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Spot-trader: An MT4 ECN broker?

  • #21
  • Aug 27, 2007 12:14am Aug 27, 2007 12:14am
Though it appears they are swiss owned, there is a US phone number in the contact area.

I'll call them this week and find out what they offer.

Another thread at FF specifically says they offer an MT4 ECN passthrough.... definitely worth a look.
  • #22
  • Aug 27, 2007 12:44am Aug 27, 2007 12:44am
I went and fill out the form to open an account put in i was a swiss national did the hold application they still gave me a u.s. fax number to fax my documents since when a swiss broker give swiss national a u.s. fax number to fax there paper work.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #23
  • Aug 27, 2007 1:10am Aug 27, 2007 1:10am
WARNING on www.spot-forex.com

http://www.moneytec.com/forums/f33/c...ll-bugs-20762/
  • #24
  • Aug 27, 2007 1:22am Aug 27, 2007 1:22am
Quoting Digs
WARNING on www.spot-forex.com

http://www.moneytec.com/forums/f33/c...ll-bugs-20762/
thats just the begining wait till you fund your account with them, thats when the real fun begin. i don't know how long you been around forex but this is not new info.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #25
  • Nov 16, 2007 5:28pm Nov 16, 2007 5:28pm
Quoting tdion
Though it appears they are swiss owned, there is a US phone number in the contact area.

I'll call them this week and find out what they offer.

Another thread at FF specifically says they offer an MT4 ECN passthrough.... definitely worth a look.
Tdion,

Few months later, any progress on finding the ECN with MT4? I just got off the chat with Jack from atcbrokers.com. This is the transcript...

Groovy: ECN on MT4
You are now speaking with Jack of Support.
Groovy: Hi Jack
Jack: Hello,
Jack: we are currently testing the demo for the MT Pro
Groovy: was just curious if there was any progress on trying to connect ECN feeds to MetaTrader 4 platform
Groovy: what would be the spreads there?
Jack: once we are done with the testing, we will release it to the public.
Groovy: would you try to keep them fixed?
Groovy: or variable, like in a true Interbank?
Jack: on the professional the spreads are not fixed.
Jack: you will be getting the bid/ask from about 10 banks
Jack: so you will see the best bid/ask
Groovy: so price volatility would be heightened quite abit
Groovy: would there be a commission for carrying out the trades?
Jack: yes, that is how we make our profit.
Jack: we do not touch the spreads.
Groovy: what do you plan it to be?
Jack: we are still working on this, however, it will depend on account size and trading activity,
Groovy: would scalping be allowed there?
Groovy: any restrictions on it?
Jack: yes, scalping is not a problem, there are no restrictions.
Groovy: i would imagine trading on ECN thru this platform would be directly against the banks/liquidity providers
Groovy: and not against you, aka no dealing desk here
Jack: correct, no dealing desk, direct pass through.
Jack: you will get instant execution
Jack: no requotes
Groovy: minimum account size? or it's too early in the game to talk about it?
Jack: currently, we are looking at $10,000
Jack: but still a work in progress.
Groovy: so when would you expect it to be released to the public?
Jack: we want to make sure that there are no bugs in the software, dont have a definite date, but maybe within 1-2
weeks.
Groovy: would you update the website when this happens or there're other ways you can inform the traders?
Jack: i will place your email on our MT Pro list.
Groovy: thanks alot Jack
Jack: once the demo is ready, you will get an email.
Jack: no problem.
Groovy: that's all i wanted to know. Thanks again and have a g'd w/end
Jack: your welcom.e
Jack: welcome.
  • #26
  • Nov 16, 2007 6:10pm Nov 16, 2007 6:10pm
i been contacting then for the past 3 month's and they told me the same thing every month, i been on there email list about this for 3 month's now, so don't expect anything soon.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #27
  • Dec 29, 2007 2:03pm Dec 29, 2007 2:03pm
Yes they have been telling everyone a few weeks or months for half a year now. So I have trouble believing that it will ever happen at this point. I was going to IB this for them because I saw the potential and know one of the owners for a few years. Then the NFA said that they could not pay unregistered IBs anymore and apparently Cantor Fitzgerald who they had everything configured for got a letter from the CFTC which was misinterpreted and they told ATC they needed $10,000,000 to IB for them instead of $10,000,000 for the FCM. Now running everything through Hot Spot as the FCM who will hold all the funds for clients. They already have the Feed to BGC's Currenex ready to go I demoed it a while back, now they are trying to integrate HotSpot's feed into the MT4 also. Long story short they are telling me it will be another 2 weeks at least before it's all done. The deal at this point is if you start over $10,000 which is the minimum and always has been for the BGC currenex based MT4 you can trade with just he BGC feed. If you come in with less than $10,000 you will be trading on HotSpot's retail feed and if your over $10,000 you can elect to have both feeds plugged in to get the best price. Supposedly HotSpot is rolling out their own Prime Brokerage and I am pushing ATC to get that feed plugged in instead of the FXr. Which would give the trader 2 genuine ECNs plugged into the MT4. You can check my site for more info, I will update it when this is finally ready. http://www.forextradersinc.com/compa...il_trading.htm
  • #28
  • Dec 29, 2007 2:07pm Dec 29, 2007 2:07pm
one more thing the leverage will be 100 to 1
  • #29
  • Dec 29, 2007 2:27pm Dec 29, 2007 2:27pm
Quoting scottdkuehne
Then the NFA said that they could not pay unregistered IBs anymore and apparently Cantor Fitzgerald who they had everything configured for got a letter from the CFTC which was misinterpreted and they told ATC they needed $10,000,000 to IB for them instead of $10,000,000 for the FCM. Now running everything through Hot Spot as the FCM who will hold all the funds for clients. They already have the Feed to BGC's Currenex ready to go I demoed it a while back
Scott,

Does this mean ATC no longer uses Cantor's Currenex feed? (I noticed the demo you sent me back in Sept. no longer works) How does BGC's Currenex feed/spreads compare to Cantor's?
  • #30
  • Dec 29, 2007 3:03pm Dec 29, 2007 3:03pm
Quoting Trader KGB
Scott,

Does this mean ATC no longer uses Cantor's Currenex feed? (I noticed the demo you sent me back in Sept. no longer works) How does BGC's Currenex feed/spreads compare to Cantor's?
ATC still works with Cantor, Cantor is BGC. When they got told they couldn't go direct to BGC anymore all their accounts at BGC were closed. The demos either expired or were closed also. I have a MT4 demo which had the BGC feed plugged into it that ATC gave me and it was real nice but that ended when everything else did. Now the same demo has Hot Spot FXr prices on it that are live and the BGC prices are dead. Point is that they did get the BGC connection working that part is done, now they are just working on integrating the Hot Spot system. Hot Spot wants to throw their hat in the ring and get their share of the business also. They plan on running the FXr in for smaller accounts under $10,000. Like I said I am pushing Avail to get Hot Spot's new Prime Broker feed on this thing to compete against BGC's feed for the bigger accounts though. That should provide even better pricing and liquidity and execution for the traders.
  • #31
  • Dec 29, 2007 5:39pm Dec 29, 2007 5:39pm
Quoting scottdkuehne
ATC still works with Cantor, Cantor is BGC. When they got told they couldn't go direct to BGC anymore all their accounts at BGC were closed.
I see, I was getting BGC mixed up with Barclays. So if ATC still works with Cantor/BGC, why can't they go direct, and why were the accounts closed? Shouldn't they have been re-opened once Cantor/BGC realized they misinterpreted the CFTC letter?

Quote
Like I said I am pushing Avail to get Hot Spot's new Prime Broker feed on this thing to compete against BGC's feed for the bigger accounts though. That should provide even better pricing and liquidity and execution for the traders.
When you say Hotspot's new Prime Broker feed, are you referring to Hotspot FXi? If so, what will the conditions be to access it via ATC? (account minimum and monthly volume)

For the HS FXr/MT4 integration, how is ATC going to allow 1% margin, if Hotspot only offers 2% on <$100k and 3% on >$100k right now on their own FXr platform?
  • #32
  • Dec 29, 2007 6:09pm Dec 29, 2007 6:09pm
AS I mentioned in the other post Cantor is not working directly with any firmwho has less than $10,000,000 in assets. They are not holding the money for and dealing with small accounts anymore. Perhaps they just don't feel like it is worth all the BS from the NFA and CFTC.

Regarding Hot Spot Hot Spot has always had FXi which they sell to prime brokers so the prime broker can plug their network of banks into it. When a Prime Broker charges a commission per trade part of that money goes to the software company, usually $10 per million. Like I said what I heard was that Hot Spot is going to offer it's own Prime Brokerage where they hold the money and provide the banks themselves and can keep all the commissions that way. As far as leverage is concerned a company can give whatever leverage they feel comfortable offering. There is no rule or system based restriction which forces them to give you 33 to 1 or 50 to 1.
  • #33
  • Dec 29, 2007 10:16pm Dec 29, 2007 10:16pm
Scottdkuehne,
Thanks for all the info! Just to clarify, do you know if the smaller accounts (under $10,000)

running through HOT SPOT would still be ECN accounts, or a trading desk?
  • #34
  • Dec 29, 2007 10:51pm Dec 29, 2007 10:51pm
Quoting dahuds01
Scottdkuehne,
Thanks for all the info! Just to clarify, do you know if the smaller accounts (under $10,000)

running through HOT SPOT would still be ECN accounts, or a trading desk?
hotspot only offer ecn trading.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #35
  • Dec 29, 2007 11:01pm Dec 29, 2007 11:01pm
Quoting scottdkuehne
AS I mentioned in the other post Cantor is not working directly with any firmwho has less than $10,000,000 in assets. They are not holding the money for and dealing with small accounts anymore. Perhaps they just don't feel like it is worth all the BS from the NFA and CFTC.
Thanks for the clarification. Just out of curiosity, what happened to all of ATC's clients who were on BGC's Currenex when they pulled the plug? That must've been a nightmare. All the money wired out, new FCM applications signed & approved, more wires, etc. Or was it more seamless than this? (no need to sugarcoat anything, I wouldn't hold ATC accountable for it, it was outside of their hands).
  • #36
  • Dec 30, 2007 11:17am Dec 30, 2007 11:17am
I know they lost some business when that happened, my friend spoke with a former client who was leery to send money to them again. Good thing we have CFTC and NFA around to screw everything up.

Regarding small accounts with Hot Spot accounts under $10,000 will be on the Hot Spot FXr platform which has slightly worse pricing than a real ECN. Hot Spot always takes the other side of the trade initially before hedging it with a bank or matching the order against another customers position. If you read the paperwork it says that if Hot Spot has it's own positions on the other side they don't need to hedge it at all. So yeah there is a desk although it is not as crooked as most which don't even offset your position and just trade against you directly all the time. So these guys are not shifting prices running your stops etc.
  • #37
  • Jan 1, 2008 6:30am Jan 1, 2008 6:30am
Quoting scottdkuehne
Regarding small accounts with Hot Spot accounts under $10,000 will be on the Hot Spot FXr platform which has slightly worse pricing than a real ECN. Hot Spot always takes the other side of the trade initially before hedging it with a bank or matching the order against another customers position. If you read the paperwork it says that if Hot Spot has it's own positions on the other side they don't need to hedge it at all. So yeah there is a desk although it is not as crooked as most which don't even offset your position and just trade against you directly all the time. So these guys are not shifting prices running your stops etc.

Is that your assumption or actually confirmed? I strongly doubt that they hold against customer positions themselfs. If they would do that, they would be subject to a concentration charge in the NFA numbers, but they always had only the 1 mio. requirement (unlike marketmakers like Oanda, who have a way higher requirement because they actually take the other side of trades).

By the way, even on FXi, counterparty is always Hotspot (or the prime broker) for traders (or smaller LLCs). Anything short of being a bank or larger institution will not be able to meet CFTC's ECP criteria, or FSA's counterparty criteria in the case of FXi (i.e., amongst other things, a dedicated clearing account and credit lines to conduct OTC business).
  • #38
  • Jan 1, 2008 6:22pm Jan 1, 2008 6:22pm
Quoting shrike
Is that your assumption or actually confirmed? I strongly doubt that they hold against customer positions themselfs. If they would do that, they would be subject to a concentration charge in the NFA numbers, but they always had only the 1 mio. requirement (unlike marketmakers like Oanda, who have a way higher requirement because they actually take the other side of trades).

By the way, even on FXi, counterparty is always Hotspot (or the prime broker) for traders (or smaller LLCs). Anything short of being a bank or larger institution will not be able to meet CFTC's ECP criteria, or FSA's counterparty criteria in the case of FXi (i.e., amongst other things, a dedicated clearing account and credit lines to conduct OTC business).
That is not an assumption read the fine print it's all in the user agreement and trading agreements. I don't make assumptions; it is foolish to do so. Like I said they do hedge the trade once they have taken your order and filled you. Of course if they have a position on for themselves on the other side they don't need to place a new trade to cover it. How else do you think they are willing and able to give you ECN access with such a small account?

One the other hand if you read the user agreement for the FXi platform it says nothing about it. Since that is a real ECN and they do not get between you, the banks and other customers. Yes it does say the counterparty is the prime broker but that is only so that you can use their credit and status, they are not interfering with your trading at all. So they are just your counterparty on paper, it is just a way to get around the regulations.
  • #39
  • Jan 1, 2008 9:04pm Jan 1, 2008 9:04pm
http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/public...atcbrokers.com
  • #40
  • Jan 3, 2008 7:37am Jan 3, 2008 7:37am
Scott: I just went over the documents form their new site again (eu.hotspotfx.com). They explicitly state on their websites FAQ and on their 'Best execution statement' (as required by the EU Mifid-directive) that they strictly do not trade against clients, and that they arrange deals only on one of their ECN platforms, with other market participants or price providers. I personally doubt that they go on record in regulatory documents when it actually isnt true. Ofcourse, the possibility still exists, even if they state otherwise.

P.S. apparently retail clients now sign up with Hotspot FXi Europe, LLC
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