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The Biggest Challenge: What will YOU do?

  • #21
  • Aug 24, 2007 10:50am Aug 24, 2007 10:50am
Finally, I am getting something concrete to ponder about for this weekend. It's been one sleepless night after another for me, guys. I'll think about all of this PMs and replies when I wake up. It's almost 4am here.

God bless you guys...rest assured, I won't gamble all of my equity ijust yet. (at least not until I post it here).

btw, since I posted this on journal factory, i will be writing all actions that I am going to take from now on so that just in case, you are interested in finding out how I (hopefully!) recovered my losses now or months from now.

in the meantime, I am really open to all suggestions (concrete ones, please) on how to deal with my situation. like i said, i'll be needing every help/advice that I can get...

QT
  • #22
  • Aug 24, 2007 3:41pm Aug 24, 2007 3:41pm
Quoting IMQTtrader
Guys (so far...peter, 'legendary' turbo,hanover, fxsurfer)

I read all your responses to my thread. I can feel the sincerity of your messages, and I appreciate them so much. However, up to now, lots of things are going on in my mind and I really can't decide what to actually do. My situation is far more complicated than what I posted but I believe it would be quite depressing for every1 if I posted them here.

It would really be best if someone could actually give me a CONCRETE suggestion of what I should do with my situation (assuming I really want to recover my losses through forex and I still have enough to feed myself). Again, I only have about 4k in equity (i don't plan to add anymore...it's suicide already). My broker only offers 100:1 leverage.

Now, what would you do guys, if you were stuck with the same problem?

I need all your suggestions guys... I've got nobody else to talk to. (at least someone who understands the situation I'm going through - from a trader's perspective). God bless everyone! Keep those replies coming please... I'll be forever grateful.

IMtrader:

Money management is your foremost consideration. With that in mind,
use minimal leverage - only 1% or less of your account should be traded
at any given time. Some suggested demo trading and then moving
to live trading again. Demo trading carries its own mindset
which, unfortunately, does not transfer to live trading. For this reason,
in order to stay in the race with a live account, you will need to
risk minimal amounts.

Hanover's reply was excellent. Slowly work your way through the
referenced material in his post while you trade.

The only other advise I would give is: Don't be anxious to trade.
We get payed to wait. As one successful trader likes to say:
"Trades are like buses, there will always be another coming
along." Be selective, wait for the trade to come to you.
  • #23
  • Edited 11:44pm Aug 25, 2007 5:38am | Edited 11:44pm
IMQT, can you be totally sure that you now have both (1) a profitable method, and (2) the mindset necessary to implement it? If not, then what has changed from the way things were before, when you were losing money trading? If nothing has changed, isn’t the most likely scenario that you will continue to lose some more?

The best traders don’t necessarily focus on making money; rather, they focus on trading accurately and enjoyably, and letting profit take care of itself. If, to recover your losses, you set theoretical targets, you will likely place pressure on yourself, and your trading. If you fall behind a monthly target, for example, what are you going to do? Gamble by increasing your position size, and hope for the best?

Even the best traders have months of negative income. Keep in mind that trading is a game of approximate probabilities, not certainties.

If I understand Jim of the James16 thread correctly (who has 20+ years experience), he recommends demo trading for at least 3–6 months before going live. Like Winterwhite, I have learned that live trading requires a significant extension to one’s mindset, but if you trade live from day one, you’ll have to (1) develop and implement a profitable system, (2) gain experience in the mechanics of trade management, and (3) make decisions while under emotional and financial pressure, all at the same time. Much easier to take it in stages, IMHO: convince yourself that your method is consistently profitable before you put real money on the line.

My personal experience is that consistently profitable trading is very difficult. After 5 years of attempting – with only mixed success – to make money from the markets, I have recently started trading live, but my account balance represents money that I can easily afford to lose. Being risk-averse, I don’t ever want the stress of trading for a living; that is my personal choice. Trading for me will only ever be a secondary income, but I’m hoping that I will eventually master this business, and then exploit the ‘magic’ of leverage and compounding to its best possible effect.

As you point out, ‘slowly but surely’ is definitely the only way. Even compounding (for example) a consistent 5% per month - a return I can currently only dream about - it would take almost 3 years to turn your remaining $4,000 back into the original $20,000. I'm not trying to be negative; that's a mathematical reality. (And if you live in a country where you must pay tax on your profits, it's significantly more difficult than that).

David
  • #24
  • Aug 25, 2007 9:53am Aug 25, 2007 9:53am
Well even tho you are looking for opinions, the majority of the responses you have gotten are to stop trading, it sounds to me like you are just looking for the one person to tell you to go for it... that way its not your fault if you lose the rest of your money. its the fault of the one person out of 20 that told you to trade it all away....

I think if you cant resist the temptation to trade... open a micro acct with $500 or $1000, put the rest in a cd, so you cant touch it for a year. trade the micro account for a year. if you arent successful with that... maybe forex isnt the game for you.
  • #25
  • Aug 25, 2007 10:19am Aug 25, 2007 10:19am
I am never a nice person when giving advice but that's cos I dont beat around the bush.

Only lessons learnt the hard way will stick to you, go blow up as many demo accounts as you can until
1. You got totally sick of it and not think about it and blame the market OR
2. You got totally sick of it and actually start to learn from mistakes you made

Before you start calculating the profits you can get IF this happened or IF that happened, look in the mirror and ask whether you have the skill to make that kind of money. Ask yourself whether the past profitable trades were planned by you or you were just following someone else's trades.

Not advertising but the James16 private forum is a good place to start, that was where I found what I was missing all these while and after learning stuffs from in there I've found new confidence and so far my trades tell me that it was the best choice I've made.

  • #26
  • Aug 25, 2007 2:41pm Aug 25, 2007 2:41pm
  •  zinc6
  • | Joined May 2007 | Status: don't just do something, sit there! | 54 Posts
Quoting Luffy
Not advertising but the James16 private forum is a good place to start, that was where I found what I was missing all these while and after learning stuffs from in there I've found new confidence and so far my trades tell me that it was the best choice I've made.

I am also part of J16 pf and it has made all the difference to my trading. I believe it to be the best value education out there. However I would reccommend getting a basic free fx education prior to subscribing to any paid fx education service. My opinion is that you should first read the whole education section of the babypips site www.babypips.com and then all the Sticky threads in the Beginners section of this forum. This is simply the best intro to fx education you can get and these resources contain alot more info than many commercial paid fx education services. Not knocking J16 here but you would get a lot more out of the material, some of which is quite advanced, if you already have some understanding of fx mechanics & terminology.
  • #27
  • Aug 25, 2007 2:54pm Aug 25, 2007 2:54pm
I don't know if this has been mentioned already. If so it needs repeating: do not try to recover lost monies. It may be sematics but once you have learn to trade properly and profitably, you will be earning new profits, not getting back previous losses.

Trying to get back monies lost in the past is a losing battle. Every trade is a new trade. What happened yesterday, last week etc etc is in the past.

That is the lesson you should learn from your losses. The ones you have suffered and any future ones. We all have them, the key is what we learn from them.
  • #28
  • Aug 28, 2007 1:10pm Aug 28, 2007 1:10pm
Quoting hanover
Hi IMQTrader

As you and I are both discovering, there are no real short cuts to learning profitable Forex trading. Forex is not a “get rich quick” scheme. Just as it takes many years training to become a successful doctor or lawyer, it takes many years of dedicated learning to become a consistently successful Forex trader. A main reason why a large number (95%?) of traders lose is that they have “get rich quick” expectations, and are unwilling to persevere with the learning process. Eventually, the seasoned veterans happily take all of their money.

Read and learn. Test in demo. Then read and learn some more. That is the only way.

Profitable trading is about having all three of these areas sorted: mindset, money management, a positive expectancy method. If your method doesn't have a proven edge, you’re really only guessing, and luck is not sustainable indefinitely. In this context, these posts are worth a read:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=206698
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=205799

Most profitable methods amount to some variation of either (1) trading breakouts through confluent or strong support/resistance/Fibo areas; (2) entering at pullbacks in trends ("oversold" in an uptrend, "overbought" in a downtrend), when the dominant trend looks to be re-establishing itself; or (3) look for reversals at support/resistance/Fibo areas through candle patterns (e.g. hammers or shooting stars) or something similar.

Mindset is about your ability to implement the method. It takes great patience to wait for the high probability setups. Having confidence in your method is imperative; confidence can only come from knowledge and experience. Stay in demo until you have completed enough trades that you’re 100% confident that your method is profitable. Then move to a small account; size positions small to preserve capital as long as possible, and play only with money that you can afford to lose. But I guess you already know that......

Here are some suggestions:

1. Read through the babypips school of pipsology. Unless your fairly experienced, then you’ll likely learn a significant amount here (I did!): http://www.babypips.com/school/

2. Read the sticky threads at the top of the Beginner’s Q&A forum here at FF. PeterFM’s thread Help for newbies. What can you learn on FF?, in particular, is superb. http://www.forexfactory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=56

3. Try to obtain copies of the following books:

a) Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas. This classic is an excellent read in terms of developing the right mindset toward trading. Keep in mind that you need to have a consistently profitable method, also, however. (see points 4,5,6 for suggestions).

b) Bird Watching in Lion Country by Dirk du Toit. Chapters 1 thru 6 provide good insight as to a general approach to forex trading, developing a system, and pitfalls to avoid. Can be obtained here: http://www.goforex.net/forex-trading-explained.htm

4. Jacko outlines his method in the first 10 posts here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=27286
I haven’t tried Jacko’s method personally, but here’s a comment from somebody who’s apparently been mentored by him:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...8&postcount=21
Jacko emphasizes the maxim "trade with the trend".

5. Read the James16 Chart thread here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=2331
Then decide whether you want to subscribe to the James16 private forum (costs $129 per month), which takes all of this material a significant step further. There are videos there now, too. I have just re-subscribed following a 6 month absence due to ill-health. For more information:
Comments from FF members here: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=8173
More than 35 independent reviews here: http://www.forexbastards.com/public/...mes16group.com
Testimonials: http://www.james16group.com/Testimonials.html
If you decide to subscribe: http://www.james16group.com/

6. There are systems on the “Trading Systems” forum here:
http://www.forexfactory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=71
I believe the Fozzy method (http://www.forexfactory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=87) has a large following, but haven’t used it myself, hence I invite you to seek out comments from those who have. I would also suggest that you check out systems there that have a large number of posts/views, have been around for a long time, and haven’t been modified (optimized) too much during that time. The Cornflower system (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=26205) may be a case in point. Phillip Nel's systems appear to have a wide following also.

7. Apart from Jacko, some of the most successful traders on the forum include: Merlin, James16, Darkstar, SMJones, Fijitrader, Bemac, Diallist, TheRealThing, Moneyma$ter (and probably many others whom I’m unaware of). Read and absorb their posts.

8. Brokers: to understand how the different types of broker operate:
http://www.gracecheng.com/forex_trad...x_Brokers.html
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=7484
Independent broker reviews:
http://www.forexbastards.com/public/...broker_reviews
http://www.topforexreview.com/brokers.htm
Some points to keep in mind when reading the reviews:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=1491670

[Edit:] One final thought. If you're considering purchasing an automated system, or trading signals, be sure to perform due diligence - find independent reviews - before parting with your money. Again, the following may be helpful as a starting point (use Google also):
http://www.forexbastards.com/
http://www.topforexreview.com/
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=11822

Good luck
David
Excellent post David. It always amazes me to see how some of the professionals do really care and put in effort and share.
Haste not to Enter AND Haste not to Exit !-TradeStar
  • #29
  • Sep 4, 2007 8:16pm Sep 4, 2007 8:16pm
Quoting IMQTtrader
Thank you zinc6 for your deep concern for my situation - i can actually feel it. But to clarify things.. No, the money wasn't borrowed. It came from my own savings fund. It was not my risk capital either. Sadly, the remaining equity had to be considered as one, just for the sake of finding a way to recover this hard-earned money.

I understand that you are advising me to withdraw the money and learn some more of trading this risky market. honestly, I had considered this a gazillion times but I can't seem to accept just letting go of those losses without putting one more fight. Do you think it would be insane of me to risk all and GIVE IT ONE LAST SHOT? I've done this in my demo account with still 4K of equity. Now, it's almost 10K. WOULD ANYONE ADVICE ME TO DO THIS? COME ON GUYS...

If you were in my situation, would you give it a try? would you? pls. keep those advices coming... it's the first time I found such a comforting and understand community here, and i feel lucky at least for this discovery. after all, we do have similar experiences. but mine is really devastating.. you can just imagine.

so again, to those who haven't sent their suggestions yet, pls. do.

love, QT
QT,

Walk away.....leave the money in your account if you choose to, yet walk away for awhile.....don't study, don't look at charts, don't "check" the spot prices....FORGET about trading and Fx for how ever long it takes you to clear your head.

Trading IS NOT GAMBLING....and a trader needs a clear head, even on the best of days. Trust me on this, I have been there....I blew my 1st 2 accounts...the second account was GAMBLED away taking any trade in hopes of making up for the 1st blown account....and to no one's surprise but my OWN.....I lost the second account....20k usd down the drain....did it hurt, losing a leg would have hurt less in my mind.
Remember, you still have seed capital, while maybe not risk capital. Once you get your head on straight, and see things a bit clearer.....start the slow process of learning to trade....The sun WILL rise tomorrow, and it will be a bit brighter with $4k in your pocket. Think of the alternative, losing it ALL, than 4k will look a hell of a lot better than it does now!!!!......remember I did this, not once BUT 2 TIMES. It is a hard tough lesson, and it will stick with you....the hard ones always do, and if you move forward, you will be all the better for it. Even if you decide to never trade again......once you head down that slippery slope of giving it that ONE last shot, and you fail at it.....you will most def. hate yourself, and possibly set a tone for future bad habits.

Hope this helps in some small way
Fxj

P.S....You need any further help, just let me know.....
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
  • #30
  • Last Post: Sep 4, 2007 9:21pm Sep 4, 2007 9:21pm
Qt

You've already been given a tremendous amount of homework in the form of reference so I won't add to that. Can't add to it. Wow!
But I will jump on the bandwagon and encourage you to stop trading. I've been down the same road. One time was a quick 15k and the other was a slower more painful 8k. You'll never accomplish anything in the state you're in. Listen to everyone here and remove yourself for a while. You need to remove the stress in order to think clearly. As long as your involved the stress will only get worse and so will your results. I assure you, a few weeks away from this and you'll start to realize this isn't the end of the world.
If it takes a hundred people to convince you, give us a little time and we'll get them for you. If you leak away the last of your account you'll suffer an emotional thrashing worse than your current one. If you protect what's left you'll get the satisfaction of knowing you did the correct thing and weren't finished off, but merely set back.
This doesn't mean the end of trading. If you do the correct thing this time you'll be one step closer to success.
Look at the friends you've made already! The replies preceding this one are from some of the brightest, most sincere people here. Their advice is solid.

All of the best and don't just vanish--let us know how you're doing.
Bill
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