Please, 95% of traders don't lose their accounts! | Page 2 | Forex Factory

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Please, 95% of traders don't lose their accounts!

  • #21
  • Edited 11:00am Nov 7, 2007 8:35am | Edited 11:00am
Quoting soultrader
A medicine man will train for about 7 years before he/she is qualified to say 'im a doctor' and even then will get ongoing training - a lawyer 5 years plus before he gets to say 'im a bloodsucking bastard' - how long is the training course to make a million a year as a trader? - certainly no less than those mentioned before one can truly say 'im someone who has a clue'.
one of the (few) crappy things about being a professional trader is how people shit on your profession. every time a noobie talks about how easy it is to make 100% per year, they are shitting directly on my years of hard work LOL. this happens all the time and in many forms, novices seem to have very little respect for the men who really know the game. its really strange. imagine a first year medical student telling a seasoned surgeon that he is not doing his surgeries fast enough - it would never happen! anyone can call themselves a "trader" because we have no formal procedure for becoming a trader. and this lack of formality produces some really arrogant and naive comments about the profession of trading. </end rant>
Relax and be happy.
  • #22
  • Nov 7, 2007 9:07am Nov 7, 2007 9:07am
that is soooo true Merlin.

trouble is i think you have to be an arrogant SOB to be attracted to this business.

most join the game in search of quick riches with little effort (i know i did) but most leave providing the slow accumulation of profits to those around the longest.

it's a shame that those learning do not recognise that their ego and stubbornness drives many professionals away from places such as this. There's only so long you try to help and then just think - F*&^k em.

trouble is it's a lonely game.

I spend most of the day in a voice room with a bunch of Pro's - just about 5 of us - but with just 5 the conversation dries up

Merlin - ever thought of a general chat room for the site? - maybe in Paltalk? happy to set one up if anyone wants to join in.
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #23
  • Edited 2:35pm Nov 7, 2007 2:24pm | Edited 2:35pm
Quoting merlin

novices seem to have very little respect for the men who really know the game.
It's funny this point comes up today.
Just this morning I first wrote and then deleted two posts I made replying to some people saying things to that end, because I thought it was all rather pointless trying to convince people of something they won't ever understand until they actually do it/"get there"...

(I compared it to people who saw the moonlanding on tv going to a bar, meeting Buzz Aldrin per chance, and without knowing it's him telling him what it's really like to land and walk on the moon..and constantly berating him of what it's REALLY like when he tries to get a word in edgewise..)

This particular case was a fight over whether or not stop hunting existed(as a trading form e.g.) and one guy who actually traded it and made money from it was then in turn told by at least two others that it's nonsense, he couldn't really be doing what he was doing and in essence he really must be a time space paradox and impossible, since opinions always trump reality, which then in turn just succumbs and goes "plopp!" and makes it so as the people denying things wish.

Because thinking you know something always makes you smarter than the people that have actually gone and done it already. You just got to believe in it really, really hard. So that you don't run the actual risk of the dire crisis that would be actually changing your mind and being open instead of stuck.(this is the part where I can splendidly refer to my 5 stages thread next door)

But the good thing is - whatever you believe will end up your reality. For better (those that believe in an enabling way) or for worse (for those who prefer enjoying limited beliefs).

P.S. considering I went and deleted the posts again I wonder how close to ST's "There's only so long you try to help and then just think - F*&^k em." I am. I feel I am pretty close sometimes. Just that mine usually goes more like "Sod em, I'm going back to the place where people actually WANT to learn" Yepp, wonderland does exist. And it's a good thing.
Trust price. Know yourself.
  • #24
  • Nov 7, 2007 5:18pm Nov 7, 2007 5:18pm
Quoting philmcgrew
That's funny! Only if you can answer yes to one of Captain Oveur's other questions to Joey in the airplane cockpit.
"Ever seen a grown man ......... Joey?"
  • #25
  • Nov 7, 2007 7:49pm Nov 7, 2007 7:49pm
Quoting philmcgrew
I am tired of hearing that 95% of traders lose money in Forex.

Seriously, just because you made a forex trade you are not a trader.

Have you ever withdrawn actual profits from your account? No

Do you use stoplosses? No
with this 2 answer i shall claim my self as a common people....

the retail effect is gruesome isn't it, anyone feel guilty for killing an ant?
  • #26
  • Nov 7, 2007 8:13pm Nov 7, 2007 8:13pm
Quoting merlin
one of the (few) crappy things about being a professional trader is how people shit on your profession. every time a noobie talks about how easy it is to make 100% per year, they are shitting directly on my years of hard work LOL. this happens all the time and in many forms, novices seem to have very little respect for the men who really know the game. its really strange. imagine a first year medical student telling a seasoned surgeon that he is not doing his surgeries fast enough - it would never happen! anyone can call themselves a "trader" because we have no formal procedure for becoming a trader. and this lack of formality produces some really arrogant and naive comments about the profession of trading. </end rant>
Sometimes it depends on the person. There are some bright ones out there who have been fortunate enough to be guided (and I don't necessarily mean by a mentor). I wouldn't say there are many but I could count a few on one hand.
  • #27
  • Nov 8, 2007 1:21am Nov 8, 2007 1:21am
Quoting Zoran
Sometimes it depends on the person. There are some bright ones out there who have been fortunate enough to be guided (and I don't necessarily mean by a mentor). I wouldn't say there are many but I could count a few on one hand.
the tools in retail level are accessible by everyone that can use internet, easy to use, and the cheap starting price is affordable by many,.... the result of failed, unfortunate, uneducated victim is inevitable/encouraged.

it is easy to use, but hard to master, no?
  • #28
  • Nov 8, 2007 2:09am Nov 8, 2007 2:09am
Question: how many "traders", bearing in mind Phil's no-nonsense stance on the terminology, will manage to secure a considerable profit (let's say 30% average yearly returns on capital) in their first years of trading? And for how long do most of these boys maintain that profitability? And isn't it true that the average career-expectancy for traders who are actually in the industry (i.e not trading from home desks) is about five years..before they are axed?

From what I have heard from other traders and from veterans, the Joe Professional Investor is only slightly more disciplined than the average forum junkie with a few months experience. And probably not much more profitable. Sadly, even "trained" individuals seem to be fixated on insensible ideas and groundless prejudices. I think Phil has too much faith in speculators (and make no mistake, we are in the business of speculation).
Virtue finds and chooses the mean. Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
  • #29
  • Dec 15, 2007 6:48pm Dec 15, 2007 6:48pm
Quoting Plutonite
Sadly, even "trained" individuals seem to be fixated on insensible ideas and groundless prejudices.
so true! i hear the darndest remarks from some real wallstreet veterans, especially the non-statistical, pure discretionary traders. they talk about all kinds of baseless mantras and beliefs, sometimes even making nursery rhymes for them! and the successful guys, they are the worst! because they make money, they think that every idea they perpetuate is correct! makes for some really enjoyable conversation, i might add
Relax and be happy.
  • #30
  • Dec 15, 2007 8:49pm Dec 15, 2007 8:49pm
Quoting philmcgrew
...

Seriously, just because you made a forex trade you are not a trader.

...
Phil, I couldn't agree more. Trading is so easy that makes people believe they are real trades.

Well said buddy, well said.
  • #31
  • Dec 16, 2007 6:58pm Dec 16, 2007 6:58pm
Little known forex trader Tiki Trader attempts daring escape from Turkish prison... .. self inflicted wounds suggests he tried to remove his own appendix... ... investigators who found the packaging of a small one man airplane kit in his cell, say no instructions to assemble the craft were found... ...Tiki Trader is listed as having only a 5% chance of survival... perhaps 6% at the outside...
  • #32
  • Jan 8, 2008 3:08am Jan 8, 2008 3:08am
if trader allows to lose 20% of an account and goes on trading, that is not a trader

The one who blows up an account is not a trader


so judge who is trader and who not
kiss the trend
  • #33
  • Jan 8, 2008 3:59am Jan 8, 2008 3:59am
No comments!
  • #34
  • Edited 1:06pm Oct 22, 2009 1:09am | Edited 1:06pm
Quoting Zoran
It really depends on the definition of a "trader". I'd say 95% of people in this game lose. Most would be gamblers or perhaps amature traders - lacking the knowledge to be profitable. When someone mentions the 95% statistic, I don't think they are referring to the professional or seasoned trader alone.
Zoran:

An old thread, but having read through it, I believe Zoran
that your thoughts are correct - for most who quote/read that statistic, professionalism is of no relevance.
The import of the statistic is that: Of those who have risked
money trading, it is understood that about 95% will lose
the money they have invested.

..
  • #35
  • Oct 22, 2009 1:50am Oct 22, 2009 1:50am
Quoting philmcgrew
I am tired of hearing that 95% of traders lose money in Forex.

Seriously, just because you made a forex trade you are not a trader.

Does your tax return say you are a trader?
Have you ever withdrawn actual profits from your account?
Do you have a trading plan?
Do you track expenses?
Do you record your trades?
Do you keep a journal?
Do you treat trading like a business?
Do you enjoy trading?
Do you evaluate your equity curve?
Do you properly position size?
Do you use stoplosses?
Do you test your ideas before you trade?
Have you...

What a useless pedantic argument. We all know what is meant by 95% losers speach. I think you have missed the point.

Edit: Just looked at the date of the thread . I'll get my coat.
  • #36
  • Last Post: Oct 22, 2009 6:12am Oct 22, 2009 6:12am
Wow. Old thread but the topic is as pertinent to the field as 2 yrs ago when posted.

The " most traders that lose money" topic, that is.

Since that time, many a bona-fide trader, not home gamers,
but serious-get-up at 1am-go-downtown-get-off-my-phone-i'm trading- type traders
lost their ass since then. Aug/Sept/Oct 2008 seems to be a time when
many a familiar trader took a powder, along with countless small speculators.
It was kind of like going to hell. Everybody got the same pitchfork in their behind.

This time, it wasn't even rampant fraud that took everyone's money,
although there was plenty of that to go round. No, this time the market itself
just slashed and burned everything in its path; we had some sizable moves late last year, you know.
Many weren't prepared for the volatility. VIX got up to 80.
No matter how strong one was with their money management, the environment was difficult.

So, I think many a true trader could have experienced a losing year last year,
yet, i'd still consider them one of the tribe, because they're still a' kickin' and still trading.
Like firemen that run into burning buildings, they managed to not get killed and still get the job done.

True, many left because their company changed hands and they chose not to
put up with some new people trying to tell them what they can or cant do.
But real traders, the ones with real talent, those are the money makers.
They continue as traders one way or another because that's what they do, they trade.

Why would you ever want to do anything else ?
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