URGENT Warning from Joe Ross

Thanks for posting that article. Where did Joe Ross get a chart of FXCM volume? I have some questions about his stats.

I have the same opinion as tiki and johnedoe.
I don´t know from where Joe Ross has his volumes. Can you say something about the volume in FX trading ? IMHO, no.

I also don´t know, why a person like Joe Ross has to say something like that...

Joe Ross got his volumes from the same place he gets the rest of his information - he takes notes when he is in la la land ... Dreamworld!

As for why Joe Ross would say something like that, you only have to get to understand the kind of things Joe Ross says.

1) Is Joe Ross a trading Guru?
2) Does Joe Ross thrive on publicity?
3) Does Joe Ross spread mis-information?
4) Does Joe Ross run paid-for seminars?
5) Does Joe Ross have a cult folllowing?
6) Does Joe Ross post on the forums of others?

and:

1) Does Joe Ross respond to posts?
2) Does Joe Ross engage in discussion?
3) Does Joe Ross welcome critique of his statements?
4) Does Joe Ross have any respect from his peers?
5) Does Joe Ross have a transparent personal trading record?
6) Does Joe Ross offer any proof whatsoever that his techniques are superior to others?

This is a man who built his following from his original ideas - ideas that he does not have the ticker to discuss openly. Even from the cover of his own forum, he expels anyone who asks a ticklish question.

Proof?

Consider this. Joe is big on cliche and maxims, but small on evidence and example to back it up. On March 13th 2004 he wrote:

"I am a trader, author, educator and businessman. I began my career in the commodity futures markets in 1957, so I have been trading for more than 46 years. I have traded everything that’s out there: Stocks, Options, Futures, e-minis, Spreads, Forex…

In 1988, I formed my own company to train aspiring traders in the futures, bonds, and currency markets. I have trained more than 2,000 traders personally in my seminars, and many more have read the books I have written about Stock and Futures Trading.

I still tutor, teach, write, and trade regularly."

But as a teacher, he does not stack up, because he is unable to answer simple questions. I was a member of his forum, and asked a question requiring an example to back up a claim. I was asked to either conform or leave.

I left.

Some teaching that was.

And so it seems the legend of Joe Ross, "trader, author, educator and businessman" was born. Joe Ross has his tentacles in many countries via his many franchised "teaching" outlets, that continue to fool traders who are wishing to enter the trading arena.

Joe Does not respond publicly, because he understands the psychology of defending himself. It is far worse for him to attract further negative publicity, through defensive posting, than it is to simply let people have their day, and then ignore it while it dies away.

My only beef with Joe is that he is a hollow man who does not have the ticker to offer dialogue on his "principles" and theories. I will never say they are wrong, bad, or even unworkable, though all three they may be. We may never know.

But it never hurt anyone to offer a little clarity, justification, example or evidence when requested to do so by an enquirer. That, to me is journalistic license and cowardice, to put a word on it.

Further, he has done a great job in demolishing the reputation of the late Bruce Babcock, who offered a fair, but critical review of Ross' work. Babcock died before he was able to refute counter claims by Ross, and since then the Ross juggernaut has rolled on unchallenged, and will continue to do so. Babcock had his reasons for criticising Ross - and I remember Ross being caught out in contradicting himself.

All is not well with this man's teachings, and I simply alert people to that possibility. When handing over $3000 or more for "training" ... best to have a quiet chat with someone who has reaped the rewards (or not) of that training. The proof is in the pudding.

This is a link to a fair critique of Ross:

http://www.webtrading.com/ross.htm

It bears reading in full. Ross wrote on 14th March 2004:

"Bruce Babcock's negative comments about me are a total fabrication.

I will not dignify this man's lies with any further comments."

Did Joe Ross sell a horse racing system with "83% winners?

Is this the same Joe Ross, or someone with the same name, same age and same address? :

"In response to that review, a longtime customer pointed out that the following testimonial appears in Ken Roberts' marketing materials (Roberts has been selling a beginner's trading course for a number of years):


"I owe you a lot, Ken, for having introduced me to the world's most profitable and best business. After completing my three months, as of June 1st, I am a professional trader. It's what I do for a living. This may very well be the last bastion of true capitalism in the U.S. It's fantastic! - JR., age 53, Lee's Summit, Missouri."

Lee's Summit is the former address of Joe Ross, who was born in 1935. In his first book, Ross wrote something quite similar: "Trading commodities ... is the best business in the world. I earn my living in what is probably the last vestige of true capitalism in the world." In Trading Is a Business, he calls it "the last bastion of true entrepreneurial capitalism in the free world."


While Joe publicly denied that he was author of that testimonial, my informant (whom I consider completely reliable) said Ross had privately admitted that he had in fact written to Roberts and that he was quite embarrassed by it."

We may never know ... Bruce Babcock is no longer able to answer for himself, or proffer further information, but it is likely this is the same Joe Ross:

"By the time I was 11, I was a hard-nosed businessman. I was lending money to my parents, and I loaned them enough to help them move us out of the slums."

and so is this the same Joe Ross:

"Here's how Ross describes himself in his sales literature. "I was trained as a trader by my family. They started trading the commodity markets in 1889. That's over 100 years ago. I was taught the family secrets, and am now in my 34th year of trading. That's enough years in a career for anyone, don't you agree?"

I find it interesting that Ross claims to be using his successful "family secrets" yet was so poor that he had to steal the route of another paper boy - yes, bullying and intimidation is how he himself describes his activities

"I waited for that kid and beat the crap out of him and told him I was taking over his route. He never came back, and the next day I got the route, it had 100 customers."

So he loaned his family the money to move out of the slums, from the proceeds of crime, not the proceeds of trading the "family secrets" in the markets!!!.

His story of his time as a debt-collector, and his stand-over methods is also a ripper!

I am unsure I would be doing business with someone like this. Maybe he is still "ripping"?

But in any case, Buce Babcock wrote the review for the CTSC it seems, which was quite a reputable source in that time ... still seems to be. And Ross has never been able to successfully live it down.

Regardless of whether the article is true or not, there are enough disciples out there to keep the Ross business machine rolling along. And if the story of Joe Ross the stand-over muscle-man debt-collector is true, it gels quite nicely with Joe Ross attitude of today.

Only the reader can decide if the article is true. My experience of Joe Ross would suggest to me that it is. The reader is invited to make up their own mind on it.

I am always happy when a guru with no available track record which pretend to call simple patterns the" law of the charts" get hammered by a documented review . We have enough of scammer and self proclaimed super trader!
Selling trading course ? Please show your record!!! but no 3 months !