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  • #1,181
  • Aug 31, 2025 12:29am Aug 31, 2025 12:29am
Quoting driven18
{quote} Good Luck Pip! You are very knowledgeable in the prop area! Subscribed.
This is very good stuff. Thank you for putting out this info.
  • #1,182
  • Aug 31, 2025 5:50am Aug 31, 2025 5:50am
I think the fact that prop firms only lose money when you're winning makes me want to avoid them at all costs

I'm not comfortable with a "broker" that is basically against you. There is too much market manipulation and spread manipulation already without adding another layer of corruptability

thanks but no thanks

Jeff
  • #1,183
  • Aug 31, 2025 9:02am Aug 31, 2025 9:02am
I think that they are very good when you are starting out, they provide big capital for a small amount but once you make it if you make it and are able to get good money they want you out.

They both agree that Forex propfirms has less restrictions but are harder to grow because they limit your funds.

With futures trader kane had 20+ accounts

Trader kane which has the biggest payout in history 2 m says that after it he could no login into the account and they did not reply to his emails, so he got the message, but they did pay him his 2 mill.

Bernd a German trader that has the record to be the top trader of ftmo of being more times on the leaderboard mentions that he wants to get away from propfirms, they scam him 50k not ftmo but other prop firm.
But he says that is tired of getting more and more restrictions, that he is constantly recieving emails threatening to close the account if hi does not reduce his size, hi trades on a long term basis on the daily chart and only risk 1%-1.5%, and that is their top trader who they should trust.

So like I say at the beginning they are good to start out and build capital but then is time to move

Pd: trader kane was with apex

Kind regards
  • #1,184
  • Aug 31, 2025 9:17am Aug 31, 2025 9:17am
Quoting Jeffo
I think the fact that prop firms only lose money when you're winning makes me want to avoid them at all costs I'm not comfortable with a "broker" that is basically against you. There is too much market manipulation and spread manipulation already without adding another layer of corruptability thanks but no thanks Jeff
Well then you might want to avoid about 95% of forex brokers as well.
  • #1,185
  • Aug 31, 2025 9:27am Aug 31, 2025 9:27am
Quoting Jeffo
I think the fact that prop firms only lose money when you're winning makes me want to avoid them at all costs

I agree.

But that’s obviously not true of the few futures funding prop firms that open verifiably funded CME sub-accounts for people, though?

Once you’re in that position, they can only profit if you profit.

It’s just identifying them and getting to that position that’s the problem, isn’t it?

But that’s where threads like this one are so helpful.


Quoting Jeffo
I'm not comfortable with a "broker" that is basically against you.

No, I agree. That’s just the “CFD story”, though? Even the ones who call themselves STP or ECN can be against you. And if they use a "liquidity provider" it can turn out they own it themselves (like FXCM did).

Futures seem much safer, all round, however you look at it?
  • #1,186
  • Aug 31, 2025 9:29am Aug 31, 2025 9:29am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Well then you might want to avoid about 95% of forex brokers as well.
you speak about the pure b-book brokers . when you want make bigger money, you should avoid this kind of brokers for sure .... for small wins they are often ok too... same like prop.
  • #1,187
  • Aug 31, 2025 9:57am Aug 31, 2025 9:57am
Quoting pipmaster77
Well then you might want to avoid about 95% of forex brokers as well.

That’s for sure.

But - as anyone with any real experience of working in the industry will tell you - that’s obviously why most of the (very few) CFD forex traders who ever really become steadily successful end up inevitably switching to futures and reporting that they wish they‘d done so earlier.

Did you ever hear of anyone switching back?

I didn’t, either.

Thanks for starting the thread, pipmaster77. It’s already a huge improvement on the former one.
  • #1,188
  • Aug 31, 2025 10:10am Aug 31, 2025 10:10am
The post is not directed at any individual person, but just my views from many years of trading across many markets.

There is no doubt that prop firms offer the average undercapitalized trader an opportunity entry into the trading world, but the trick is finding the one or two firms that will be honest & do as they as they will in their sales pitch. I currently have a prop account that is going well at the moment & I will stay with it until it works no more.

Another way to approach funding an account I like is finding a private investor who has knowledge of the trading-investing world that will fund an account for you with favorable payout terms for you. I have such an account & the only rule is no make money while not losing the initial investment. This approach is working well for me & the investor. I first used this approach during the time I traded in the SOS Bandit days.

There are too many rules in the prop industry that are clearly designed for you to fail. A true prop firm (such as SMB Capital) has a totally different business model with clearly defined rules to protect their capital & to encourage the trader to practice risk management. Yes, their capital is at risk & live trading with them means just that, LIVE. I have no affiliation with SMB Captial but did due diligence into their program & it looks good & they offer remote trading after completing their training program. I am just not that fun of trading stocks.

As some have said on this site & others.... trading is not for everyone & trading is not totally about buying & selling, but risk management. Aspiring traders should research the Turtle Traders by the Richard Dennis fame. Most of the original group failed even after Dennis shared his trading methods & funded their initial accounts. Trading is clearly a business & should be ran as such. Gambling is in Vegas.

Pipmaster77 I want to thank you for setting up your own Prop Firm thread. I wish you the best with your Darwin accounts.

Best of trade to everyone.
_______________________________
  • #1,189
  • Aug 31, 2025 10:12am Aug 31, 2025 10:12am
Quoting Quickly
{quote} That’s for sure. But - as anyone with any real experience of working in the industry will tell you - that’s obviously why most of the (very few) CFD forex traders who ever really become steadily successful end up inevitably switching to futures and reporting that they wish they‘d done so earlier. Did you ever hear of anyone switching back? I didn’t, either. Thanks for starting the thread, pipmaster77. It’s already a huge improvement on the former one.
Hi Quickly,
So true. I made the switch.
  • #1,190
  • Edited 10:54am Aug 31, 2025 10:13am | Edited 10:54am
Quoting Quickly
{quote} That’s for sure. But - as anyone with any real experience of working in the industry will tell you - that’s obviously why most of the (very few) CFD forex traders who ever really become steadily successful end up inevitably switching to futures and reporting that they wish they‘d done so earlier. Did you ever hear of anyone switching back? I didn’t, either. Thanks for starting the thread, pipmaster77. It’s already a huge improvement on the former one.
i switched back, in scalping or daytrading currencies futures had no advantages against cfd....
for different markets and different time in market (daytrading, swing trading, long term trading) combinations its different of course....

when you from the industry you should know already for what combinations of market and time in market what kind of trading object has advantages/disadvantages (futures, options. cfd with spot , forward and swaps.....and so on) ... so your answer is not very correct for retails traders.... for funds with sometimes different rules the answer will change depends on the rules.
  • #1,191
  • Aug 31, 2025 10:31am Aug 31, 2025 10:31am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} i switched back, in scalping or daytrading currencies futures had no advantages against cfd.... for different markets and different time in market (daytrading, swing trading, long term trading) combinations its different of course.... when you from the industry you should know already for what combinations of market and time in market what kind of trading object (futures, options. cfd with spot , forward and swaps.....and so on) ... so your answer is not very correct for retails traders.... for funds with sometimes different rules the answer...
For me, futures is indices and day trading. I do not trade currency futures, as you stated, I see no advantadge. Forex I am more of a hydrid day trader-swing trader. I love to be out end of day, but I recently held a GBPCAD trade for almost 2 weeks.
  • #1,192
  • Aug 31, 2025 11:25am Aug 31, 2025 11:25am
Quoting Takisd
The shitty prop firm drug addict hacker is back expect some outages of firms website (only website he is not good hacker)
He's not Tweeting this time it seems.
  • #1,193
  • Aug 31, 2025 11:44am Aug 31, 2025 11:44am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} if your system has >2 years of forward tested live market profitability and has survived several losing streaks/drawdown periods with a >2.0 Sharpe/Sortino ratio... I would say you have a profitable system with a clear edge.
Got a Sharp-Ratio of 2.33 for the last 24 months (just did some backtesting).

Quote
Any Sharpe ratio greater than 1.0 is considered acceptable to good by investors. A ratio higher than 2.0 is rated as very good. A ratio of 3.0 or higher is considered excellent. A ratio under 1.0 is considered sub-optimal.

Source: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...arpe-ratio.asp
  • #1,194
  • Aug 31, 2025 11:56am Aug 31, 2025 11:56am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} For me, futures is indices and day trading. I do not trade currency futures, as you stated, I see no advantadge. Forex I am more of a hydrid day trader-swing trader. I love to be out end of day, but I recently held a GBPCAD trade for almost 2 weeks.
From all the professional traders and investors that I’ve listened/watched to over the last month, the common consensus is, that the real/big money is made by letting profits run and therefore probably hold overnight.

I wonder why everyone actually wants/tries to be a „daytrader/scalper“? I believe it has more to do with people are bored and actually looking for some kind of occupational therapy instead of staying profitable over time?
  • #1,195
  • Aug 31, 2025 12:03pm Aug 31, 2025 12:03pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} From all the professional traders and investors that I’ve listened/watched to over the last month, the common consensus is, that the real/big money is made by letting profits run and therefore probably hold overnight. I wonder why everyone actually wants/tries to be a „daytrader/scalper“? I believe it has more to do with people are bored and actually looking for some kind of occupational therapy instead of staying profitable over time?
because most start with small capital!
when you have small capital until 1 million (depends on strategy and your experience how far you can go until edge break in parts) the disadvantages from daytrading are compensated more by the advantages of daytrading (if you know what you do!) ... if you get bigger money the disadvantages of daytrading come in play more and more .... so maybe the professional people you speak about have many millions to trade with.... and of course when you mention the word investors it means you hold the position extrem long?

but dont understand me wrong.... most people should never daytrade.. they dont even learn full theory about it and bring themself in full disadvantage in a negative-sum-market (you hear then blaming emotions for the results , or the market was against them or people was running for their stops ...and so on.. but in reality they started trading before learn full the theory)
  • #1,196
  • Aug 31, 2025 12:16pm Aug 31, 2025 12:16pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} From all the professional traders and investors that I’ve listened/watched to over the last month, the common consensus is, that the real/big money is made by letting profits run and therefore probably hold overnight. I wonder why everyone actually wants/tries to be a „daytrader/scalper“? I believe it has more to do with people are bored and actually looking for some kind of occupational therapy instead of staying profitable over time?
This is the main reason I don't like using futures prop firms.

I do day trade and do some scalping with foreign currencies but I like the option of swing trading or just the ability to hold overnight.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #1,197
  • Aug 31, 2025 2:15pm Aug 31, 2025 2:15pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} This is the main reason I don't like using futures prop firms. I do day trade and do some scalping with foreign currencies but I like the option of swing trading or just the ability to hold overnight.
Do none of the futures props allow to hold positions overnight?

I wouldn't say I'm not a day trader. So far, I've closed 99% of my trades before the end of the day, but I've also noticed that some of these trades could have generated 10-20x the profit if I'd held them for even a few days longer. I also don't really see the frequently mentioned risk as significantly increased. I always set a stop loss, and in principle, can/should my risk be limited/managed that way? Yes, there are these black swan events where such a stop might no longer work as expected, but honestly, how often does that happen? And how many long-time, successful traders who have operated this way for decades, holding positions for long periods, have gone bankrupt because of something like that, compared to day traders who have sealed their fate every day by over-leveraging and constantly opening and closing short trades by the end of the day.

Well, here's what AI says:

Quote
Trading overnight isn't inherently riskier than day trading; in fact, it can capture potential market gains from overnight drift and allow for larger price movements. However, both strategies have unique risks, with overnight trading posing risks from price gaps, lower liquidity, and news events, while day trading risks include higher transaction costs, stress, and amplified losses from leverage on short-term, unpredictable movements. The perception of risk depends on a trader's experience, strategy, and risk management, not simply the time frame...
  • #1,198
  • Aug 31, 2025 2:19pm Aug 31, 2025 2:19pm
Quoting Noisy
{quote} Do none of the futures props allow to hold positions overnight? I wouldn't say I'm not a day trader. So far, I've closed 99% of my trades before the end of the day, but I've also noticed that some of these trades could have generated 10-20x the profit if I'd held them for even a few days longer. I also don't really see the frequently mentioned risk as significantly increased. I always set a stop loss, and in principle, can/should my risk be limited/managed that way? Yes, there are these black swan events where such a stop might no longer...
All of the ones I've used require you to close all positions at the specified end of day time
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #1,199
  • Aug 31, 2025 2:43pm Aug 31, 2025 2:43pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} This is the main reason I don't like using futures prop firms. I do day trade and do some scalping with foreign currencies but I like the option of swing trading or just the ability to hold overnight.
They could also implement auto-liquidation for open trades that hit their drawdown limits and reaching end of the day time. Problems solved.

Probably more to do again with that they don’t want traders to do well…
  • #1,200
  • Aug 31, 2025 6:41pm Aug 31, 2025 6:41pm
Hello! I'm still new to the world of prop firms, but I believe both THE5% and FTMO are the best, and now that they've entered the US market, this is only proving even stronger. Between the two, I'd go with THE5% because of its very aggressive scaling plan, which allows good traders to leverage consistently.
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