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  • #1,781
  • Sep 22, 2025 12:33pm Sep 22, 2025 12:33pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Yes, that's right but I don't think you see what I mean.
OK, the target is 10% on each level, but in reality it is 167% as you have to make the 10% with only 6% DD.
So you pay what $500 for a 10K with $600 max loss?
To get to level 10, you must 167% the account 9 times and your max loss on 4 million is still only $240KIf you put the $500 in a personal account and DO 167% 9 times, you will have 3.4 MILLION VS. 240k, BECAUSE IN A PERSOANL ACCOUNT YOUR ENTIRE ACCOUNT IS YOUR max loss.
Do you understand now?

I cannot make the math any clearer than this.
  • #1,782
  • Sep 22, 2025 12:40pm Sep 22, 2025 12:40pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} OK, the target is 10% on each level, but in reality it is 167% as you have to make the 10% with only 6% DD. So you pay what $500 for a 10K with $600 max loss? To get to level 10, you must 167% the account 9 times and your max loss on 4 million is still only $240KIf you put the $500 in a personal account and DO 167% 9 times, you will have 3.4 MILLION VS. 240k, BECAUSE IN A PERSOANL ACCOUNT YOUR ENTIRE ACCOUNT IS YOUR max loss. Do you understand now? I cannot make the math any clearer than this.
Now, you have also made 256K in profit during these 10 stages and avg profit split is 75%, we'll call it 80 and round up to 200K paid........
so you have made 200K and you have a 240K max loss DD to work with or
You have a 3.4 million dollar account, if you paid yourself the same 200K, you are at 3.2 million.
It's fantasy land and very, very clever marketing.
  • #1,783
  • Sep 22, 2025 12:45pm Sep 22, 2025 12:45pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Now, you have also made 256K in profit during these 10 stages and avg profit split is 75%, we'll call it 80 and round up to 200K paid........ so you have made 200K and you have a 240K max loss DD to work with or You have a 3.4 million dollar account, if you paid yourself the same 200K, you are at 3.2 million. It's fantasy land and very, very clever marketing.
Even the 2 stage challenges, which give you much, much higher return over a personal account initially, they become break even around month 15-16 and from that point you would have been better with a personal account.
However, in that first year, you will be earning much higher returns vs. a personal account and of course you may use the returns to fund your own account.
I have done all of this math.....math is math, it is not an opinion.
  • #1,784
  • Sep 22, 2025 12:47pm Sep 22, 2025 12:47pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Now, you have also made 256K in profit during these 10 stages and avg profit split is 75%, we'll call it 80 and round up to 200K paid........ so you have made 200K and you have a 240K max loss DD to work with or You have a 3.4 million dollar account, if you paid yourself the same 200K, you are at 3.2 million. It's fantasy land and very, very clever marketing.
Agreed...although the obvious difference is that with 5ers you have greater buying power. But as we both know, that is designed to hinder rather than help
  • #1,785
  • Sep 22, 2025 12:51pm Sep 22, 2025 12:51pm
Quoting Zuke
{quote} Agreed...although the obvious difference is that with 5ers you have greater buying power. But as we both know, that is designed to hinder rather than help
Exactly. I have already stated the buying power is on the "account size" for a reason....it is designed for quicker failure.
a 100K prop account with 100:1 leverage is, in reality, a $10K account witha 1000:1....I just can't for the life of me understand why 95% fail.
  • #1,786
  • Sep 22, 2025 1:39pm Sep 22, 2025 1:39pm
As NQ hitting All time highs 25k.....

Secured more funding - E8futures - 100kx5 - A bit expensive i.e 170$ per account + now need to a pay activation fees as well somewhere around 150$ per account...

Tried purchasing fxifyfutres but my bank is blocking their payment gateway which is very very odd... happened never before...... So left them for now.... But they have sweet deal for 100k account ---> with all the addons + coupon it'll cost 200$ for advanced account with 4500$dd + no dll + target 7000$
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #1,787
  • Edited 3:25pm Sep 22, 2025 2:19pm | Edited 3:25pm
Quoting pipmaster77
OK, the target is 10% on each level, but in reality it is 167% as you have to make the 10% with only 6% DD.
Yes, but firstly, with the prop firm, you are compensated from your account balance and not from your drawdown limit. And secondly, you are not forced to calculate your risk based on the maximum drawdown limit; you can also use the account balance instead.

If you risk 1% of the $5,000 account balance available to you that the prop firm provides (-$50 per trade), your maximum drawdown limit is -6% (-$300), and you win 10 trades in a row with a 1:1 risk:reward ratio, you have made +10%, and your account balance is now at $5,500. If you get paid out 50% of the $500 you made, you have earned $250.

If, instead, you had lost 6 trades in a row at 1%, you would have reached your maximum drawdown limit of -6% (-$300) and you're out. Good bye to your $260 that you’ve paid for that prop account.

Whether you were overleveraged is another matter. Don’t forget with CFDs/Forex, you can scale down your position size into fractions and 1 tick of price fluctuation doesn’t has to mean you have to risk min. $12.50 or similar. You can risk $0.01 per tick, so it gives you still enough room for a adequate stop loss level risking a max. of 1% per trade.

Now if you do the same thing with a personal account of $260, risking 1% per trade (-$2.60) and also win 10 consecutive trades with a 1:1 risk:reward ratio, you also have made +10% (+$26). You keep 100%. So you have earned $26. That's almost 10 times less than with the prop.

Edit: At this time (and in case of the Hyper Growth program) your $5,000 prop account is scaled to $10,000 while your personal account is still at $260.
  • #1,788
  • Edited 3:51pm Sep 22, 2025 3:28pm | Edited 3:51pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Yes, but firstly, with the prop firm, you are compensated from your account balance and not from your drawdown limit. And secondly, you are not forced to calculate your risk based on the maximum drawdown limit; you can also use the account balance instead. If you risk 1% of the $5,000 account balance available to you that the prop firm provides (-$50 per trade), your maximum drawdown limit is -6% (-$300), and you win 10 trades in a row with a 1:1 risk:reward ratio, you have made +10%, and your account balance is now at $5,500. If you get...
Wow, just wow....so my one question is this, if you have a $300 max loss with the prop firm and a $260 max loss in your personal account.......WHAT ON EARTH MAKES YOU THINK YOU SHOULD RISK 17X MORE PER TRADE IN THE PROP FIRM???? So you are allowing 100 losses to blow the account in personal but only allowing 6 trades to blow the account in the prop firm?
Of course you would make "almost 10 times more with the prop", you are risking 17 times more.....you only make 10 times more becuase they are taking half.
If you are risking $2.60 per trade in personal, it should be $3 per trade on that program.......If you are risking $50 per trade with that program, you should be risking $43.33 per trade in the personal.
15 years trading????? Are you serious????
This is where I check out........this is simply too basic to keep having to explain it.
  • #1,789
  • Sep 22, 2025 5:44pm Sep 22, 2025 5:44pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote}This is where I check out........this is simply too basic to keep having to explain it.
Now you know how an orangutan feels when he tries to teach his babies how to peel their first banana.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #1,790
  • Sep 22, 2025 8:44pm Sep 22, 2025 8:44pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Wow, just wow....so my one question is this, if you have a $300 max loss with the prop firm and a $260 max loss in your personal account.......WHAT ON EARTH MAKES YOU THINK YOU SHOULD RISK 17X MORE PER TRADE IN THE PROP FIRM???? So you are allowing 100 losses to blow the account in personal but only allowing 6 trades to blow the account in the prop firm? Of course you would make "almost 10 times more with the prop", you are risking 17 times more.....you only make 10 times more becuase they are taking half. If you are risking $2.60 per trade...
How about scaling plans?
Every time you make 10% in your personal account, you get 10% but in instant funding, you could get 110% to work with. Isn't it worth giving them 5% of your gains for 100% increase in your purchasing power?
  • #1,791
  • Sep 22, 2025 9:16pm Sep 22, 2025 9:16pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} How about scaling plans? Every time you make 10% in your personal account, you get 10% but in instant funding, you could get 110% to work with. Isn't it worth giving them 5% of your gains for 100% increase in your purchasing power?
Once again, if keeping risk of ruin the same in both, a 10% increase in the personal ($26), would be a $30 gain in the prop.
To hit the $500 target to scale, you would need to do that 16.67 times, this would result in a $433 gain in the personal, giving you $693.
The prop would now scale you to 10K but you now still only have a $600 max loss.
I know you, of all people, know this.
  • #1,792
  • Sep 22, 2025 9:31pm Sep 22, 2025 9:31pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Once again, if keeping risk of ruin the same in both, a 10% increase in the personal ($26), would be a $30 gain in the prop. To hit the $500 target to scale, you would need to do that 16.67 times, this would result in a $433 gain in the personal, giving you $693. The prop would now scale you to 10K but you now still only have a $600 max loss. I know you, of all people, know this.
Only scenario, I can think advantageous in case of prop firm is if you have scaled 5-6 times you pulled out money and effectively no risk on table but one can do that on personal account but when trader is on tilt they can deposit back
  • #1,793
  • Sep 22, 2025 9:32pm Sep 22, 2025 9:32pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Once again, if keeping risk of ruin the same in both, a 10% increase in the personal ($26), would be a $30 gain in the prop. To hit the $500 target to scale, you would need to do that 16.67 times, this would result in a $433 gain in the personal, giving you $693. The prop would now scale you to 10K but you now still only have a $600 max loss. I know you, of all people, know this.
I thought some of them double your funds with every 10% gain. No?
No I didn't know instant funding required you to gain 100% before scaling you up as you say.
  • #1,794
  • Sep 22, 2025 9:38pm Sep 22, 2025 9:38pm
ok this one is tier based.
https://help.fundednext.com/en/artic...585949913660b0
I haven't really looked at these things before. I just have cursory knowledge. My question was meant to spur discussion only.
  • #1,795
  • Sep 22, 2025 10:19pm Sep 22, 2025 10:19pm
Example: https://fundedsquad.com/scaling-plan...-need-to-know/
FundedSquad has transformed the scaling process by offering 100% account growth with every 10% profit milestone. Here’s why traders prefer FundedSquad:.....
  • #1,796
  • Sep 23, 2025 12:11am Sep 23, 2025 12:11am
CTI seems to have a good instant program. They have mt4 and allow EA's and hold weekends and no need for SL. Correct me if I am wrong.
-> Reach 10% profit to double your account size.

https://citytradersimperium.com/direct-funding-program/

10K for $599 for a 6% ddl. It is 1:1 but a 10% profit doubles the account,
Only thing is the the leverage is 1:10, so as pip says, 10K is like $1000 with a 1:100 leverage.
So you are paying $599 to trade a 1K acct at 1:100 leverage.
Still, in personal acct, you will have $660 after 10% (at whatever leverage in your account) and here you will have 20k worth 2K at 1:100
If one manages to constantly double their scaled allocations, I think the instant funding wins at the end.
  • #1,797
  • Sep 23, 2025 12:14am Sep 23, 2025 12:14am
Quoting OutThere
CTI seems to have a good instant program. -> Reach 10% profit to double your account size. https://citytradersimperium.com/direct-funding-program/ 10K for $599 for a 6% ddl. It is 1:1 but a 10% profit doubles the account, Only thing is the the leverage is 1:10, so as pip says, 10K is like $1000 with a 1:100 leverage. So you are paying $599 to trade a 1K acct at 1:100 leverage. Still, in personal acct, you will have $660 (at whatever leverage in your account) and here you will have 20k worth 2K at 1:100 If one manages to constantly double...
Paying for your drawdown. Complete garbage like most instant funded accounts

Maven Trading 10K for $59.

3% drawdown
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #1,798
  • Sep 23, 2025 12:34am Sep 23, 2025 12:34am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Paying for your drawdown. Complete garbage like most instant funded accounts Maven Trading 10K for $59. 3% drawdown
OK. Thanks for looking into it.
  • #1,799
  • Sep 23, 2025 1:34am Sep 23, 2025 1:34am
Quoting OutThere
10K for $599 for a 6% ddl.
-You are paying $599 for a $600 account with high leverage, rules, restrictions, limitations and mandatory profit split etc..

Quoting OutThere
Still, in personal acct, you will have $660 after 10% (at whatever leverage in your account) and here you will have 20k worth 2K at 1:100
-If your draw-down is 600, then that is your account balance. If you start with 600, but you have to make 1k profit (10% of 10k), then that is actually a 166.67% gain, not 10% as claimed.

So, if you start with 600, make 1k profit, you now have 1,600 in the account. When they 'double' your account to '20k', your new draw-down becomes 1,200, presumably, even though you technically have 1,600 in the account.

The question now becomes... do they actually let you withdraw any of that profit, and if so, how much and when? Keeping in mind that most models require you to share your profits with the firm, you will have to calculate the differences between instant and personal, while also considering any rules, limitations or restrictions that the firm imposes that would not be present with a personal account.

In many cases, the instant funding model is simply not worth it. Some models may not even allow you to withdraw profits, requiring you to keep them in the account in order to 'level-up'. Such predatory models should be banned, in my opinion.
  • #1,800
  • Sep 23, 2025 1:42am Sep 23, 2025 1:42am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Even the 2 stage challenges, which give you much, much higher return over a personal account initially, they become break even around month 15-16 and from that point you would have been better with a personal account. However, in that first year, you will be earning much higher returns vs. a personal account and of course you may use the returns to fund your own account. I have done all of this math.....math is math, it is not an opinion.
Wrong, you are compounding profits on the personal accounts and not doing same on the prop account. Wrong calculation
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