your positions? One that benefits commission-wise from your longevity in the markets as a client of theirs, and therefore provides you with the best services, execution, & spreads?
I believe Rusty_forexman has commented on his sticky regarding his experience at a large bank with a trading house about this, that they tried to serve the clients extremely well, even though they did go against the clients time to time.

So yeah, I don't think I mind the house trading against me, because it wouldn't really affect my trading edge - I mean, it'd be better if they didn't but I don't think I'd mind at all. Besides, if they win, they win, and if they lose, they lose. I still think it's fair game and I'm going to focus on my opportunities within these "restricted limitations" (which I don't really think are _that_ restricted anyways)
  • #31
  • Dec 31, 2007 6:24am Dec 31, 2007 6:24am
Be careful when looking at these sites. They do not give you a complete and updated list. The site does look good. Hint: if the site looks unprofessional, it most likely is.

Happy New Year

Quoting Treehugger
It's good to hear that. I've talked today with EFX's support, and as you already mentioned on BabyPips.com Forum, the Remote Trader, with charting included, will be available "very soon". They also told they accept clients from Slovenia, which is superb. I'm very glad that you mentioned EFX on BabyPips.


I've also found this forex broker list, categorizing brokers as ECN, DD and NDD:
http://www.goforex.net/forex-broker-list.htm
  • #32
  • Dec 31, 2007 1:14pm Dec 31, 2007 1:14pm
Quoting Skyhr
So yeah, I don't think I mind the house trading against me, because it wouldn't really affect my trading edge - I mean, it'd be better if they didn't but I don't think I'd mind at all. Besides, if they win, they win, and if they lose, they lose. I still think it's fair game and I'm going to focus on my opportunities within these "restricted limitations" (which I don't really think are _that_ restricted anyways)
I think you might feel differently when you've had a few trades stopped out at a loss when your broker's price suddenly spikes just enough to take you out and then just as suddenly returns to normal.

That's one of the disadvantages of the Dealing Desk broker trading against their clients.

I would agree with you if it was truly just a matter of the broker taking the other side of your trades ("if they win, they win, and if they lose, they lose"), but it usually ends up much worse -- for traders.

It's far from being a "fair game".
  • #33
  • Jan 1, 2008 8:19am Jan 1, 2008 8:19am
Quoting In2Blues
I think you might feel differently when you've had a few trades stopped out at a loss when your broker's price suddenly spikes just enough to take you out and then just as suddenly returns to normal.

That's one of the disadvantages of the Dealing Desk broker trading against their clients.

I would agree with you if it was truly just a matter of the broker taking the other side of your trades ("if they win, they win, and if they lose, they lose"), but it usually ends up much worse -- for traders.

It's far from being a "fair game".

You're right. I think after all this time, I've finally decided on my broker - Oanda. I've been reading their "Trader Bill Of Rights", among other articles and they seem to be the best available. Also, I believe many complain about liquidating positions because they have a different margin policy - half of the net value, or something. I'm still going through their pages.
  • #34
  • Jan 1, 2008 11:19am Jan 1, 2008 11:19am
Quoting Skyhr
You're right. I think after all this time, I've finally decided on my broker - Oanda. I've been reading their "Trader Bill Of Rights", among other articles and they seem to be the best available. Also, I believe many complain about liquidating positions because they have a different margin policy - half of the net value, or something. I'm still going through their pages.
You've probably made a good choice. I'm demoing with Oanda right now and plan to go live with them shortly.
  • #35
  • Jan 1, 2008 11:29am Jan 1, 2008 11:29am
Quoting In2Blues
You've probably made a good choice. I'm demoing with Oanda right now and plan to go live with them shortly.
First of all, Happy New Year everyone!

In2Blues, I see it is common, that many people use two or three brokers, but I fail to see the advantage of this. Well, it must be good for something, I guess, but could you please explain the advantages of using more than one broker? Thanks!
  • #36
  • Jan 1, 2008 1:02pm Jan 1, 2008 1:02pm
Hi,

I can name one - spreading your risk - remember FX is an unegulated market and notwithstanding bodies like the NFA which have NO power - but are an instrument to which the brokers submit themselves voluntarily - often times one does not know what the true situation is until it's potentially too late....look at the FXLQ situation...insufficent liquidity, no book keeping, intermingliong of funds'..and the list goes on.

regarding the rest...I find it a bit hard to believe anyone would accept the broker trading against their positions....what if one has 50 lots up...and gets stopped out ? That's a fair amount of cash..and all that aside..it's unethical...and skews the market always in their favour...like playing at the casino with weighted dice and being ok with it....
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #37
  • Jan 1, 2008 5:58pm Jan 1, 2008 5:58pm
Quoting coscorp
Hi,

I can name one - spreading your risk - remember FX is an unegulated market and notwithstanding bodies like the NFA which have NO power - but are an instrument to which the brokers submit themselves voluntarily - often times one does not know what the true situation is until it's potentially too late....look at the FXLQ situation...insufficent liquidity, no book keeping, intermingliong of funds'..and the list goes on.

OK, thanks for the explanation, coscorp.
  • #38
  • Jan 1, 2008 7:27pm Jan 1, 2008 7:27pm
Quoting Treehugger
First of all, Happy New Year everyone!

In2Blues, I see it is common, that many people use two or three brokers, but I fail to see the advantage of this. Well, it must be good for something, I guess, but could you please explain the advantages of using more than one broker? Thanks!
I have 3 accounts and reasons for all of them.
I maintain an account with Gain because they give me free eSignal charting. If I get a notion to enter a longer term trade I'll do it with Gain. On a longer term trade my profit target is generally a few hundred pips and Gain's higher spreads become less significant.
If I'm trading intraday and am shooting for 20-40 pips I'd rather use my Oanda account for:
1) tighter spreads
2) fast execution
I also have a small account with IBFX because I like to do some chart work on MT4. And I also like the idea that my IBFX account is tied to a companion savings account with Zion's bank. I can transfer my forex funds into the savings/checking and withdraw any time with a debit card.
These are a few of my reasons for multiple accounts, along with coscorp's reason of spreading risk.
  • #39
  • Jan 2, 2008 3:40am Jan 2, 2008 3:40am
Quoting billflet
I have 3 accounts and reasons for all of them.
I maintain an account with Gain because they give me free eSignal charting. If I get a notion to enter a longer term trade I'll do it with Gain. On a longer term trade my profit target is generally a few hundred pips and Gain's higher spreads become less significant.
If I'm trading intraday and am shooting for 20-40 pips I'd rather use my Oanda account for:
1) tighter spreads
2) fast execution
I also have a small account with IBFX because I like to do some chart work on MT4. And I also like the idea that my IBFX account is tied to a companion savings account with Zion's bank. I can transfer my forex funds into the savings/checking and withdraw any time with a debit card.
These are a few of my reasons for multiple accounts, along with coscorp's reason of spreading risk.

Sounds reasonable. And thanks for the explanation. After I'm done demoing (that means, after I will be making more profits than losses for a few months), I'll open just one account for starters, since I only plan to deposit a couple of thousands and trade once or twice per week.
  • #40
  • Jan 2, 2008 8:49am Jan 2, 2008 8:49am
All good answers and reasons for using more than one broker. Thanks everyone.

As for coscorp:

Quoting coscorp
regarding the rest...I find it a bit hard to believe anyone would accept the broker trading against their positions....what if one has 50 lots up...and gets stopped out ? That's a fair amount of cash..and all that aside..it's unethical...and skews the market always in their favour...like playing at the casino with weighted dice and being ok with it....
They can do it because, as you pointed out, Forex is an unregulated market.

Yes, it's unethical. Yes, it skews the market in their favor. But, that will continue to happen until regulation becomes a reality.

You may find it hard to believe, but a few minutes perusing these forums will tell you how often it happens.

Of course, not every broker does it. But, enough do it to cause an uproar.
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