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  • #1,801
  • Sep 23, 2025 1:53am Sep 23, 2025 1:53am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-You are paying $599 for a $600 account with high leverage, rules, restrictions, limitations and mandatory profit split etc.. {quote}-If your draw-down is 600, then that is your account balance. If you start with 600, but you have to make 1k profit (10% of 10k), then that is actually a 166.67% gain, not 10% as claimed. So, if you start with 600, make 1k profit, you now have 1,600 in the account. When they 'double' your account to '20k', your new draw-down becomes 1,200, presumably, even though you technically have 1,600 in the account. The...
I always calculate my gain from the max $ in my account.
So in a 10K account, I want to make 10%, I have to make 1K net to get there. In this case, I can;t have a dd larger than $600.

In a $600 account, aiming for $60 and can't have a dd larger than $36.

I can't trade a $600 account and make it $1600 in a short time. Who is asking me to do that?
Unless you are talking leverage?
In that case, my use of leverage is very minimal anyway and I always trade a 10K account like it was a 1K account.
  • #1,802
  • Sep 23, 2025 2:16am Sep 23, 2025 2:16am
Come to think of it, Darwinex is selling instant funded accounts.
100K for a cool $1695 and you get a 15% cut of the profits that never goes up.
Plus the monthly sub of course.
How come nobody has any issues with that?
I guess that is $169.50 per 10K and 1:100 but the cut stays 15% always.
  • #1,803
  • Sep 23, 2025 6:39am Sep 23, 2025 6:39am
Quoting Blackkks
{quote} Wrong, you are compounding profits on the personal accounts and not doing same on the prop account. Wrong calculation
Please illustrate with some numbers. Your statement is kind of vague.
  • #1,804
  • Sep 23, 2025 7:01am Sep 23, 2025 7:01am
Quoting OutThere
Come to think of it, Darwinex is selling instant funded accounts. 100K for a cool $1695 and you get a 15% cut of the profits that never goes up. Plus the monthly sub of course. How come nobody has any issues with that? I guess that is $169.50 per 10K and 1:100 but the cut stays 15% always.
Nobody has stated they don't have any issues with it, it just hasn't been brought up.

However, the big difference is the 100K is 100K....that's your max loss, not 6%.

The formula to calculate your actual accout size is max loss x profit split, so your are purchasing a 15K account (100K @15% split) for $1,695.

Now at 2% return per month and you may use the 100K here because that is your max loss, it will take 6 months to get out of the red. However, after month 6 you have a 15K account with zero of your own money at risk.

On the contrary, for $860, you can get a $20K hyper growth account at the 5%ers with a $1,200 max loss and a 50% split, so here you are purchasing a $600 account for $860.......what a fucking deal.

Once again, it's really quite simple to evaluate what you are getting, account size is completely irrelevant, it is max loss * profit split....that number needs to be atleast 5 times your cost to provide any value to you as a trader....the 5%ers is actually 0.69, not even 1:1

Now, of course, you need to calculate what needs to be done to pass and/or obtain payout , which is usually 1.3 or 1.5 times max loss in a 2 step challenge and 1.5 times in a STF futures account......

Another example FTMO, 2 challenge we will call it $600 for a 100K with 10K max loss, you need 1.5 max loss to pass (10K stage 1 and 5K stage 2), which would turn $600 into $1500 in a personal account ....instead you get an 8K account (10K loss @80% split) with FTMO....over 5 times the value.

Futures.....Tradeify 150K STF with 6 K max loss, cost $500, you need 1.5 max loss (9K) for first payout, this would turn $500 into $1250 in a personal account, instead you have a $5400 (6K @90%), so this comes in at about 4.32. However, here you also pull 3K at this mark.

I hope everyone can grasp this math as it is essential to not only not being ripped off, but also required to undertsand how to trade with these firms.

One other note, yes the buying power is the account size times the leverage offered, buying power is the the ONLY thing impacted by the fake account size. So, for those that prefer high risk, yes this is beneficial, if you are OK with your risk of ruin being 4 trades or 5 trades, as opposed to 50+ as you would if it were your own money....but never, just never purchase an account that cost more than what you are actually receiving.
  • #1,805
  • Edited 7:34am Sep 23, 2025 7:22am | Edited 7:34am
Quoting OutThere
Come to think of it, Darwinex is selling instant funded accounts. 100K for a cool $1695 and you get a 15% cut of the profits that never goes up. Plus the monthly sub of course. How come nobody has any issues with that? I guess that is $169.50 per 10K and 1:100 but the cut stays 15% always.
You would need an +11.3% profit with your DARWIN to cover these costs (excluding the monthly subscription fee).

100000*0.113*0.15=1695

With the 15% profit share, you would then make $150 for every additional +1% profit.

100000*0.01*0.15=150
  • #1,806
  • Sep 23, 2025 7:32am Sep 23, 2025 7:32am
Quoting Noisy
{quote} You would need an +11.3% profit with your DARWIN to cover these costs (excluding the monthly subscription fee). 100000*0.113*0.15=1695 With the 15% profit share, you would then make $150 for every additional +1% profit. 10000*0.01*0.15=150
Yep, 2% per month would get you there by month 6.
We must also keep in mind, this is not Darwinex main product. They simply offer these as an additional way for you to earn PF while building your track record. They also now offer boosters, that are not permanent, you can add them for 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, etc
For reference, I have not purchased any of the instant or booster allocations......I am trading strictly with the seed allocations provided to me, which I have 3 darwins allocated, 2 are at HWM as of this moment.....one (my first one, CFDs) is struggling abit, but nothing major....just a lil personal battle I am having with gold and the Austrlian dollar....I hate forex!!!!
  • #1,807
  • Sep 23, 2025 7:35am Sep 23, 2025 7:35am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yep, 2% per month would get you there by month 6. We must also keep in mind, this is not Darwinex main product. They simply offer these as an additional way for you to earn PF while building your track record. They also now offer boosters, that are not permanent, you can add them for 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, etc For reference, I have not purchased any of the instant or booster allocations......I am trading strictly with the seed allocations provided to me, which I have 3 darwins allocated, 2 are at HWM as of this moment.....one (my first...
There is a math wizard on Darwinex discord, that has run all the ROIs on the various permanent allocations and the less expensive one for $425 where you need to make 10% to trigger it actually offers the best ROI.....I almost grabbed that one when I was almost in 4% DD earlier this month....that is truly the way to use those......if you have a profitable system, grabbed them when you are in DD and purchase the ones with targets attached.
  • #1,808
  • Sep 23, 2025 7:52am Sep 23, 2025 7:52am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} I always calculate my gain from the max $ in my account. So in a 10K account, I want to make 10%, I have to make 1K net to get there. In this case, I can;t have a dd larger than $600. In a $600 account, aiming for $60 and can't have a dd larger than $36. I can't trade a $600 account and make it $1600 in a short time. Who is asking me to do that? Unless you are talking leverage? In that case, my use of leverage is very minimal anyway and I always trade a 10K account like it was a 1K account.
Where everyone's math gets skewed is on risk of ruin. Like I have stated it is very clever marketing and abolutely by design.
Traders apply the risk per trade to the account balance and not to the max loss, so risking 1% in a peronal account of $600 would be $6...therefore, using the same risk of ruin on the prop account of 100 trades, the risk on a prop account with max loss $600, well, it is also $6. So the point I am making is if both the personal and the prop account are risking $6 per trade, it will take the same EXACT amount of time to make 1K profit.
  • #1,809
  • Sep 23, 2025 7:54am Sep 23, 2025 7:54am
Hey Pip, I'm not a big fan of the classic Instant models but if you add a few more variables into the equation it's actually possible to have a better result using the HyperGrowth account than a personal one. I was away from remote prop trading for a while but I'm adding a few accounts on the side and I'm considereing to add a few HiperGrowth ones to the portfolio in the future. They are not my first choice but I do see some good value. In the end it all comes down to personal preference but I believe you could consider a few different scenarios:

 

  1. If you want to make the same withdraws you would be able to do with the instant account, it would not be possible to do it with the personal one;
  2. If you choose to keep the profits in the instant account and use it to trade and compound, it would generate a better result than the personal account alone would;
  3. If you take the full payout amount from every level and compound it at the same rate as the instant account, that would definetely produce the higher return and the least exposure.

If you run the numbers you'll see what I mean. I probably have a spreadsheet with that comparison if you wanna take a look.

Sure, there are important risks outside the markets to take in consideration when we are talking about larger figures with remote prop firms and keeping the money in. I'm not advocating for that, we know how this kind of business is run. Just wanna show the math from a different perspective.

  • #1,810
  • Sep 23, 2025 7:55am Sep 23, 2025 7:55am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yep, 2% per month would get you there by month 6. We must also keep in mind, this is not Darwinex main product. They simply offer these as an additional way for you to earn PF while building your track record. They also now offer boosters, that are not permanent, you can add them for 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, etc For reference, I have not purchased any of the instant or booster allocations......I am trading strictly with the seed allocations provided to me, which I have 3 darwins allocated, 2 are at HWM as of this moment.....one (my first...
So far, even the monthly fee isn't worth it for me. My DARWIN is currently at 0.15% return and 4% drawdown. According to the DarwinIA calculator, it would need to reach +5.2% by the end of September to secure the minimum rating of 75 and thus at least the 30k silver allocation for October, November, and December. But then I would have already paid the fee five times for August, September, October, November, and December, which would total €190.

It'll definitely take too long if my DARWIN doesn't become more profitable. I have no idea if that was a good idea. I'm paying the fee every month now and probably won't get anything out of it for a long time.
  • #1,811
  • Sep 23, 2025 8:41am Sep 23, 2025 8:41am
Quoting TheManning
Hey Pip, I'm not a big fan of the classic Instant models but if you add a few more variables into the equation it's actually possible to have a better result using the HyperGrowth account than a personal one. I was away from remote prop trading for a while but I'm adding a few accounts on the side and I'm considereing to add a few HiperGrowth ones to the portfolio in the future. They are not my first choice but I do see some good value. In the end it all comes down to personal preference but I believe you could consider a few different scenarios:...
I am always open to looking, if you can show it in real numbers. I just cannot see how it could ever be beneficial when you are INITIALLY paying more for what they are actually giving you....I mean $860 for a $1200 max loss with 50% split....so $860 for $600.........how do you ever recover from that?
Especially when for $500 you can do $100K high stakes which offers 8K (10K loss @80%) which, even better than FTMO only requires 1.3, so would be $1,150 in personal, offering a value of 6.95?
  • #1,812
  • Edited 10:39am Sep 23, 2025 10:27am | Edited 10:39am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Where everyone's math gets skewed is on risk of ruin. Like I have stated it is very clever marketing and abolutely by design. Traders apply the risk per trade to the account balance and not to the max loss, so risking 1% in a peronal account of $600 would be $6...therefore, using the same risk of ruin on the prop account of 100 trades, the risk on a prop account with max loss $600, well, it is also $6. So the point I am making is if both the personal and the prop account are risking $6 per trade, it will take the same EXACT amount of time...
I can only speak for myself. Yes, it's clever marketing, and you have a higher risk of total loss if you calculate the same percentage risk based on your Account Balance than if you calculate it based on the Maximum Loss Limit set by the prop and assuming the same number of trades.

Here's an example that illustrates this using the $10,000 FTMO Challenge account, where you calculate your risk based on your

A) Account Balance: $10,000,
B) Maximum Loss Limit: $1,000
C) Personal Account: $184.63 (Cost of the $10,000 FTMO Challenge)

Scenario A) Risk calculation based on the Account Balance

Account Balance: $10,000
Maximum Loss: $1,000 (10%)
Profit Target: $1,000 (10%)

Risk per Trade: $100 (1% of Account Balance)
Risk of Ruin: 10 losing trades

Risk:Reward Ratio: 1:1
Wins: 10
Losses: 0

Trades required to reach the profit target: 10

Scenario B) Risk calculation based on the Maximum Loss Limit

Account Balance = Maximum Loss: $1,000

Risk per Trade: $10 (1% of Account Balance)
Risk of Ruin: 100 trades

Risk/Reward Ratio: 1:1
Wins: 100
Losses: 0

Trades required to reach the profit target: 100

Scenario C) Risk calculation based on a Personal Account

Account Balance: $184.63
Maximum Loss: $184.63 (100%)
Profit Target: -

Risk per Trade: $1.84 (1% of Account Balance)
Risk of Ruin: 100 losing trades

Based on this, you can say that you can lose 10 times more trades if you calculate your risk based on the prop's Maximum Loss Limit instead of the Account Balance provided to you. You can also say that you would then have to generate 10 times more profitable trades, which in turn would make it difficult to reach the prop firm's profit targets in a timely manner.

In my last 10K FTMO Challenge, I personally risked 0.25% per trade ($25/trade) based on my Account Balance of $10,000, which gave me a risk of ruin of 40 trades (40 x 0.25% = 10%), as if I had instead risked 0.25% ($2.5/trade) based on the Maximum Loss Limit of $1,000 which would have given me a risk of ruin of 400 trades (400 x 0.25% = 100%).

Of course, the latter would have given me 10 times more room for error, but if you're aware of that from the start, I don't see it as a problem. I don't see the Maximum Loss Limit that the prop gives explicitly as my account, as many here think that this would be the only right way to properly assess one's risk.
  • #1,813
  • Sep 23, 2025 12:11pm Sep 23, 2025 12:11pm
10 years FTMO
19% off 100K challenge at FTMO

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www.ftmo.com
  • #1,814
  • Edited 5:01pm Sep 23, 2025 12:17pm | Edited 5:01pm
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https://atfunded.com/introducing-tau...unded-traders/






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ATFunded performance Hub

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  • #1,815
  • Sep 23, 2025 4:10pm Sep 23, 2025 4:10pm
FUNDING TICKS THE GOAT...

RECEIVED PAYOUT WITHIN 24H>.......


5000$x6 == 27000$ (90% split + 10$ per transaction fees deducted by fundingticks) === 26940$....

BEST ROI IN THE WORLD - 500$ to 27000$ in total 8 trading days


FUNDINGTICKS FIRST ONE TO RECEIVE///

BGF - 1350$x3 ALREADY UNDER REVIEW

AQUA - 1500$x3 CANT SUBMIT REQUEST. DASHBOARD ISSUES KYLE(OWNER) SAID WILL BE FIXED BY THE END OF THE DAY

FOR TODAY

REQUESTING - 5000$ x5 topstep just now
REQUESTING - 1000$x5 mffu just now
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #1,816
  • Sep 23, 2025 4:11pm Sep 23, 2025 4:11pm
Quoting montygoldy
FUNDING TICKS THE GOAT... RECEIVED PAYOUT WITHIN 24H>....... 5000$x6 == 27000$ (90% split + 10$ per transaction fees deducted by fundingticks) === 26940.... FUNDINGTICKS FIRST ONE TO RECEIVE RECEIVED/// BGF - 1350$x3 ALREADY UNDER REVIEW AQUA - 1500$x3 CANT SUBMIT REQUEST. DASHBOARD ISSUES KYLE(OWNER) SAID WILL BE FIXED...
WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congratulations Bro !!!!
Drawdown is more important than Account Size !
  • #1,817
  • Sep 23, 2025 4:39pm Sep 23, 2025 4:39pm
Quoting OutThere
I always calculate my gain from the max $ in my account. So in a 10K account, I want to make 10%, I have to make 1K net to get there. In this case, I can;t have a dd larger than $600. In a $600 account, aiming for $60 and can't have a dd larger than $36. I can't trade a $600 account and make it $1600 in a short time. Who is asking me to do that?
-The whole point that I was trying to make is that a 10k account is not a 10k account. It is a $600 account if your draw-down allowance is 6%. Your draw-down is your account, with high leverage and no automatic stop-out.
  • #1,818
  • Sep 23, 2025 5:17pm Sep 23, 2025 5:17pm
Quoting montygoldy
FUNDING TICKS THE GOAT... RECEIVED PAYOUT WITHIN 24H>....... 5000$x6 == 27000$ (90% split + 10$ per transaction fees deducted by fundingticks) === 26940$.... BEST ROI IN THE WORLD - 500$ to 27000$ in total 8 trading days FUNDINGTICKS FIRST ONE TO RECEIVE/// BGF - 1350$x3 ALREADY UNDER REVIEW AQUA - 1500$x3 CANT SUBMIT...
MFFU CAME THROUGH IN 50 mins only

1000$ x5 = 4000(80% split)....

3 more to come bgf, aqua, topstep....

Getting Really close to 100k NETT month --> 61k payout incoming today.... 22k from tradeday, 12k before from fundingtick.....

Upcoiming payoute next week - Lucid, tradeify all hit threshold today just need to hit 3k more then toal of 27000$ from lucid n tradeify incoming... Heck aiming for 125k NETT MONTH biggest of my lifetime
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #1,819
  • Sep 23, 2025 5:41pm Sep 23, 2025 5:41pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} MFFU CAME THROUGH IN 50 mins only 1000$ x5 = 4000(80% split).... 3 more to come bgf, aqua, topstep.... Getting Really close to 100k NETT month --> 61k payout incoming today.... 22k from tradeday, 12k before from fundingtick..... Upcoiming payoute next week - Lucid, tradeify all hit threshold today just need to hit 3k more then toal of 27000$ from lucid n tradeify incoming... Heck aiming...
it feels like you earned this month what you earned in 8 months before together.
  • #1,820
  • Edited 6:10pm Sep 23, 2025 6:00pm | Edited 6:10pm
Quoting Trader191
{quote} it feels like you earned this month what you earned in 8 months before together.
yep in last 8 months i was having high blood pressure with cheap challenges like futureselite, bgf, aqua etc
heck this month nett earning gonna match my yearly base salary
…

best part is minimal possible time spent from eval to payout…
cost of evals is minimal as well coz passed every one of those accounts in max two tries…
Extreme gut feeling trader
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