Please, 95% of traders don't lose their accounts! | Forex Factory

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Please, 95% of traders don't lose their accounts!

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 4:40pm Nov 6, 2007 3:04pm | Edited 4:40pm
I am tired of hearing that 95% of traders lose money in Forex.

Seriously, just because you made a forex trade you are not a trader.

Does your tax return say you are a trader?
Have you ever withdrawn actual profits from your account?
Do you have a trading plan?
Do you track expenses?
Do you record your trades?
Do you keep a journal?
Do you treat trading like a business?
Do you enjoy trading?
Do you evaluate your equity curve?
Do you properly position size?
Do you use stoplosses?
Do you test your ideas before you trade?
Have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
Are you a student of the market?
Do you study and stay proficient in psychology and self-analysis?

Here are some similar and equally disturbing statistics:

95% of all people who try to remove their own appendix die. Does that mean 95% of all surgeons are failures?

95% of all people who fly airplanes without instruction crash their first time up. Does that mean 95% of all pilots are failures?

95% of all people who represent themselves at murder trials get convicted. Does that mean 95% of all lawyers are failures?

95% of all civilians with no formal combat training get shot during battles in war zones. Does that mean 95% of soldiers are failures?

95% of all fire respondents not associated with a fire department lose their eyebrows in burning buildings. Does that mean 95% of all firefighters are failures?

95% of all circus audience participants fall from the highwire and are trampled by elephants wearing tutus. Does that mean 95% of all highwire artists are failures?

Just because you failed at forex trading doesn't mean that you were one of us to begin with.
  • #2
  • Nov 6, 2007 3:39pm Nov 6, 2007 3:39pm
Damn Phil,

Just when I thought that I WAS a trader, I see I have not met all the criteria.

Unfortunately, I have not had the honor of enjoying the hospitality bestowed upon those fortunate individuals, lucky enough to have enjoyed an extended stay in a Turkish Prison.

Just when I thought this business was tough enough, another hurdle I must overcome.

I hope the dollar recovers somewhat by the time I get back

Fxj
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
  • #3
  • Nov 6, 2007 3:45pm Nov 6, 2007 3:45pm
Hats off to ya mate

I nomite this for best post of the year
  • #4
  • Nov 6, 2007 3:47pm Nov 6, 2007 3:47pm
Quoting FxJarhead
Unfortunately, I have not had the honor of enjoying the hospitality bestowed upon those fortunate individuals, lucky enough to have enjoyed an extended stay in a Turkish Prison.

Fxj
I had to throw in a line from the greatest movie ever just to see if anyone actually read my rant.
  • #5
  • Nov 6, 2007 4:01pm Nov 6, 2007 4:01pm
phil, you are amazing. this stupid 95% cliche has bothered me for so long...and i never could properly express why. you nailed it my friend. i feel like a weight is lifted off my shoulders LOL.
Relax and be happy.
  • #6
  • Nov 6, 2007 4:04pm Nov 6, 2007 4:04pm
Quoting philmcgrew
I had to throw in a line from the greatest movie ever just to see if anyone actually read my rant.
Great post. Also 95% of all stats are made up... Oh and don't call me Shirley.
  • #7
  • Nov 6, 2007 4:07pm Nov 6, 2007 4:07pm
Quoting turbokaos
I nomite this for best post of the year
if phil had a signal service, even chuck norris would subscribe
Relax and be happy.
  • #8
  • Nov 6, 2007 4:10pm Nov 6, 2007 4:10pm
Some say the right figure is 94% lol
  • #9
  • Nov 6, 2007 4:32pm Nov 6, 2007 4:32pm
Hey, stop that, if not for those 95%, how would we be able to collect all those pips?! I bet you didn't think of that, lol
Great Post
  • #10
  • Nov 6, 2007 4:53pm Nov 6, 2007 4:53pm
Quoting philmcgrew
Here are some similar and equally disturbing statistics:

95% of all people who try to remove their own appendix die. Does that mean 95% of all surgeons are failures?
This example is not good, because in fact the rate of SUCCESS on this particular surgery when being self-performed is close to 100%. I have heard of three such attempts, even knew one guy personally, but each of them was successful.
  • #11
  • Nov 6, 2007 4:56pm Nov 6, 2007 4:56pm
Quoting Igrok
This example is not good, because in fact the rate of SUCCESS on this particular surgery when being self-performed is close to 100%. I have heard of three such attempts, even knew one guy personally, but each of them was successful.
This should help
http://www.louisck.com/appendixremoval.htm
  • #12
  • Nov 6, 2007 5:07pm Nov 6, 2007 5:07pm
Quoting Igrok
This example is not good, because in fact the rate of SUCCESS on this particular surgery when being self-performed is close to 100%. I have heard of three such attempts, even knew one guy personally, but each of them was successful.
My research comes from reading this procedure. This describes a 2 person operation and still has a questionalbe outcome.

Rats! Turbo beat me to the same guide.
  • #13
  • Nov 6, 2007 6:26pm Nov 6, 2007 6:26pm
Quoting philmcgrew
I am tired of hearing that 95% of traders lose money in Forex...
Just because 95% of people who read this will disbelieve does not make it untrue.
way ta go Phil.
{geez. Now, I guess, we will be requested to Post our Tax Returns to Prove we Trade.}
  • #14
  • Nov 6, 2007 7:09pm Nov 6, 2007 7:09pm
Quoting philmcgrew
I am tired of hearing that 95% of traders lose money in Forex.
It really depends on the definition of a "trader". I'd say 95% of people in this game lose. Most would be gamblers or perhaps amature traders - lacking the knowledge to be profitable. When someone mentions the 95% statistic, I don't think they are referring to the professional or seasoned trader alone.
  • #15
  • Nov 7, 2007 12:57am Nov 7, 2007 12:57am
Quoting philmcgrew
I am tired of hearing that 95% of traders lose money in Forex.

Seriously, just because you made a forex trade you are not a trader.

Does your tax return say you are a trader?
Have you ever withdrawn actual profits from your account?
Do you have a trading plan?
Do you track expenses?
Do you record your trades?
Do you keep a journal?
Do you treat trading like a business?
Do you enjoy trading?
Do you evaluate your equity curve?
Do you properly position size?
Do you use stoplosses?
Do you test your ideas before you trade?
Have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
Are you a student of the market?
Do you study and stay proficient in psychology and self-analysis?

Here are some similar and equally disturbing statistics:

95% of all people who try to remove their own appendix die. Does that mean 95% of all surgeons are failures?

95% of all people who fly airplanes without instruction crash their first time up. Does that mean 95% of all pilots are failures?

95% of all people who represent themselves at murder trials get convicted. Does that mean 95% of all lawyers are failures?

95% of all civilians with no formal combat training get shot during battles in war zones. Does that mean 95% of soldiers are failures?

95% of all fire respondents not associated with a fire department lose their eyebrows in burning buildings. Does that mean 95% of all firefighters are failures?

95% of all circus audience participants fall from the highwire and are trampled by elephants wearing tutus. Does that mean 95% of all highwire artists are failures?

Just because you failed at forex trading doesn't mean that you were one of us to begin with.
Hi Phil,

first the saying is that 95% of MARKET PARTICIPANTS fail - can't remember it saying anything about traders.

fact is that it's actually about 98.5% according to two brokers I know and at one broker (a biggie) one FX trading desk dealer told a member of my team that in 2 years on the desk not one of his clients had won - in fact one lost over 10mio! - another broker i use quoted that they had 20 winners - this was out of over 3500 clients.

Now, lets see if I am a trader ...

Does your tax return say you are a trader? - What's a tax return? (joke)
Have you ever withdrawn actual profits from your account? - yes, most months
Do you have a trading plan? No
Do you track expenses? No
Do you record your trades? No (broker does it for me)
Do you keep a journal? No
Do you treat trading like a business? Yes
Do you enjoy trading? Sometimes
Do you evaluate your equity curve? No
Do you properly position size? Yes
Do you use stoplosses? Only when in bed
Do you test your ideas before you trade? Yes
Have you ever been in a Turkish prison? Not yet
Are you a student of the market? Yes
Do you study and stay proficient in psychology and self-analysis? sometimes

Guess I have a long way to go
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #16
  • Nov 7, 2007 7:20am Nov 7, 2007 7:20am
Quoting soultrader
Hi Phil,

first the saying is that 95% of MARKET PARTICIPANTS fail - can't remember it saying anything about traders.

fact is that it's actually about 98.5% according to two brokers I know and at one broker (a biggie) one FX trading desk dealer told a member of my team that in 2 years on the desk not one of his clients had won - in fact one lost over 10mio! - another broker i use quoted that they had 20 winners - this was out of over 3500 clients.
You need to venture outside of the trading room once in a while. Do a search for "95% lose" here on FF and you will get 45 pages of returns. Granted, not everyone of them discuss trading failures but an alarming amount of them do. And, they don't say "market participants," they say "traders."

The point of my post was to say there is a distinction between a trader and a participant. Trading is a profession and like all professions it requires some training. I can't think of a single skilled position in the workplace where an individual recieved all of their training from a forum and a simulator or demo.

Furthermore, I am not suggesting that you or I have to meet all the criteria to be a trader but, more often than not, a professional will meet many of them whereas a gambler or partcipant will not.
  • #17
  • Nov 7, 2007 8:03am Nov 7, 2007 8:03am
too right Phil,

A medicine man will train for about 7 years before he/she is qualified to say 'im a doctor' and even then will get ongoing training - a lawyer 5 years plus before he gets to say 'im a bloodsucking bastard' - how long is the training course to make a million a year as a trader? - certainly no less than those mentioned before one can truly say 'im someone who has a clue'.

https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #18
  • Nov 7, 2007 8:16am Nov 7, 2007 8:16am
Quoting philmcgrew

Furthermore, I am not suggesting that you or I have to meet all the criteria to be a trader but, more often than not, a professional will meet many of them whereas a gambler or partcipant will not.
Can I take this statement to mean that I can unpack my toothbrush and stay home instead of heading off to TURKEY??

Fxj

Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
  • #19
  • Nov 7, 2007 8:22am Nov 7, 2007 8:22am
Quoting FxJarhead
Can I take this statement to mean that I can unpack my toothbrush and stay home instead of heading off to TURKEY??

Fxj
Well there is no need to meet every requirement. LOL

BTW Phil is correct. the first one is the funniest of all the Airplane movies..
  • #20
  • Nov 7, 2007 8:33am Nov 7, 2007 8:33am
Quoting FxJarhead
Can I take this statement to mean that I can unpack my toothbrush and stay home instead of heading off to TURKEY??

Fxj
That's funny! Only if you can answer yes to one of Captain Oveur's other questions to Joey in the airplane cockpit.
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