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4 Hour Strategy (MACD)

  • #8,061
  • Nov 5, 2007 9:37am Nov 5, 2007 9:37am
  •  shauny
  • | Joined Jul 2007 | Status: Still learning and never gonna stop | 127 Posts
Quoting iPip
"Hi Jim i think what Shauny means is that the speed of the market on Euro has switched gears from 8 ema - which is considered fast to 21 Ema. which is still fast. But basically slower than the 8. "

Hello to all,
I have been following the thread for some time now and promised not to ask stupid questions until I was through the entire thread. I am only at page 149 from the start and have stayed up to date and current since about page 400. I have also followed Phillips lessons and Palmer's website. However, this thread is gaining momentum with all the new guys joining and trades being posted that I'm starting to panic as the pages and posts start to run away from me - just to keep up. This is of course a reflection on the work that Philip has done for us all.

So, before the thread runs away from me, and I haven't caught up with the answer............ I think I understand rhythm.........but I don't understand speed? What and how do you determine speed? What does it mean? What does speed tell us?

Thank you for your answers

iPip
hey ipip,

speed of the market basically refers to the momentum the market is traveling. In this system, we have mainly 8,21,89 MAs. Each of them is a speedgear of the market. Look at your charts for EU, you will realized price has been traveling on 8ema(fastest of all gears), and recently touched down on the 21ema(medium gear), showing a slow down of speed, however we are still in a uptrend. Right now, the EU has not touched the 89sma which will be the slowest gear.. The speed of the market allows us to anticipate the momentum the pair is moving. When we see the EU starts to touched the 21ema, we know the speed is slowing down and we will be watching the next time round it touches 21ema, because it might form a TC and continue upwards. It gives you a perspective how fast is the pair moving and how are you going to negotiate the speed, by taking it from the 8 or 21.
  • #8,062
  • Nov 5, 2007 10:04am Nov 5, 2007 10:04am
Quoting Ryanmcd
I posted several trades real-time, 5min when I took them. Go back and read.

it is not about live trades, it is about claims that this method returns 300+ pips a month, if someone makes such a claim then he should prove it live for just one month, what is the point of people making statements that this method generates X number of pips to them per month, what does they trying to proof, to proof that this method is good or that they are smart traders ?, that is fine as long as they proof it live otherwise keep you profit claims and hindsight trades to yourself and just discuss the method
  • #8,063
  • Edited 10:42am Nov 5, 2007 10:16am | Edited 10:42am
Quoting ziko123
it is not about live trades, it is about claims that this method returns 300+ pips a month, if someone makes such a claim then he should prove it live for just one month, what is the point of people making statements that this method generates X number of pips to them per month, what does they trying to proof, to proof that this method is good or that they are smart traders ?, that is fine as long as they proof it live otherwise keep you profit claims and hindsight trades to yourself and just discuss the method
Here are the trades I made since Oct2007 of which I think only 2 was not done live on the thread due to working conditions not allowing me to put it on. I have not kept book. Some of those trades were done live on skype. I have also added a Mp3 about the situation.
Thanks
Phillip
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  • #8,064
  • Nov 5, 2007 10:20am Nov 5, 2007 10:20am
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File Type: zip Knowing the System.zip   814 KB | 3,655 downloads
  • #8,065
  • Edited Nov 6, 2007 1:13am Nov 5, 2007 10:40am | Edited Nov 6, 2007 1:13am
I have gone short on eur usd

Pro: 1h chart shows trendcontination pattern, price has left the 21ema and closed below the 8 ema
4h chart shows resistance of 8ema, support of 21 will probably be broken.
Price is at a strong monthly chart resistance line.


Con: 1h chart: price could find resistance on 89 ema
4h chart: I fear a macd BOZ TC


5 nov 07 16:20 gmt

short 1,4468

sl 1,4520 (atr+20%) 2x –52

tp a 1,4420 (last settlement of price) +48

tp b 1,4370 (slightly above 89ema) +98

R:R 104:146


18:00 gmt

 the trade doesn't look too good right now. actually 2x -17
maybe I have entered too early and too hasty since there was no clear 4h indication.
a breakout could be possible since the price is in a triangle pattern.... but in which direction?
time will tell

6 oct 07 00:01 gmt
- 12 pips actually

summary:
I realize that I have entered this trade too early.
a triangle formation shows that a possible breakout is near but during the past 8 h the price
has moved around +10 and -17 pips.
on the 1 h chart: six times the price closed below the 21ema and two times above.
it has always found resistance round the 89ema, three times since trade open. the price is squeezing in.
so where do we expect the breakout to go? north or south?
actually I favour a north direction more than south because of the symmetrical triangle formation
that usually indicates a TC (see little chart attatched). that's why I'm thinking about closing the trade with
a slight loss and wait for some more obvious pattern to develop tomorrow.

trade closed 2x - 12 pips

total - 24 pips

6 nov 07 07:12gmt

looks like the idea to close the trade was right. although the sl would not have been triggered yet, I'd be heavily in minus pips.


here I have tried to use the 1h chart to predetermine the trend. don't know if I did well.

I apprechiate comments and corrections


Greetings
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  • #8,066
  • Nov 5, 2007 10:41am Nov 5, 2007 10:41am
Hello,
I just want to make sure if I am right in my analyses.
Here in 4hr chart Gbp/Jpy price broke 21.Closed below it and the came back and touched it

So based on rules now the price should go to 89 sma which is the red line in my chart with red writting.

Am I right friends?

Regards
mike
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Failure, is a wonderful teacher!
  • #8,067
  • Nov 5, 2007 10:47am Nov 5, 2007 10:47am
Phillip, you never cease to amaze me with your teaching ability! Wonderful analogy with the married couple on the mp3.

I know people say thanks a lot to you, but from the bottom of my heart THANK YOU.

merritt
"The market pays you to be disciplined"
  • #8,068
  • Nov 5, 2007 10:49am Nov 5, 2007 10:49am
Hello Philip

I've been working my way through the posts for some weeks now and have just listened to your audio 'Knowing the system' - you make perfect sense.

I have been trading a little over 2 years refining my day trading around a 15min time frame, and am still learning, whilst now adding a little more knowledge for learning a longer term method in this forum.

Trading is a marathon not a sprint!

Keep up the good work.

Ray
  • #8,069
  • Nov 5, 2007 10:55am Nov 5, 2007 10:55am
Quoting mike1349
Hello,
I just want to make sure if I am right in my analyses.
Here in 4hr chart Gbp/Jpy price broke 21.Closed below it and the came back and touched it

So based on rules now the price should go to 89 sma which is the red line in my chart with red writting.

Am I right friends?

Regards
mike
I dont know this pair well but your anticipation is correct. MACD has to give TC or if the first hour of the next 4H candle is very strong down you can use 1H to get in early. Just look at how this pair has satisfied the rule in the past. That will give you an indication of the probability of being correct
  • #8,070
  • Nov 5, 2007 11:23am Nov 5, 2007 11:23am
Quoting Phillip Nel
Here are the trades I made since Oct2007 of which I think only 2 was not done live on the thread due to working conditions not allowing me to put it on. I have not kept book. Some of those trades were done live on skype. I have also added a Mp3 about the situation.
Thanks
Phillip
where is the links for the posts of these trades so we can look at their time to see if they were live or not, for example I tried to find any post by you related to the trade on 10/31 but didn't find any,
don't tell me chatroom trades
Thanks
  • #8,071
  • Nov 5, 2007 11:53am Nov 5, 2007 11:53am
Quoting ziko123
where is the links for the posts of these trades so we can look at their time to see if they were live or not, for example I tried to find any post by you related to the trade on 10/31 but didn't find any,
don't tell me chatroom trades
Thanks
I was about to compile this for you then I realised the tone in your writings. After 536pages, 8000 posts and a rating of 145votes with a rating of 4,9 out of 5.0 I challenge you to give me something with better statistics. I just realised that no matter what I will come up with you have decided that it is not going to satisfied you. Funny that you found the one I did not do live. There were also time delays due to e-mail servers as I let the people know by e-mail and someone puts it on the thread and chatroom for me which means I could fake those as well.

So forget about those trades and the system as it does not fit your style and temperament as patience is of absolute essence of which I can see you are lacking a lot.

But thanks for letting me do some introspecting to see if my motives are really true and if I am leading people into the darkness. Their testimonies have settled it for me.

Phillip
  • #8,072
  • Nov 5, 2007 11:54am Nov 5, 2007 11:54am
  •  shauny
  • | Joined Jul 2007 | Status: Still learning and never gonna stop | 127 Posts
philip has a nice talk about "knowing the system". Trading is really the way of life.. The married couple really illustrates the entire concept of this system. Know where and when to engaged, how to tackle the situation, what solutions do you have and things like that.. When the market is grumpy, stay away or get fired in the face!! When the market likes you, go ahead and give it a pack on the cheek.. I personally feel that, trading this system does makes you learn to be a better person. A person who understands the emotions of the market, how to negotiate the market. Its just like living a life with family, relatives and friends.. You need to do different things to make them happy, sometimes a cup of hot coffee, a massage on the back.. It is endless but all I can say it is the way of life.. And I think we need to be sensitive enough to sense the surroundings/emotions/dangers around us, to be a sucessful in trading. Till then, we can truly say we know the system..

Great stuffs from philip as usual. It makes me feel like marry to EU and GU!!!
  • #8,073
  • Nov 5, 2007 11:54am Nov 5, 2007 11:54am
Quoting ziko123
where is the links for the posts of these trades so we can look at their time to see if they were live or not, for example I tried to find any post by you related to the trade on 10/31 but didn't find any,
don't tell me chatroom trades
Thanks

There were on the Skype chat, I was there and I did see them. Ziko why so bitter? If you think he's full of crap and it does not work take off man. No one making you stay here.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #8,074
  • Nov 5, 2007 11:56am Nov 5, 2007 11:56am
Quoting ziko123
where is the links for the posts of these trades so we can look at their time to see if they were live or not, for example I tried to find any post by you related to the trade on 10/31 but didn't find any,
don't tell me chatroom trades
Thanks
Hi ziko123, I do not think this is the right way to "test a system".

As shreem said before me :

Quoting shreem
Hello ziko123, just one advise. If you feel that this system is not well suited for you, please feel free to leave it and find one who is best for you.....
So the point is:

A - Are you going to test 4H MACD system?

or

B - Are you going to test Phillip reliability?

Your last question seems to belong to "B"-kind of stuff and I think Phillip reliability is not on debate at all.

I think Phillip, Palmer and all the people here wants only to help others to understand a system, not to start a signal service.
It's your duty to understand and test this system, not to put anyone on the culprit side.
So... please do not keep posting "B" specimen.

Thank you.
  • #8,075
  • Nov 5, 2007 12:19pm Nov 5, 2007 12:19pm
Funny...I was pulling the posts too..they are spread under Phillip, Phillip's Opinion and Panther Trader...Than I thought "What the $#%^!" Why are we having a pissing contest w/someone who is trying to disturb our inner harmony by making us angry? Too bad whatever his/her name is is too lazy to test for themselves and see how well they can trade (but look how many more viewers we've gotten since conflict began -- odd, eh?).

This thread has always been a supportive environment w/the purpose of making each of us the very best trader we can be. It encourages habits of the most sucessful traders...Analyzing the market w/a set of criteria that gives you a market perspective where you are able to form logical assumptions and make solid business decisions; Testing your method of entry and exit; Paying attention to basic technical signals based on your individual preference; good risk management; Planning and execution of your plan.

These are all critical to development as a trader.

Phillip gives his time FREELY! He does it to help others -- not for any selfish motive -- From what I have learned about him over the last 9 months is he is a believer in positivity and in turn believes in helping others (think about paying it forward). It is expected that small minds will try to attack people who give freely. We must just ignore their negativity and see it for what it is -- a means for more people to join their club -- and that, unfortunately, is filled with people who will never succeed in life -- they have never experienced goal attainment and they wish to have others with the same experience surround them. They try to tear down people who strive for excellence because it makes these unfortunate souls feel OK about themselves and their lack of achievement -- these are the 95% crowd! Don't listen to them -- don't let their energy infect you!

Trading well is a mindset and a method. It is important for us to have positive support b/c all traders need reminders to keep trading well and exert discipline in their trades. Ohhhh.... I have such a rant......

And we all wonder why the wise traders stop posting on threads and why newbies dominate....and we just think that "good" traders are selfish or stay quiet b/c they fear others will learn to trade. That is BS...they stop sharing because they get tired of being attacked personally for giving invaluable info that one can learn to apply to themselves if they work hard at it!

Sorry.....I'm really angry!
  • #8,076
  • Nov 5, 2007 12:22pm Nov 5, 2007 12:22pm
[quote=Phillip Nel;1699760]I was about to compile this for you then I realised the tone in your writings. After 536pages, 8000 posts and a rating of 145votes with a rating of 4,9 out of 5.0 I challenge you to give me something with better statistics. I just realised that no matter what I will come up with you have decided that it is not going to satisfied you. Funny that you found the one I did not do live. There were also time delays due to e-mail servers as I let the people know by e-mail and someone puts it on the thread and chatroom for me which means I could fake those as well.

So forget about those trades and the system as it does not fit your style and temperament as patience is of absolute essence of which I can see you are lacking a lot.

But thanks for letting me do some introspecting to see if my motives are really true and if I am leading people into the darkness. Their testimonies have settled it for me.

Phillip[/quote


Hello Dear Phillip. Please dont let the posts of Ziko123 let make you sad. His attitude is really not worth it and it really shows that he do not care about this great system.

As you really know,we are all extremely grateful to you for your time consuming energy and all the efforts that you put through to help us become better traders.

I think the best thing to do about this situation is to just ignore any of his posts if they continue with the same tone.

Great trading to you all.

P.S. Ziko123, I really hope for you that you can shift your attitude and see what the great opportunity this method can bring you if you put the time and effort to learn it.

Sincerely

Shreem
  • #8,077
  • Nov 5, 2007 12:26pm Nov 5, 2007 12:26pm
Quoting pips4uandme
Funny...I was pulling the posts too..they are spread under Phillip, Phillip's Opinion and Panther Trader...Than I thought "What the $#%^!" Why are we having a pissing contest w/someone who is trying to disturb our inner harmony by making us angry? Too bad whatever his/her name is is too lazy to test for themselves and see how well they can trade (but look how many more viewers we've gotten since conflict began -- odd, eh?).

This thread has always been a supportive environment w/the purpose of making each of us the very best trader we can be. It encourages habits of the most sucessful traders...Analyzing the market w/a set of criteria that gives you a market perspective where you are able to form logical assumptions and make solid business decisions; Testing your method of entry and exit; Paying attention to basic technical signals based on your individual preference; good risk management; Planning and execution of your plan.

These are all critical to development as a trader.

Phillip gives his time FREELY! He does it to help others -- not for any selfish motive -- From what I have learned about him over the last 9 months is he is a believer in positivity and in turn believes in helping others (think about paying it forward). It is expected that small minds will try to attack people who give freely. We must just ignore their negativity and see it for what it is -- a means for more people to join their club -- and that, unfortunately, is filled with people who will never succeed in life -- they have never experienced goal attainment and they wish to have others with the same experience surround them. They try to tear down people who strive for excellence because it makes these unfortunate souls feel OK about themselves and their lack of achievement -- these are the 95% crowd! Don't listen to them -- don't let their energy infect you!

Trading well is a mindset and a method. It is important for us to have positive support b/c all traders need reminders to keep trading well and exert discipline in their trades. Ohhhh.... I have such a rant......

And we all wonder why the wise traders stop posting on threads and why newbies dominate....and we just think that "good" traders are selfish or stay quiet b/c they fear others will learn to trade. That is BS...they stop sharing because they get tired of being attacked personally for giving invaluable info that one can learn to apply to themselves if they work hard at it!

Sorry.....I'm really angry!
After he spends / looses 10's of thousands maybe he will start being nice, maybe he just blew out his account again it's not our problems. Just ignore this guy, I make money using this so do you. If he wants to be spoon fed screw him. Stuff like this makes me want to post trades less just to have it challanged.
Keep taking CT trades, I need more money
  • #8,078
  • Nov 5, 2007 12:27pm Nov 5, 2007 12:27pm
  •  shauny
  • | Joined Jul 2007 | Status: Still learning and never gonna stop | 127 Posts
I have something to add about why I said trading is the way of life.. I have a friend, he does not have a good character IMO. Why? He wants to make loads of money within the shortest time. Spent all his time developing his system, improvising on it, reading the forums day and night. Everyday he make some improvements, he tested it and say "woah this system is fantastic, I'm gonna make loads of money using this". He make it a point to find a trade everyday through all the majors and trade if a signals fullfilled in anyone of them. When he is wrong, he kept trying to tweak the settings, finding out what actually goes wrong, why he lost this trade. Till now, he is still tweaking and non stop tweaking. Sometimes I asked him, when are you going to stop tweaking? He said I will tweak till its perfect. I shook my head in my heart. He has a $3000 demo account and he is trading 3 to 5 lots each time. I asked him do you realized you are trading way over your trading capacity? He said as long my signals are accurate, i will go in with 5 lots and make the money for my day. Yes, sometimes he can make 2000++ a day and double within days. But his account can collapsed back to 3000++ which I think its a drastic drop. When he losses, he set a entire new account and try again. His mentality is he is going to nail the market everytime he goes in. He has the mentality that the market will go his way once he entered.

What I'm trying to say? If someone has flaws in his character, be it patience, mentality, integrity, mindset, greed and etc. He is not going to make it.

Look at above. He tried to tweak the signal when it fails him, we all know signals are never gonna be perfect, but its how we filter and take the highest probablity trade, so when is he gonna finished tweaking? He goes around hunting for trades, as philip put it, random will take him out. He trades way over leverage, he's not going to make it when the market is grumpy. His account will be wiped out when the storms arrives, that's why we practise money management to tide us over the storm and preserve what we made during the good times. We all know when the market is grumpy, no matter how good your system, you are going down means you are going down. There is no room for you to run if the market turn against you. You can't command the market to follow you, you will be always a pawn in the eyes of the market. If you don't respect it, trust me, it won't give you a single cent even your system is the best in the world and it will crush you till your heart and confidence shattered.

As we advanced in trading, we will learn more of ourselves and we will married ourselves to a few pairs that we are well-versed in. The time will come but if you act like the guy above. Believe me, you can try for another 10 years but you still don't make it. Why? Because you don't understand the way of life and trading.

I'm still learning and cultivating myself in this route and I believed I will reached one day as long as I don't go too off track.. let's all learn and forward!!!

Sorry for the long post..
  • #8,079
  • Nov 5, 2007 12:36pm Nov 5, 2007 12:36pm
[quote=shreem;1699794]
Quoting Phillip Nel
I was about to compile this for you then I realised the tone in your writings. After 536pages, 8000 posts and a rating of 145votes with a rating of 4,9 out of 5.0 I challenge you to give me something with better statistics. I just realised that no matter what I will come up with you have decided that it is not going to satisfied you. Funny that you found the one I did not do live. There were also time delays due to e-mail servers as I let the people know by e-mail and someone puts it on the thread and chatroom for me which means I could fake those as well.
Quoting Phillip Nel

So forget about those trades and the system as it does not fit your style and temperament as patience is of absolute essence of which I can see you are lacking a lot.

But thanks for letting me do some introspecting to see if my motives are really true and if I am leading people into the darkness. Their testimonies have settled it for me.

Phillip[/quote


Hello Dear Phillip. Please dont let the posts of Ziko123 let make you sad. His attitude is really not worth it and it really shows that he do not care about this great system.

As you really know,we are all extremely grateful to you for your time consuming energy and all the efforts that you put through to help us become better traders.

I think the best thing to do about this situation is to just ignore any of his posts if they continue with the same tone.

Great trading to you all.

P.S. Ziko123, I really hope for you that you can shift your attitude and see what the great opportunity this method can bring you if you put the time and effort to learn it.

Sincerely

Shreem

Thanks for the post. Things like this is nescessary to just make you look into yourself if you are still on track. I have said what I had to say and look at myself and my motives and the testemonies of the people and I am satisfied about the whole issue. As far as I am concern the matter is settled and I will continue to give what I have learned to those still young in trading to help them become better traders.

Thanks for all the support I get from you people out there.
Phillip
  • #8,080
  • Nov 5, 2007 12:37pm Nov 5, 2007 12:37pm
I hope I didn't offend anyone, or I just asked for is that any claims of monthly profits be supported by live calls here for just one month, at the end of that month we will see if these claims are right or wrong based on facts and not trust, but no one will dare to do this, this is a 4H system so we are talking about 8-10 trades a month, let one of those who claims this system makes 300+ /month post these 8-10 trades live, just one, but again I'll get the same replies that they don't have to proof anything to others, don't have to spoon feed and ......, but why make claims from the begining if you can't proof it
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