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Indicator Free Trading - Skunny

  • #21
  • Dec 12, 2007 7:47am Dec 12, 2007 7:47am
Quoting blueruby
This is a recurring piece of advice I've been too lazy to take. Time to get on with it.

I'm not finding the Vhands EA, is it a trading simulator?

Using F12 on MT4 isn't too bad a way to go about it, but changing timeframes is really cumbersome. I suppose sticking to one t/f is still good exercise.

Help me out here, what's a good way to do this?

Ok, but I can't help you with installation questions. All the info is here and you can refer to metaquotes site for more help if you need. Alpari offers all the history data you need for all the pairs.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 vTerminal.mq4   < 1 KB | 2,727 downloads
File Type: pdf vTerminal.pdf   923 KB | 5,510 downloads
File Type: mq4 VisualTestingTools.mq4   26 KB | 2,570 downloads
File Type: mq4 vHistory.mq4   < 1 KB | 2,424 downloads
File Type: mq4 vHandsTrade.mq4   72 KB | 2,911 downloads
File Type: pdf Testing Visualization_Trade History.pdf   722 KB | 4,248 downloads
File Type: pdf Testing Visualization.pdf   888 KB | 4,066 downloads
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  • #22
  • Dec 12, 2007 7:53am Dec 12, 2007 7:53am
Is a Trendline, support and resistance also an indicator to make a decission?

Just a question...
Trainee at UBS Investment Banking
  • #23
  • Dec 12, 2007 7:59am Dec 12, 2007 7:59am
Quoting th_ngue21
Is a Trendline, support and resistance also an indicator to make a decission?

Just a question...
The way I look at is, there are trading tools and there are indicators.

Tools are stable and precise. Indicators are used to read history giving you information you would otherwise know if you had followed the market. Good question.
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  • #24
  • Dec 12, 2007 8:01am Dec 12, 2007 8:01am
Quoting th_ngue21
Is a Trendline, support and resistance also an indicator to make a decission?

Just a question...

Sorry, so the answer is no, trend lines that are drawn are a visual indication of where s/r happens to be. Like a crayon
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  • #25
  • Dec 12, 2007 8:14am Dec 12, 2007 8:14am
Quoting bobblong
Thanks for your reply,

However I'm not clear on what you meant so refer to the chart below and tell me if that was your intention. We see the second bar penetrated and retraced for a possible few pips into the next bar and then we have the break. Where is the trading opportunity on the break?

Regarding the topic of the thread.. Trading with high accuracy is the only reason I want to trade.. and do believe that exceptional win rate is very possible for those who have the right edge.. perhaps not 100% but way up there somewhere..

Bob
I must need more sleep Yes you had it right in theory, just not a good place to do it. Sorry for the confusion.
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  • #26
  • Dec 12, 2007 8:15am Dec 12, 2007 8:15am
Quoting Skunny
Sorry, so the answer is no, trend lines that are drawn are a visual indication of where s/r happens to be. Like a crayon
Trading without the trendline, support or ressistance indicators is possible too. Make sure you know how price data move. Their movements are very logical to follow but hard to understand. Once you know how price data works, you can trade partime without the charts. Use Microsoft Excel only!

Trainee at UBS Investment Banking
  • #27
  • Dec 12, 2007 8:19am Dec 12, 2007 8:19am
Quoting th_ngue21
Trading without the trendline, support or ressistance indicators is possible too. Make sure you know how price data move. Their movements are very logical to follow but hard to understand. Once you know how price data works, you can trade partime without the charts. Use Microsoft Excel only!


I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds like a great topic if you know how to teach it. Thanks for sharing.
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  • #28
  • Dec 12, 2007 9:05am Dec 12, 2007 9:05am
Quoting bobblong
Thanks for your reply,

However I'm not clear on what you meant so refer to the chart below and tell me if that was your intention. We see the second bar penetrated and retraced for a possible few pips into the next bar and then we have the break. Where is the trading opportunity on the break?

Regarding the topic of the thread.. Trading with high accuracy is the only reason I want to trade.. and do believe that exceptional win rate is very possible for those who have the right edge.. perhaps not 100% but way up there somewhere..

Bob
Hey Bobb here is an example that we just experienced on GU in regards to our previous discussion. On the chart, these lines were drawn long before any news announcement. If you know where the price will go/stop it makes for an easier trading day. You can do this to, but it takes practice and patience.


How many traders do you think thought this was a random place to stop? Chaotic? This isn't the best example because of the leak last night about the Fed's having another punch they were going to throw today. Which is why I wasn't trading. (posting a bunch of crap instead)lol.

EDITED: I did not take this trade BTW.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gu.gif Size: 17 KB
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  • #29
  • Dec 12, 2007 9:22am Dec 12, 2007 9:22am
Quoting Skunny
Hey Bobb here is an example that we just experienced on GU in regards to our previous discussion. On the chart, these lines were drawn long before any news announcement. If you know where the price will go/stop it makes for an easier trading day. You can do this to, but it takes practice and patience.
.
Ok that's very interesting Skunny. I've watched the effect of 100's of news events as they happen, many times they stop at a significant point or round number or .50 . Are you using any sort of order flow information?
Looking back at the g/u charts I see there is a resistance where you had marked it at 2.0595 and your target is 20 pips below that, was that because of the 'peaky price action' around that 0595 area which popped down to 0574? or perhaps simply line of most resistance take away a few pips.. please do share how you arrive at the target projections (short porjection too) if you don't mind.


Cheers.
  • #30
  • Dec 12, 2007 9:29am Dec 12, 2007 9:29am
Quoting blueruby

Sometimes it goes your way and you get an extra 50 out of the trade. I've had it happen each way quite a few times. Sometimes luck does come into play, good or bad.
I wont name this luck (bad or good) i would call it fate. The difference between the two is that luck would describe an event that could have occured or not depending on other external factors (it is more close to chaos).

Fate would describe an event that would have occured whatever happens (like a big US company having to pay the salaries in his EU branch and for that having to convert $ to € at a given hour or the day )
  • #31
  • Dec 12, 2007 9:40am Dec 12, 2007 9:40am
Quoting bobblong
Ok that's very interesting Skunny. I've watched the effect of 100's of news events as they happen, many times they stop at a significant point or round number or .50 . Are you using any sort of order flow information?
Looking back at the g/u charts I see there is a resistance where you had marked it at 2.0595 and your target is 20 pips below that, was that because of the 'peaky price action' around that 0595 area which popped down to 0574? or perhaps simply line of most resistance take away a few pips.. please do share how you arrive at the target projections (short porjection too) if you don't mind.


Cheers.
No order flow, market flow. I've said it before, but it bares repeating often. The market is predetermined it's not random or chaotic, it has trading ranges that change constantly. Meaning, new support and resistance area are forming with every movement. If you don't follow along you are using poor information to make your trades. That's why a trade works one time and not another making money management crucial.
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  • #32
  • Dec 12, 2007 9:47am Dec 12, 2007 9:47am
Quoting Skunny

Maybe the Moley Quail or something...I don't know.
Moley Quail !!!

Love it.

Hey Skunny.

I believe that you have found something very special.

Something I have been trying to put my finger on for a while.

I am watching this thread with great interest.

Keep up the good work

Frank
  • #33
  • Dec 12, 2007 9:48am Dec 12, 2007 9:48am
Quoting Skunny
Hey Bobb here is an example that we just experienced on GU in regards to our previous discussion. On the chart, these lines were drawn long before any news announcement. If you know where the price will go/stop it makes for an easier trading day. You can do this to, but it takes practice and patience.


How many traders do you think thought this was a random place to stop? Chaotic? This isn't the best example because of the leak last night about the Fed's having another punch they were going to throw today. Which is why I wasn't trading. (posting a bunch of crap instead)lol.

EDITED: I did not take this trade BTW.
Looks like 7th degree fractals to me.
  • #34
  • Dec 12, 2007 9:50am Dec 12, 2007 9:50am
Quoting melpheos
I wont name this luck (bad or good) i would call it fate. The difference between the two is that luck would describe an event that could have occured or not depending on other external factors (it is more close to chaos).

Fate would describe an event that would have occured whatever happens (like a big US company having to pay the salaries in his EU branch and for that having to convert $ to € at a given hour or the day )
I call it a random event -- it was outside the probabilities of the trade, and outside of normal movement. (Or so it would seem - skunny might teach us differently.)

If it goes your way, it was good luck. There could have just as easily been a big company make it go the other way, since it was a random event.

BTW, where is the key for that snazzy little euro symbol?
  • #35
  • Dec 12, 2007 9:58am Dec 12, 2007 9:58am
Quoting blueruby
I call it a random event -- it was outside the probabilities of the trade, and outside of normal movement. (Or so it would seem - skunny might teach us differently.)

If it goes your way, it was good luck. There could have just as easily been a big company make it go the other way, since it was a random event.

BTW, where is the key for that snazzy little euro symbol?
Normaly it's AltGr+e

Otherwise you can use Alt+0128
  • #36
  • Dec 12, 2007 10:12am Dec 12, 2007 10:12am
Quoting Skunny
No order flow, market flow. I've said it before, but it bares repeating often. The market is predetermined it's not random or chaotic, it has trading ranges that change constantly. Meaning, new support and resistance area are forming with every movement. If you don't follow along you are using poor information to make your trades. That's why a trade works one time and not another making money management crucial.
It's pretty obvious the market is constantly forming s/r.. that's all good but that still tells us null regarding your upside projection... unless it is based on old information
  • #37
  • Dec 12, 2007 10:53am Dec 12, 2007 10:53am
Quoting bobblong
It's pretty obvious the market is constantly forming s/r.. that's all good but that still tells us null regarding your upside projection... unless it is based on old information
All valuable information comes from previously formed data.

What I'm trying to help with (at the start) is how you perceive the market. If I start talking about how I projected that stop area we get into a can of worms that takes a lot of time to teach. I don't have that time right now, unfortunately. I'm just showing you what's possible.

So, if it's possible, can you trade to 100%....this is a thinking mans game. With great quality control (eliminating human error) I think it can be done. But what do I know.

When I have a trade go sour it is a result of my errors. I can retrace the move after and see where I was at fault. Most traders (correct me if I'm wrong) have some difficulty accomplishing this task. Thus, they have nothing to fix. It just becomes a game of odds.
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  • #38
  • Dec 12, 2007 10:55am Dec 12, 2007 10:55am
Quoting smjones
Looks like 7th degree fractals to me.
Hey Scott, don't be getting all technical now...lol
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  • #39
  • Dec 12, 2007 11:18am Dec 12, 2007 11:18am
Quoting Skunny
Hey Scott, don't be getting all technical now...lol
LOL, there is a nice symmetry there though...
  • #40
  • Dec 12, 2007 11:56am Dec 12, 2007 11:56am
Nice to see you starting a thread here. Someone needs to do it and try to explaign the concept of learning the market and how it moves first before method hopping to find what works and doesnt work.Ive done it...you know the saying "If I knew then what I know now", you can save alot of soon to be traders the headache of blowing out an account.When I first started I thought I knew what I was doing and started with a live account, we'll we all know that story..anyway a few thousand dollars later I figured out I better demo until I do know what Im doing.
Me it took 3 years just to become profitable, but I stuck to it because I could see the potential and knew that I could do this.I spent many many hours studying backtesting and forward testing.To this day I still retrade the market over and over again after hours during the weekends and off days but that is what it takes to develope your skills.The only way to do this is over time and that builds experience.
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