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Are you willing to share your poor/ bad/ loser/ lousy system? 43 replies

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A Loser System Wanted

  • #61
  • Nov 28, 2006 12:22am Nov 28, 2006 12:22am
Quoting OrangeRoshan
LOL...


There is no such thing as a losing system. A trade is only 2 types, win and loss! What made a trade sour is not the system but Trader's attitude!! A good signal can turned into a bad one when a trader didnt use proper MM and RM.

In trading, its not whether you are following a trend or not, but a big combination of SL and take profits. A signal can be correct, but a wrong SL will turn a good trade into a bad one is a good example. Greed or revenge is another thing.

So, there is no losing system only a losing Trader!! Go find a hopeless person in trading and do the opposite, Thats more like it!!

May the Pips be with you!!
Yes by all means losses are a direct result of a bad attitude. So think happy thoughts, and soon you'll be pippin like a pro regardless of what method you use. Piece of cake.
  • #62
  • Nov 28, 2006 12:30am Nov 28, 2006 12:30am
Quoting rdrainey
Wouldn't the price only have to move 7 pips to hit the stop loss in the first example? When you open the position, you would already be -3, so to hit -10 only requires a move of 7 pips, right? So, with a 20-pip TP and a 10-pip SL, the price would have to move 23 for profit and 7 for loss.
Details, details. Just think happy thoughts and none of this mundane TP/SL, profit factor or system mumbo jumbo will matter. Go to your happy place now and profits will be sure to follow. After all your system has nothing to do with your success as a trader, the answer is in you.
  • #63
  • Nov 28, 2006 7:38am Nov 28, 2006 7:38am
Quoting rdrainey
Wouldn't the price only have to move 7 pips to hit the stop loss in the first example? When you open the position, you would already be -3, so to hit -10 only requires a move of 7 pips, right? So, with a 20-pip TP and a 10-pip SL, the price would have to move 23 for profit and 7 for loss.
Sorry you are right. It was a miscalculation.
  • #64
  • Nov 28, 2006 7:36pm Nov 28, 2006 7:36pm
I will just place my BUY for GBP right now, and you will get a quick 500 pip drop !!!
  • #65
  • Nov 28, 2006 8:09pm Nov 28, 2006 8:09pm
Quoting Tiki Trader
I will just place my BUY for GBP right now, and you will get a quick 500 pip drop !!!
  • #66
  • Dec 4, 2006 4:12am Dec 4, 2006 4:12am
Hello I may have found the loser system you are looking for i hope you could turn it around. It wins sometime but the graph is a beutiful downward slope.
Attached is the LOSER EA.

ENJOY!!

Mikhail
Attached Image
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 PerfectLOSER!Almost.mq4   11 KB | 427 downloads
  • #67
  • Dec 4, 2006 12:04pm Dec 4, 2006 12:04pm
Hello Me Again,

I was playing around with the loser system I just posted and was trying to find out how to make it more of a loser. then i discovered that what makes it lose so much is bacause of the trailing stop, without it its not much of a loser (but not a winner either).

I think this is the solution to make it a winner! if you could reverse the trailing stop that could make this thing a winner! what i mean is as the price moves closer to the SL the TP get modified and go closer also. like trailingstop but reverse!

Can you do that Alpari?

Anyways ENJOY,

Kind Regards and a firm handshake,
Mikhail
  • #68
  • Dec 4, 2006 12:21pm Dec 4, 2006 12:21pm
Thanks very much Mikhail,

I'll look int it as soon as I get the chance. If I manage to enhance it, I'll let you khow.

Thanks again and Good Luck,
Al


Quoting mikhaildgreat
Hello Me Again,

I was playing around with the loser system I just posted and was trying to find out how to make it more of a loser. then i discovered that what makes it lose so much is bacause of the trailing stop, without it its not much of a loser (but not a winner either).

I think this is the solution to make it a winner! if you could reverse the trailing stop that could make this thing a winner! what i mean is as the price moves closer to the SL the TP get modified and go closer also. like trailingstop but reverse!

Can you do that Alpari?

Anyways ENJOY,

Kind Regards and a firm handshake,
Mikhail
  • #69
  • Dec 7, 2006 7:55pm Dec 7, 2006 7:55pm
Hey i was looking at the metatrader contest and one of the top systems currently uses a TP=6 and SL=big like 100ish (can't remember) off hand. seems the signal (don't know what it is) is good for at least 6 pips nearly all the time.. sure is a big hit and a lot of wins down the drain when a SL is hit but this is one of the top systems in the contest.. very interesting and is about opposite of what most of us "looosers" are doing! (find a great entry that limits your SL and let it ride baby)

Seriously looking into the concept a little closer..

Cheers..
  • #70
  • Dec 7, 2006 9:53pm Dec 7, 2006 9:53pm
Quoting mrSmoothy
Hey i was looking at the metatrader contest and one of the top systems currently uses a TP=6 and SL=big like 100ish (can't remember) off hand. seems the signal (don't know what it is) is good for at least 6 pips nearly all the time.. sure is a big hit and a lot of wins down the drain when a SL is hit but this is one of the top systems in the contest.. very interesting and is about opposite of what most of us "looosers" are doing! (find a great entry that limits your SL and let it ride baby)

Seriously looking into the concept a little closer..

Cheers..
Hey mrSmoothy,

Thanks for the post. Let me explain the reason in more details. If you want to win in the forex market other than a good approach to analyze the market (TA, FA, or whatever) you need to consider many other facts including but not limited to the following:

- Win Rate: The number of winning trades to the total number of trades
- Pay Rate: The average win to the average loss

Many of forex traders focus on Pay Rate they try to have a greater TP comparing to SL to make sure that every winner trade makes more money than every loser trade. While it looks good the problem is that with this approach you in many cases increase the probability of losing (a simple reason is that the market needs to move a greater distance to reach TP, so it's easier for the market to hit your SL).

So it's very important to make sure that you have a balanced relationship between win rate and pay rate. For the system that you mentioned it obviously needs to have a very high win rate because every time it loses, it loses big.

Good Luck,
Al
  • #71
  • Dec 12, 2006 11:05am Dec 12, 2006 11:05am
  •  aghast
  • | Joined Jun 2006 | Status: Fixed Income & Currencies Trader | 58 Posts
Quoting aparsai
And why is that?
Well, you can't just reverse the rules and start winning. If the system is bad and looses, reversing will not help at all. You can try it. Let me give you an example:

H1 chart.
Entry:
SELL if RSI > 75
BUY if RSI < 25
Stop loss = 25 pips. When you get into a trend you get stopped out. Reverse rules and you get stopped out again. Conclusion: simple reversing doesn't work.
Fortune always favors the brave.
  • #72
  • Dec 12, 2006 7:55pm Dec 12, 2006 7:55pm
You're on to something. If most of your trades are losers then go just the opposite...can't lose the way I see it.
I'm only a bird in a gilded cage
  • #73
  • Dec 20, 2006 10:53pm Dec 20, 2006 10:53pm
hi,

interesting thought.. i've often wondered that (create a system to do the opposite)

has anyone designed or thought what would happen if you designed to totally random EA.. ie, randomly choose short & long positions...
  • #74
  • Dec 20, 2006 11:41pm Dec 20, 2006 11:41pm
Quoting anthonyrae
hi,

interesting thought.. i've often wondered that (create a system to do the opposite)

has anyone designed or thought what would happen if you designed to totally random EA.. ie, randomly choose short & long positions...
I did that once and it's an absolute loser. Unfortunately I deleted the EA by mistake.
  • #75
  • Dec 21, 2006 12:22am Dec 21, 2006 12:22am
Just FYI...

The market moves in 3 directions:

1) Up
2) Down
3) Sideways (chop chop)

If I'm picking the ups and downs at the wrong time 90% of the time, it is probably because the market is in chop when I think it is up or down. So doing the opposite probably will still result in 90% loss..

I had a few systems that were 90% losers, I did the opposite, and still had 90% losers..
google:
  • #76
  • Dec 21, 2006 2:38am Dec 21, 2006 2:38am
Hi,

are there any systems for sideways trending periods ? obviously volitility is what brings in the pips, but what do people do when the currencies are relatively flat ?
  • #77
  • Dec 21, 2006 9:54am Dec 21, 2006 9:54am
Quoting twoblink
Just FYI...

The market moves in 3 directions:

1) Up
2) Down
3) Sideways (chop chop)

If I'm picking the ups and downs at the wrong time 90% of the time, it is probably because the market is in chop when I think it is up or down. So doing the opposite probably will still result in 90% loss..

I had a few systems that were 90% losers, I did the opposite, and still had 90% losers..
I agree with you to some extent. There are some exceptions though. For example a sideways market for GBPUSD on daily time frame usually consists of 100+ pips movement. So if you set your profit targets less than that value you still have the chance to make money if you reverse the direction of your trades.
  • #78
  • Dec 21, 2006 9:57am Dec 21, 2006 9:57am
Quoting anthonyrae
Hi,

are there any systems for sideways trending periods ? obviously volitility is what brings in the pips, but what do people do when the currencies are relatively flat ?
If a market is in the sideways mode it is not trending anymore. The market is either in trending mode (up or down) or ranging mode (i.e. sideways)

If you somehow recognize the ranging mode there are many indicators that can help you profit from the situation including but not limited to RSI and Stochastic. Even a properly designed breakout system may also be able to make money in such situations.

The question is how can you designate between trending and ranging markets.
  • #79
  • Dec 21, 2006 8:39pm Dec 21, 2006 8:39pm
90% lose rate does not mean a system is not profitable. Most trendfollowers deal with very high losing percentages but a low percent of capital loss, while thier winners are many multiples of thier risk.

likewise, high win percentage systems tend to create a sense of euphoric arrogance that make people susceptable to over leveraging it until a blackswan event takes them out.


What do MA users do in choppy markets, if they are any good, they get stopped out a lot and endure the draw down until they move into a trendy period. They also trade multiple markets so that portfolio drawdown is not as severe as any one instrument's.


Your time would be more profitably spent, taking a system that has a winning percentage that is acceptable to your psychology and playing with it's money management/risk management, in my humble opinion.
  • #80
  • Dec 22, 2006 6:07am Dec 22, 2006 6:07am
Hello,

As a beginner in FX from what I have gathered on these threads money/risk management is more important than a 'winning' system. Wise decisions on how much to risk when trading will hopefully ensure your account/acpital is protected from unprofitable trades but allows you to maximise the winning trades.

I still have mush to learn about this (money management) so if there are any good sites, threads or tips, please share them with me.. it would be much appreciated !!

Thanks & merry christmas
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