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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #1,321
  • Nov 2, 2007 10:50am Nov 2, 2007 10:50am
Quoting charlinks
I have been experimenting with MBT Navigator with my Live account.
Reeealy now. So they are closing your positions at midnight you claim? Well that's a new one. I'll leave you to Justin.

(and no I don't work for EFX, I work for MEEEE! )
  • #1,322
  • Nov 2, 2007 11:15am Nov 2, 2007 11:15am
Quoting Pip Hunter E
Reeealy now. So they are closing your positions at midnight you claim? Well that's a new one. I'll leave you to Justin.

(and no I don't work for EFX, I work for MEEEE! )
My post just has few suggestions and overall experience as a person coming from a "bucket shop". This is not to say I don't like the MBT. I like the platform. In fact the more I use it the more I like it. I think it has few quirks left to work out (what product doesn't) but it has a great great potential to wipe out the competition.

Sorry if I was not clear in my post. At midnight they shutdown the order server similar to the one during rollover. However they don't close your positions, I don't think. It's just that the liquidity can get a little hectic around those times. It's better to be aware of that when you run your strategy. E.g. buy and hold strategy ala Jacko with 50 pips trailing stop may get killed if you don't sit and watch the market while having an open order...
  • #1,323
  • Nov 2, 2007 11:40am Nov 2, 2007 11:40am
I was also concerned about what happens during maintenance time, so I asked in detail before opening an account. My scenario was not so much about an automated rule. I was asking: what if I wanted to exit a position during maintenance time? I was told I can call the order desk, and that if they can connect the order with a liquidity provided they would do so. So in reality it would be a best effort type of thing, but at least they were honest about that.

As I understand, any sort of automated rule (a standing limit order for example) has zero chance of executing during maint time since the servers are down, and the standing (live) orders live on the servers.

As for the platform, I use it for entering or exiting positions only. And for the L2 also I guess. Everything else I do with 3rd party software. Perhaps this will change when the Remote Trader product is in full swing.
  • #1,324
  • Edited 1:21pm Nov 2, 2007 1:08pm | Edited 1:21pm
Quoting charlinks
At midnight they shutdown the order server similar to the one during rollover. However they don't close your positions, I don't think.
I am trading on a live account and am normally in a position during the midnight maintenance, and I can verify that your Positions are not closed (but you wouldn't want them to be) and your Open Orders are "suspended" at that time, so nothing is triggered whilst in maintenance mode.

Yes, the quotes go crazy (but I always assumed it was due to the maintenance and not necessarily that the quotes were reflecting actual trades - I'll have to double-check that next time with my charts), but they will not trigger your SL or TTO, etc. during the maintenance.

Once the maintenance is over and your Open Orders go back to "Accepted" then they become active again.

Under the Open Order window, if you have "Event" as a column, you can see the "Suspended" or "Accepted" status to inform you when this happens.

As Pip_Hunter mentioned, you would have to call the order desk if you want a position closed during maintenance (I have never had to do this yet, though).
  • #1,325
  • Nov 2, 2007 1:30pm Nov 2, 2007 1:30pm
Quoting leighsww
I am trading on a live account and am normally in a position during the midnight maintenance, and I can verify that your Positions are not closed (but you wouldn't want them to be) and your Open Orders are "suspended" at that time, so nothing is triggered whilst in maintenance mode.

Yes, the quotes go crazy (but I always assumed it was due to the maintenance and not necessarily that the quotes were reflecting actual trades - I'll have to double-check that next time with my charts), but they will not trigger your SL or TTO, etc. during the maintenance.

Once the maintenance is over and your Open Orders go back to "Accepted" then they become active again.

Under the Open Order window, if you have "Event" as a column, you can see the "Suspended" or "Accepted" status to inform you when this happens.

As Pip_Hunter mentioned, you would have to call the order desk if you want a position closed during maintenance (I have never had to do this yet, though).


Thank you for clarifying that!!!! That makes me feel better
  • #1,326
  • Nov 2, 2007 2:12pm Nov 2, 2007 2:12pm
Quoting cryten
Great news! GBP accounts are more important really. thanks!
I agree 100%. The day EFX gets GBP accounts I'm funding a live account with them. Justin, please make sure the powers that be understand the strength of feeling on this issue and move things forward ASAP. Who in their right mind would want to convert their GBP or EUR trading capital into USD right now?
  • #1,327
  • Nov 2, 2007 2:34pm Nov 2, 2007 2:34pm
Quoting notouch
Who in their right mind would want to convert their GBP or EUR trading capital into USD right now?
Even the CAD is worth more than the USD right now, and it hasn't been that way in years.

I went with a U.S. broker for the "extra" in the exchange and now look!

I can definitely understand the concern over multiple currency accounts.

Terry
  • #1,328
  • Edited Nov 3, 2007 10:25am Nov 2, 2007 5:56pm | Edited Nov 3, 2007 10:25am
hello


I just wanted to add a litlle clarifications to avoid some problem

While the maintenance you cannot contact EFX or MBT to close your orders or to change anything in orders or simply to open new one. no one can touch the orders.

Please read post #775

Have a Good week-end
  • #1,329
  • Nov 4, 2007 12:22pm Nov 4, 2007 12:22pm
Hi,

I just would like to know if you have to pay the commissions once or twice (open & close) per trade?

Thanks
janson
  • #1,330
  • Nov 4, 2007 12:40pm Nov 4, 2007 12:40pm
Quoting janson
Hi,

I just would like to know if you have to pay the commissions once or twice (open & close) per trade?

Thanks
janson
You pay the commission twice (when you open the position and then again when you close).
  • #1,331
  • Edited 2:25pm Nov 4, 2007 1:25pm | Edited 2:25pm
Thank you.

Thus you have to add about 2 pips extra to the cable for commissions.
That is absolutely heavy. It seems that you need at least 50K$ for ECN trading.

I will trade further with retailers like ABN as long as I am not able to open an account at ECN's with reasonable fees.
  • #1,332
  • Nov 4, 2007 4:02pm Nov 4, 2007 4:02pm
Sydney's open (9am AEST) and EFX demo is not up? Anyone on the live platform confirm they're able to make a trade?
  • #1,333
  • Nov 5, 2007 12:52am Nov 5, 2007 12:52am
Há algum trader q fale portuguÊs aqui ?
  • #1,334
  • Nov 5, 2007 7:52am Nov 5, 2007 7:52am
Quoting janson
Thank you.

Thus you have to add about 2 pips extra to the cable for commissions.
That is absolutely heavy. It seems that you need at least 50K$ for ECN trading.

I will trade further with retailers like ABN as long as I am not able to open an account at ECN's with reasonable fees.
Janson,

I don't understand how commissions and account size have any correlation with each other, could you please explain this?

Even if the GBP/USD has a 1 pip spread and you pay a commission...how is this different from paying 3-5 pip spread with any other broker and being down $30-50 right when you enter a trade?

So how is trading with an ECN brokerage any different or is it just psychology since you have to see the money debited from your account, instead of being down in the trade.
  • #1,335
  • Nov 5, 2007 8:28am Nov 5, 2007 8:28am
Quoting jleblang
Janson,

I don't understand how commissions and account size have any correlation with each other, could you please explain this?

Hi,

all ECN-brokers I know with reasonable fees demand a minimum account size of 50K (except IAB). A fair commission starts about 20$/per one mio volume. That’s what I meant...

Why should anyone trade cable with more than 3 pips spread. Just to say he is trading ECN? For someone who trades intraday more than 3 pips spread is too much. So I prefer retailer with constant 3 pip and would not change to ECN before I am not able to come up with a 50K account.
  • #1,336
  • Nov 5, 2007 8:28am Nov 5, 2007 8:28am
Quoting jleblang
Janson,

I don't understand how commissions and account size have any correlation with each other, could you please explain this?

Even if the GBP/USD has a 1 pip spread and you pay a commission...how is this different from paying 3-5 pip spread with any other broker and being down $30-50 right when you enter a trade?

So how is trading with an ECN brokerage any different or is it just psychology since you have to see the money debited from your account, instead of being down in the trade.
I think it was obvious that Janson was questioning the competitiveness of your commission-structure in relation to other ECNs. I guess direct competitors to EFX would be Hotspot ($30/mio) and Interactive Brokers (even less). Given enough accountsize/tradeing-volume there are ECNs who do it for <$10.

My personal opinion is, of course small time traders never get good commissions, be it stocks, futures or FX, but $50 is certainly pushing it a bit.
  • #1,337
  • Edited 1:19pm Nov 5, 2007 10:17am | Edited 1:19pm
janson –

Actually, I don’t think most traders would view it as more expensive. Let’s take a GBPUSD fixed spread (assume they don’t slip you) execution on a deal desk. You buy the GBPUSD. You waste 4 pips in the spread because you can’t cut it down the middle on a deal desk. Later, you go to sell the trade, and you also waste 4 pips since you have to hit the bid. You’ve lost up to 8 pips on a 4-pip spread, and many platforms still have 5 pip spreads on the GBPUSD. And that assumes that their pricing is right in range of the real market, which is not always an assumption that you can make since they don’t have to show a quote based on the interbank market.

Now, with us, you pay a net 2.08 (sorry - misprint) pips in commissions, as you pointed out, on the GBPUSD. Many people use market orders to get into a trade but have a limit to get out, which means you could say that they pay our 1 pip spread, which we average on the GBPUSD, to get in, and nothing coming out because they get taken out on the ask. That’s still a lot cheaper than a deal desk, plus you don’t have to worry about stop hunting and random slippage just because we want to take money out of your account.

And of course, the GBPUSD is the worst of all of the pairs because of the exchange rate. The math changes a lot on EURUSD or AUDUSD, etc. So it isn’t about “paying a lot of commission just to say I’m trading ECN.” I think it is hard to view it as costing more in real money, but most traders also understand that you have to factor in the costs of having a deal desk have so much control over their fate when you trade on non-ECN platforms.

Change: commission changed above to -
  • #1,338
  • Nov 5, 2007 11:11am Nov 5, 2007 11:11am
Actually, its 2,08 pips per round-turn, and not 4 for Gbp/Usd, with $5/$100k. Dont make it worse than it actually is
  • #1,339
  • Nov 5, 2007 12:47pm Nov 5, 2007 12:47pm
Quoting janson
Hi,

all ECN-brokers I know with reasonable fees demand a minimum account size of 50K (except IAB). A fair commission starts about 20$/per one mio volume. That’s what I meant...

Why should anyone trade cable with more than 3 pips spread. Just to say he is trading ECN? For someone who trades intraday more than 3 pips spread is too much. So I prefer retailer with constant 3 pip and would not change to ECN before I am not able to come up with a 50K account.
I became a fan of trading GBP on a demo and what got my attention, was the "you must put in a stop loss at least 10 pips away from your entry price" error message that I got from one of the deal desk brokers. When I first trade the demo with efxgroup, I could put the stop anywhere I wanted to, even a pip away, I got stopped out of course.

Then I started to trade live with MBtrading/efxgroup on their beta with the minimal account size, one of my commision charges was $.09, I decided to stay away from cable cause I knew that it was twice as much margin, whether I stick with the AUD or GBP for trading, I often see the GBP and AUD trading at 1-3 pips on AUD/JPY, GBP/JPY and GBP/CHF. So I pick the time of day with what I want to trade, if I'm crazy and want to trade European stuff at 3am-5am, then I often see the 1-2 pip spread.
I could pay for my own charting at $100 a month and get my favorite news source at marketnewsinternational for $235 and still think that I was coming ahead because I could place my stops where I want, I could choose a trailing or TTO stop, thats a take profit and stop loss entered for those of you who need the simple platforms. So when I know I will trade lots big enough to cover my costs, those choices are available to me. To top it off, when I'm capitalized enough, I'll trade futures and options off their same platform, until then I'll stick with fx trading at efx/mbtrading at the crazy hours until I can quit my day job.
  • #1,340
  • Nov 5, 2007 1:14pm Nov 5, 2007 1:14pm
Quoting Justin
Now, with us, you pay a net 4 pips in commissions, as you pointed out, on the GBPUSD.
LOL, shrike is right. Here's the math (based on current GBP/USD price of $2.0800):

($100,000 * $2.0800) * $0.00005
($208,000) * $0.00005
$10.40 per trade x 2 = $20.80 RT = 2.08 pips

Just to clarify, so that it doesn't discourage others even moreso thinking that it's 4 pips when it's actually 2

For commission calculations, here's the info on that --> http://efxgroup.com/commissions.php
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