MB Trading Futures - Introduction

Thanks leighsww -

I edited my previous post, I misprinted the info.

I am fully aware of the advantages and disadvantages of NDD and Dealing Desks.

I would also prefer to trade ECN, but once again with these commissions of MBtrading/efxgroup (as far as I know the highest commissions out there) you will easily find a handful retailers which are cheaper and reliable enough to trade from.

OANDA or ABNAMRO are two of them (haven't found any good broker which offer Metatrader). I have never experienced such horror scenario what jleblang described before. And @mdetlh if you like you can set your SL and TP even 0.5 pips away at both brokers.

2.08 pips PLUS the spread which I see fluctuates between 1-3 pips. And the scenario of always being able to trade between the spread to eliminate it, is good advertising but not a reality for every single trade, especially in a fast moving market.

And the Eur/Usd is about 1.5 pips for the commission PLUS 1 pip most times. Even if they offered a choice spread on this pair at all times, they're still more expensive than Oanda's 0.9 pip spread.

And as far as slippage, I've experienced slippage on market orders at EFX even when the the price on my platform never changed. The reason I was told was that price fluctuated up and then back down (in a fraction of a sec) when I placed my order. I guess it was so fast the platform never saw it...lol.

And I've been disconnected from the platform and had quotes freeze and disappear during times of fast moving markets. More or less the same type of stuff you experience everywhere.

I think EFX is on to something but I'm holding out for a while.

I simply thought Justin's "4 pips" was the commissions + the average GBPUSD spread...

oops, looks like bugscoe already pointed that out...

because it is not prohibitively high and, in the first place, practically gives you every right to go scalping. Commision broker will never declare your scalping techniques illegal.

What really sucks with MBT/EFX is their swap rates.
You can hardly leave a position open throughout a night without severe penalty, with most of pairs in both ways.

Pitty, this really is very unpleasant for a trader.

Justin

Could you please reply to my earlier request as to which platform I should dowload, or even if there is an option at this stage. It just seems silly to learn one only to learn another in the near future.
Thanks mate
Walter

Justin had originally posted "you pay a net 4 pips in commissions" (I had quoted his original post), which didn't include the spread, but he realized he accidently misprinted the info (as he noted in his post after)

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I'm not posting this to argue with anybody whether or not the commission is too high for you, because depending on your trading style and how many winners to losers you have, etc., then yes, the commission could be considered high.

I would assume it would be considered high for those that:

1) scalp or trade in smaller timeframes, thus in-and-out of trades constantly
2) have more losses than wins (and $ value of losses exceed $ value of wins)
3) have smaller pip/$ amount wins even if they exceed their losses (ex: 3 wins @ 10 pips each = 30 pips = $300, and 2 losses @ 20 pips each = 40 pips = $400 )

It might be considered more reasonable and acceptable (at least to me, anyway) for those that:

1) trade longer term and/or higher timeframes, thus trade less rounds
2) have more wins than losses (and $ value of wins exceed $ value of losses)
3) have larger pip/$ value wins even if their losses exceed their wins (ex: 3 wins @ 200 pips each = 600 pips = $6000, and 4 losses @ 50 pips each = 200 pips = $2000)

For the latter's scenario for #3 (which would be based more on on a longer term, trend-following system, although I'm sure there are people making 200 pips on retracements/reversals, as well), the calculation would be as follows:

Total 7 trades @ $20.80 RT = $145.60
$6000 - $2000 = $4000 profit
$145.60 / $4000 = 3.64% commission

Unless I did my calculations wrong (haha, my husband is the mathemetician, not me, but he's not here right now, so I'm posting this without confirming if I've done the math right, lol), paying an approx. 4% commission on profits sounds pretty reasonable to me. For me, paying 10% - 15% commission on profits is still reasonable. I've been in an industry where I've paid Reps 15% commissions, so I guess to me that's just the cost of doing business (as long as I'm not losing money in the long run).

Again, it all would depend on which above scenario you fit into to determine if the commissions become reasonable for you.

If you're a large trader, than EFX mentioned that they can negotiate a commission rate with you (or something of that nature), so that seems pretty fair to me.

When I decided to go longer term/higher timeframes (which was just a couple days ago, lol), this too, was my dilemma, so what I am doing now is looking at which pairs have trends going in the direction where the rollover will be to my advantage. Right now with the current pairs I'm trading:

EUR/USD, AUD/USD, NZD/USD, USD/JPY, EUR/JPY, USD/CAD, USD/CHF (GBP/USD I used to trade, but since it takes a larger margin, I'm leaving that pair out for now. I can trade 2 pairs for the price of just that one, lol)

... I am waiting to enter long on NZD/USD (when the timing is right ... I'm basically waiting to see if it will break through the .7736 as that seems to be a resistence level it's hit twice already) and with some of the others, I look for the lowest negative premium rate since I absolutely cannot pass up the strength of the trend. With pairs like AUD/USD (buy premium = -1.10% or even USD/CAD sell premium of -2.45% wouldn't be too unreasonable if I can get a good profit out of that trend). Oh, and EUR/JPY will also be GREAT when it resumes its upward long-term trend, cuz that one has a positive buy premium! I am certainly staying out of going short on USD/JPY though (sell premium -8.66), lol.

Anyway for the reasonable negative premiums, I figure, why give up profits just cuz the premiums are not in my favor? It's like saying, "I'm going to take a loss this year, so I don't have to pay taxes". Wouldn't that be kinda silly?

I figure, as long as I make money from the trade, then it's worth it. Do the math and see if it would be profitable for you to pay the rollover if you're in a profitable trade.

Anyway, like you, I do hope that eventually the premiums do have at least a positive premium to one side of each currency, cuz that I have to agree, the current premium rates with having negative premiums on both sides of the currency pair is a downside with EFX/MBT.

(Okay, if I've done the math wrong on any of my above scenarios, then somebody correct me, as I don't have my husband to do it today, lol).

Oh, I do want to mention ...

I'm not saying that EFX/MBT is for everybody (whether you fit which scenario), all I'm saying is that this is how I choose to look at it and until you actually do the math to calculate if the commissions and rollovers will still make trading with them profitable for you (as it certainly has to make sense) ... then don't simply disregard EFX/MBT for what you think may be unreasonable commissions if you haven't actually done the math with your actual trades, thus know for sure that you're not giving up more on the spreads elsewhere.

Your trading style/profitability may indeed be more advantageous elsewhere, I don't know, but just make sure that you KNOW this is so before jumping to conclusions.

That's all I'm sayin'

You will find that the swap rates with most ECN brokers are a LOT worse
than retail brokers. A lot of the normally +ve rates are either zero or negative with ECN brokers.

Coder

Although I'm not thrilled about all the negative rates on both sides of the currency, the more I think about why they have those rates, I guess I can see their side of it though. ECNs have to make their money/profits in some way, since they don't trade against their customers, nor make $$ off the spreads.

Since they do not make as much commissions on longer term traders, they probably need to make a little more profit on their rollover rates to compensate for not making $$ on the commissions and spreads.

I don't hold that against them. I understand it and I feel that they have to make their money somehow. It shouldn't be outrageously unreasonable, but if they have to raise it a little higher than DD brokers, than I can accept that.

I guess it all boils down to putting oneself in the other person's shoes and not only looking at everything one sided.

I would want to keep Justin getting paid along with all the other employees of his company, so they can keep up their great customer service, dedication to the improvements to their platform, etc. If that means that their paychecks come from the commissions and rollovers that I pay, then so be it. As I said, I don't find their commissions unreasonable.

Where I can minimize my outlay on how much I pay for commissions and rollovers, is by trading smarter so that my trades are profitable, and to trade currency pairs with the minimum amount of negative premiums and make sure that those trades are making more money than the premiums take out, lol.

It has to be a win-win for both sides, definitely.

If I were to dwell on only what my broker is making off me, then I take away from myself all the benefits they offer and what profit potential I could have with them.

Yes, there are many good DD brokers out there, so we each make a choice on who we give our business to based on what our needs and styles are. If you have a broker who you are happy with, then that's great, stay with them. However, if you are unhappy with your current broker then don't let getting stuck on the commissions/rollovers stand in your way and possibly dismissing a potentially great broker for you.

That's all I'm sayin'

Well Oztrader there is no real answer for this question. You will have to find the answer by yourself.

The new platform will be available and have all the options in a few months



So you have to wait

The Navigator gives you everything right now you don't have to wait.

The new platform is unknow of us at the moment we cannot say much about it.


If you learn to use the current plafform it is n ot lost because you are going to learn the orders types and other stuff that are going to be usefull for the next platform


No one can chose for you it all depends what you are looking and what the new platform is going to be.

so i shouldnt count on good swap rates,????, ive been trying to diversify my trading strategies and trying to include some long term positions carry trades and swaps, will this work at e f x please let me know everybody, where can i find there swap rates, cause it sounds like there different, thanks again

Download the EFX navigator, open the watchlist, add the pairs of your choice, add the collumns "buy premium" and "sell premium". For example, Usd/Jpy is at +2.73% / -8.66%.

But for a dedicated carry strategy those rolls are not good enough (to put it nicley). Justin said they would offer better rates soon, but that was some months ago. Apparently "high volume traders" get better swaps , according to their website, but "normal" traders dont.

That's because they aren't doing their own banking...

Shrike, Fxchant, thanks for the help, i never use those columns, that 24 pair swap you can do aint looking so good anymore, lol lol lol ROFL ill stick to tha scalpin 4 now

more trades=more commision

I think the biggest problem that EFX and other ECN's have to overcome is the mentality of the trader.

No offence to anyone as these comments are not directed at anyone in particular, but the "big boys" don't trade with retail brokers, they use ECN's or better. They don't worry about a pip here and there because they're more interested in things like true pricing, quick processing, flexible order types, Level 2 abilities, unlimited lots, no requotes, etc., etc.

The vast majority of "traders" in forums have the "nickel and dime" mentality, complaining about the little things while ignoring the bigger, more important aspects of trading. They blame their broker for every loss, trade the news with no experience (some with no Stop Losses!), and can't see the forest for the trees. Just browse the forums here and witness the number of people who do the dumbest things and blame everyone else for their losses, not the least of which is trading with a live account and then asking basic questions after the fact!

For those who see the light and know what's really important to a successful trader, EFX offers an advantage that is usually reserved for the "big boys".

Terry

Duh..

More trades = more comission (ECN)
More trades = more pips spreads (MarketMaker)

Only smart small traders knows which one is better!

For those who've been waiting to hear about non-USD account denominations, I mentioned - on the side - that I'm sticking with demos in a support request I logged yesterday until I can get a live AUD account and the reply back was that it was to be announced soon.

Justin can you confirm this? I've asked twice on this thread now.

I kinda missed the answers to these questions, I know they were asked... but if someone can just repeat the answer what justin said it would save me time searching through everything...

about Omega:

1) are there time frames less than 1 min

2) will this be real time data without lag... I read something about justing saying some kind of lag in charts of new efx navigator.. so was wondering if omega suffered same problem

3) how does it work if it is not java and runs on multiple browsers? Flash? or Web 2.0 AJAX style stuff?

4) if I missed boat on sign up for the waiting list, how long will it take until I will be able to run omega?

5) what's its official name?