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Transition from Losing to Winning

  • #41
  • Jul 30, 2007 8:14am Jul 30, 2007 8:14am
I don't have the time to trade intraday (or the hourly charts that I'm most interested in), so I started to trade dailys. Works for me.
  • #42
  • Jul 31, 2007 4:59am Jul 31, 2007 4:59am
Hi Daniel
Could you give a brief synopsis of your trading plan inc. time frames & any indicators. i am new to all this. I fully understand if you wish to keep the above to yourself & also providing blueruby doesn't mind me hijacking his thread, albeit only briefly.

Many regards

Kevin
  • #43
  • Jul 31, 2007 6:01am Jul 31, 2007 6:01am
Kevin, I never keep my methods to myself, because all of my knolwedge came from other traders willing to help me. I won't start a new thread on it tho, and neither I'm happy to hijack someone else's for it, but please do have a visit to my blog, find the address in my profile here. I explain there how I trade, and hopefully will show a positive balance one day.
  • #44
  • Jul 31, 2007 4:57pm Jul 31, 2007 4:57pm
The rate of loss is slowing., but there hasn't been a lot of improvement for months. Had I broke even in July, this would be a nice graph. But, I don't like or dislike it, I just need to listen to what it's telling me.
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  • #45
  • Jul 31, 2007 5:13pm Jul 31, 2007 5:13pm
I have been there and done that for all you have said in your thread... and I too am basically still at the same place you are !!!

Are you a Rob Booker student ??? I was / am

I don't think money management is your problem... no matter how well you mange your money... if you get lots of losing trades... you are going to be a loser...

If you have time, PM me... lets' talk !!!

Tiki trader
  • #46
  • Aug 2, 2007 10:40am Aug 2, 2007 10:40am
Yup. Money management just prolongs the agony!

But, it's better than blowing out the account quickly.

And, a real trader should never have agony in the first place.

It's just the price of education. No pain, no gain.
  • #47
  • Aug 17, 2007 3:03pm Aug 17, 2007 3:03pm
Well, I did it again today.

Had two half-positions open on two pairs. At one point the combined profit was 100 pips. Could have banked 50 pips, it would have been a great trading day, and would have put me ahead for the week.

But, I'm trying to trade like Jacko. I've been reading that thread all week. I wanted each position to be a long-term hold, catch the big move. I trailed a 50 pip stop. One ended up stopped out at breakeven, the other down 33 pips.

Hmmm... I said earlier that the only time I've been consistently profitable was when I took my profits....

Still mixing timeframes, styles....

Time to go over the trading plan. Time to figure out what kind of trader I am.
  • #48
  • Sep 5, 2007 6:57am Sep 5, 2007 6:57am
I'm not actually getting better. August has been a very busy month outside of trading so I only traded 12 days and didn't trade the other 11.
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  • #49
  • Sep 5, 2007 10:24am Sep 5, 2007 10:24am
Hi Blueruby,
You sound down in the dumps about your trading results?

Trading is like looking in the mirror, you will see the good and bad things that you do with your trades and most probably notice that these same things come up in your daily life as well.

Now I don't know how you are trading but it sounds like you don't have confidence in your system or you don't have confidence in your ability to execute your system.

Most people who are new or are beginners in trading alway's believe that trading has to be difficult, so they try to complicate things as they think to be successful you have to be some sort of genius. Well thats not really the case, all you need is to be smart enough to come up with a system that works and be dumb enough to follow it without question.

So if on back testing your system is producing results consistantly then just follow it to the letter and if it's not then develope your system until it is.

There's nothing wrong with taking the time to develope your system until your at ease with it and then getting back into trading.

Another thing you might want to look at is to read a book called "The Magicians Way" now it's about how to get your mind in the right space to achieve results not only for trading but all aspects of life.

Hope this helps Go Getter
Go Getter When Trading Its All About "WHO YOU ARE BEING"
  • #50
  • Sep 5, 2007 10:35am Sep 5, 2007 10:35am
Quoting blueruby
I'm not actually getting better. August has been a very busy month outside of trading so I only traded 12 days and didn't trade the other 11.
Hiya,
is that still live money? If so, did you at least reduce risk per pip?
I hope you're not burning the reserve fuel

Quote
Still mixing timeframes, styles....

Time to go over the trading plan. Time to figure out what kind of trader I am.

Very important. Best way you will find profit is if you find yourself in your trading

Try to find something that you really feel is what you want to do(= fits you and your personality/style) and then stick to it, (try to) get good at it.

Jacko's way is both great and terrible in that it is a very simple and sound logic (with the trend, simple entries, trailing stop = exit strategy, losses mitigated by the AH), but it also leads to the dilemma (for me at least) of choosing the entry in the first place. Even though I know he says it's irrelevant as long as you keep applying the AH to it. It just doesn't fit ME well.

But if that's how you wanna go - go for it, just don't mix and match anymore, trade SOLELY one thing and one thing only until you know it inside out and to work for YOU.

Sorry I can't give any more helpful advice

Take care,

SeekingLight
Trust price. Know yourself.
  • #51
  • Sep 6, 2007 6:21am Sep 6, 2007 6:21am
Thanks, guys.

Yes, it's still real money. Not very much, but real. The chart above represents about $400 in losses over the months.

I will not give up, but I thought I'd be farther along at this point. I've sold my house and have been moving for the last couple weeks, once I get re-organized, I'll regroup. Physical work is good for the head.

I don't really have a system. I haven't seen anything that is consistent. With EVERY system I have reviewed, and there have been many, it turns out that the originator uses discretion. ALWAYS. A professional trader can use any system and make money. Another trader uses the exact same system and blows accounts. We know this is a common phenomenon.

That is my dilemma. There's no way around it, you have to learn to be a trader. I believe successful traders have integrated years of experience and practice into their reactions and decisions.

They have a system, but know what trades not to take, and know when to cheat, and take a trade that doesn't quite meet the rules of the system. They know when to hold on and when to jump out. They have a developed instinct.

Yes, Go Getter, I might be making it tougher than it is, I'm saying that I can't be profitable with the tools I now have. I just don't believe that mechanical trading works. Unless, once again, the person is experienced and smart enough to tweak the system as the market changes, but not so often as to destroy the effectiveness (same as jumping from system to system)...

This is my dilemma.
  • #52
  • Sep 6, 2007 6:29am Sep 6, 2007 6:29am
Well, actually, I do have a system.

I use trendlines and support/resistance, candlestick patterns, and a ton of other little things like "stay out at news time", "don't trade in the afternoon", etc. That's about it.

I think that's all I need, and in time, with practice, I'll develop as a trader and find my style.

"Looking in the mirror" means, to me, to establish rules that will keep my personality from getting in my way. Only by recognizing my negative aspects can I fully guard against their causing me to make the same mistakes over and over during times of stress.
  • #53
  • Sep 6, 2007 7:02am Sep 6, 2007 7:02am
  •  MPP
  • Joined Jun 2007 | Status: Be yourself, everyone else is taken | 2,734 Posts
HI Blueruby
Don't feel down i shedded 40% of my account trying new systems, like hedging and jacko's.

my view is this, jacko's system is great, but he has a large pot of money to play with so a few bad trades don't realy affect him like you and me.

his system is great and yet flawed. i tried it and found that simple trading the long trend cost me dearly, yes i can AH it but my funds kept going down.

Now take your prcatice, TL candlesticks and add that to jacko's and you get much better entry points. i havn't placed a trade for 2 weeks on the EU because my TL's tell me the bottom of this is around 1.3520ish, so i wait, then i will add a long every 100 pips up from there with the jacko system for SL and AH.

Patience MM and stick to you plan are key. and trhe best part of Jacko's system take abreak when you can't see the way.

best of luck and i hope you find your path.

regards

MPP
  • #54
  • Sep 7, 2007 7:03am Sep 7, 2007 7:03am
Thanks, MPP.

Lately I wonder how much Jacko has in his accounts. I could make assumptions and guesstimate. They are big accounts, and I wonder what his yearly return is.

Mainly I wonder because I get 20 - 30 % per year in mutual funds.

What I did learn from him is to trade with the trend. As you said, combine my system.

This break from trading has been good. My body is sore, bloody and bruised all over. A couple more days and the move will be over, but my body has already had all it can take. Press on.

But, as I write, I now feel like I know what to do. The thing I think fits me best is Rob Booker's "10 pips per day". I need to take my profits when I get them, even if small. Then end it for the day, and start anew tomorrow.
  • #55
  • Sep 8, 2007 4:18am Sep 8, 2007 4:18am
  •  MPP
  • Joined Jun 2007 | Status: Be yourself, everyone else is taken | 2,734 Posts
my biggest problem is taking profits, i could never decide were to get out, and quite often waited to long and lost.

Now i set a longer target (ie eur/usd 1.4000) and use trailing stops. lock in some profit. even if it's 10pips. and let it go. when it move so will my stop, i don't think about closing until my main target is reached. if i get stopped out i AH and away we go.

once in profit i forget about it until i get stopped out, in the mean time i start a new day with a new look at things and decide were my next trade will be, yesterdays is either closed or in profit, either way it's no risk to my account anymore.

may the pips be with you

MPP




Quoting blueruby
Thanks, MPP.

Lately I wonder how much Jacko has in his accounts. I could make assumptions and guesstimate. They are big accounts, and I wonder what his yearly return is.

Mainly I wonder because I get 20 - 30 % per year in mutual funds.

What I did learn from him is to trade with the trend. As you said, combine my system.

This break from trading has been good. My body is sore, bloody and bruised all over. A couple more days and the move will be over, but my body has already had all it can take. Press on.

But, as I write, I now feel like I know what to do. The thing I think fits me best is Rob Booker's "10 pips per day". I need to take my profits when I get them, even if small. Then end it for the day, and start anew tomorrow.
  • #56
  • Sep 8, 2007 4:42am Sep 8, 2007 4:42am
Quoting Go Getter
Hi Blueruby,
You sound down in the dumps about your trading results?

Trading is like looking in the mirror, you will see the good and bad things that you do with your trades and most probably notice that these same things come up in your daily life as well.

Now I don't know how you are trading but it sounds like you don't have confidence in your system or you don't have confidence in your ability to execute your system.

Most people who are new or are beginners in trading alway's believe that trading has to be difficult, so they try to complicate things as they think to be successful you have to be some sort of genius. Well thats not really the case, all you need is to be smart enough to come up with a system that works and be dumb enough to follow it without question.

So if on back testing your system is producing results consistantly then just follow it to the letter and if it's not then develope your system until it is.

There's nothing wrong with taking the time to develope your system until your at ease with it and then getting back into trading.

Another thing you might want to look at is to read a book called "The Magicians Way" now it's about how to get your mind in the right space to achieve results not only for trading but all aspects of life.

Hope this helps Go Getter
I agree with what you say here. Complicating things isn't going to necessarily make things any better. Simple systems do in fact work and make money. The reason why many people fail even with a good simple system is because they never stick with it or have the discipline. If you randomly give a winning system to 10 people, most will fail simply because they won't follow it all the way through. The easy part is following the system, the hard part is being strict and disciplined.
  • #57
  • Sep 8, 2007 5:31am Sep 8, 2007 5:31am
Hi PrivateFX,

It's good to be strict and Disciplined, but one of the major things that Traders do that are not successful is that they have not yet developed the ability to take themselves out of the equation, in other words don't take the trade personally as it is only a trade, not a statement about you or your personality.

This then allows the trader to trade from a space of clearing which means he/she can then bring everything and yet nothing into his/her trading enviroment. Knowledge and skill in, upsets and emotions out.

Then the Trader can then concentrate on the probabilities of the trade.

Hope this makes sense Go Getter
Go Getter When Trading Its All About "WHO YOU ARE BEING"
  • #58
  • Sep 9, 2007 4:31am Sep 9, 2007 4:31am
Quoting Go Getter
Hi PrivateFX,

It's good to be strict and Disciplined, but one of the major things that Traders do that are not successful is that they have not yet developed the ability to take themselves out of the equation, in other words don't take the trade personally as it is only a trade, not a statement about you or your personality.

This then allows the trader to trade from a space of clearing which means he/she can then bring everything and yet nothing into his/her trading enviroment. Knowledge and skill in, upsets and emotions out.

Then the Trader can then concentrate on the probabilities of the trade.

Hope this makes sense Go Getter
It makes sense Go Getter. One of the most difficult things is to throw the emotions out the window. To me, I look at trading losses as expenses. They don't phase me at all. My winning trades don't really get me all excited either. I know my system in and out and already have certain expectations of it. This allows me to trade in confidence and emotionless.
  • #59
  • Sep 9, 2007 8:40pm Sep 9, 2007 8:40pm
Hey PrivateFX,

Sounds like your getting it, it's funny the guy's that I teach at the start all try so hard to become expert traders and if they do a dud trade they make it about themselves (that they are stupid, lazy, incompedent or such) then when they realise that the system is really easy to use and there's no need to reinvent the wheel, they then learn to take themselves out of the trade and just work the system their results start coming in and then they realise that they are now traders.

This is why I trade, its no longer about the money its about the inner developement that trading gives us and then passing that knowledge onto others and watching them grow and expand and see them take that knowledge into their everyday lives, this gives me a real big buzz.

So to hear that you are getting what tradings all about makes me happy.

Cheers Go Getter
Go Getter When Trading Its All About "WHO YOU ARE BEING"
  • #60
  • Edited 12:12pm Sep 28, 2007 9:39am | Edited 12:12pm
How to get burned:

  1. Have an open trade at news time.
  2. Trade against the trend.
  3. Go ahead and take the trade when you are not sure it is good.
  4. After opening a trade, sit and watch price on lower timeframes.
  5. Try to pick a top or bottom.
  6. Trade after a loss; or after a win; or anytime you aren’t being objective.
  7. Trade when you’re tired or hungry.
  8. When you don’t know for sure what to do, read a forum, then decide

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