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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

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  • #49,161
  • Edited 7:23am Jun 2, 2025 7:12am | Edited 7:23am
Quoting navk
{quote} ok do it. 20 pips a day. If you want to trade 0.01 lot size or 0.1 lot size for 500 account entirely depends on trading system you and the ability / fear you have. Why would one blows account ? 1) Either taking excessive risk without proper pip value calculation, ADR etc. 2) Why some one makes very small money ? Fear 3) Why some one makes good money ? You know what I mean.
Why does someone make very little money?
Because they don't have enough capital (assuming a real account), so they have to bet out of necessity with a very large risk.

Why does someone make good money?
Because they have enough capital and can bet freely with only a small risk.

Actually, neither is correct. What’s true is the absence of any system or method that can be reliably depended on in the long term with clear win statistics.

Whether 20 or 30 pips is "correct" depends on the system being used.

Fear and greed are both human emotions — it's hard to define their exact limits , but when we talk about risk percentage, 4% is obviously more than 1%.
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  • #49,162
  • Jun 2, 2025 7:18am Jun 2, 2025 7:18am
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} Why does someone make very little money? Because they don't have enough capital (assuming a real account), so they have to bet out of necessity with a very large risk. Why does someone make good money? Because they have enough capital and can bet freely with only a small risk. Whether 20 or 30 pips is "correct" depends on the system being used. Fear and greed are both human emotions — it's hard to define their exact limits, but when we talk about risk percentage, 4% is obviously more than 1%.
Fear and greed, this is part of trading system.

Emotions part of trading system.

Technicals ( the most important thing for 20 pips ) forms 80 % of the system.

Rest is as i said, risk taking ability, and appetite.

Whether you do 0.01 lot or 0.1 lot or 1 lot.
Intraday only.
  • #49,163
  • Jun 2, 2025 7:30am Jun 2, 2025 7:30am
Quoting Takisd
There are a few standardized broker algos that are entering the space now via some tech providers. Those algos basically tell the broker if the customer has edge or not in an a-book scenario. Most people who are buying failing buying passing payout failing buying failing etc will never be considered successful traders in these algos. Some of the companies are paying and removing, some are just removing others are using it to stop repurchases. There is another tech vendor soliciting props now who has reverse engineered a lot of the cheating strategies...
There's been reports of traders working together to hedge across different prop firms. PipFarm did an undercover investigation and found a group of about 800 traders doing this. I guess their strategy was to have a lot of prop firm accounts and take opposite trades so they could make profits no matter which way the market moved.

https://www.tradingview.com/news/fin...ith-arbitrage/
  • #49,164
  • Jun 2, 2025 8:08am Jun 2, 2025 8:08am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} "IMO, Prop trading is basically for people who do not have sufficient capital to invest." That is stating the obvious and many will agree with you. Thay also think they have $25k or more to trade with for $50 etc when in reality the real amount they have to trade with is the stipulated daily loss limit. But a lot of these guys are gamblers, stupid or merely naive. Interesting thread though for lessons in human frailty.
I've long been able to fund my own trading. However, about 12 to 18 months ago I started trading with two prop firms and it had nothing to do with having personal risk capital. It had to do with helping me overcome a psychological block I've had to increasing my trade size with my own capital. I still have and trade a self-funded account. I have one prop account left, and it will probably be my last (though I retain the right to change my mind lol).

Trading with prop firm money (and I speak as someone who has taken multiple payouts from funded prop accounts) is that it allows the trader both the experience of having skin in the game (the potential payouts are very real) as well as taking off the pressure of losing one's own hard-earned income to the markets.
Life itself is a privilege, but to live life to the fullest is a choice
  • #49,165
  • Jun 2, 2025 9:24am Jun 2, 2025 9:24am
Quoting vidvad
{quote} I've long been able to fund my own trading. However, about 12 to 18 months ago I started trading with two prop firms and it had nothing to do with having personal risk capital. It had to do with helping me overcome a psychological block I've had to increasing my trade size with my own capital. I still have and trade a self-funded account. I have one prop account left, and it will probably be my last (though I retain the right to change my mind lol). Trading with prop firm money (and I speak as someone who has taken multiple payouts from...
True but your trading capital is still the draw down limit. In simple terms you cannot risk the prop firms $50k or whatever but many fail to see that.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #49,166
  • Jun 2, 2025 9:33am Jun 2, 2025 9:33am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} True but your trading capital is still the draw down limit. In simple terms you cannot risk the prop firms $50k or whatever but many fail to see that.
Right, it's the actual DD that is the size of the account, but the leverage of the "fake" balance. In futures, in a typical 50K, you have the buying power of 50K with a loss limit of $2,500........a very simple recipe for failure.
In forex, in a typical 100K, you have 100:1 on 100K, but can only lose 10K.....and if you do pass, don't you dare use that same leverage in the funded account as you did in the eval......once you pass, it is considered gambling, but use it all you want in the eval to fail quicker..
Now, of course, there is the small % of us intelligent folks that understand your trading should all be based on your max loss as that is your actual account size......but, unfortunately, we are the minority.
  • #49,167
  • Jun 2, 2025 9:33am Jun 2, 2025 9:33am
Quoting Takisd
There are a few standardized broker algos that are entering the space now via some tech providers. Those algos basically tell the broker if the customer has edge or not in an a-book scenario. Most people who are buying failing buying passing payout failing buying failing etc will never be considered successful traders in these algos. Some of the companies are paying and removing, some are just removing others are using it to stop repurchases. There is another tech vendor soliciting props now who has reverse engineered a lot of the cheating strategies...
this is good for the industry, who is not cheating and not gambling and can make profits dont need to worry
  • #49,168
  • Jun 2, 2025 9:38am Jun 2, 2025 9:38am
Quoting Novazor
{quote} this is good for the industry, who is not cheating and not gambling and can make profits dont need to worry
it will kill revenues dead but at least the remains will be profitable. Over 50% of props revenue is from cheating behavior now
  • #49,169
  • Edited 10:24am Jun 2, 2025 9:48am | Edited 10:24am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Right, it's the actual DD that is the size of the account, but the leverage of the "fake" balance. In futures, in a typical 50K, you have the buying power of 50K with a loss limit of $2,500........a very simple recipe for failure. In forex, in a typical 100K, you have 100:1 on 100K, but can only lose 10K.....and if you do pass, don't you dare use that same leverage in the funded account as you did in the eval......once you pass, it is considered gambling, but use it all you want in the eval to fail quicker.. Now, of course, there is the...
Did you ever have a chance to see volatility and ADR in following :

1) Currency pairs ( GU, EU, AU )
2) Commodity pairs ( Gold )
3) Indices ( s & p 500, us100, us30 etc )

In currency pairs, the ADR and volatility is less when compared to others.

This makes currency pair trading better and easier than others.

There has been days gold moved 125 dollars and above ( 1250 pips and above ), there has been days the Indices moved more than gold.

Assume one trade futures in this pair. With 6k max loss ( for 450 dollar fee ) it could eat away the daily max loss so easily.

If one trades GU for example, the max 10 day ADR as of now shows 86 pips.

If i open 0.1 lot in GU, approximately in the direction of trend ( entry point not necessarily to be accurate ) one will end up capturing 20 pips without blowing the account.

In short :

Blowing 150k futures account can happen easily ( 450 fee )
Blowing 500 dollar account is next to impossible , but still i can manage to get 20 pips. ( with 0.1 lot )
Intraday only.
  • #49,170
  • Jun 2, 2025 9:53am Jun 2, 2025 9:53am
TIcktickdeal i am banned by the way from purchasing ...

Not sure about the payouts out of the loop....
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #49,171
  • Jun 2, 2025 9:55am Jun 2, 2025 9:55am
Quoting montygoldy
TIcktickdeal i am banned by the way from purchasing ... Not sure about the payouts out of the loop.... {image}
They allowed me to purchase more evals inspite of the fact that I filed credit card complaint. lol

They want more money from me.
Intraday only.
  • #49,172
  • Jun 2, 2025 10:50am Jun 2, 2025 10:50am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} it will kill revenues dead but at least the remains will be profitable. Over 50% of props revenue is from cheating behavior now
yes most firms will go banmkrupt too much anyways but the big and reliable ones will survive because normal traders will still buy from them, the smaller ones i believe have business becaause of cheaters want as much prop firms to hedge
  • #49,173
  • Jun 2, 2025 11:33am Jun 2, 2025 11:33am
Quoting navk
{quote} Did you ever have a chance to see volatility and ADR in following : 1) Currency pairs ( GU, EU, AU ) 2) Commodity pairs ( Gold ) 3) Indices ( s & p 500, us100, us30 etc ) In currency pairs, the ADR and volatility is less when compared to others. This makes currency pair trading better and easier than others. There has been days gold moved 125 dollars and above ( 1250 pips and above ), there has been days the Indices moved more than gold. Assume one trade futures in this pair. With 6k max loss ( for 450 dollar fee ) it could eat away the...
Well gold and the indices last 10 ADR are much smaller as well. Actually, the day gold moved $125, GBPUSD did 200 pips.
Yes, though, currencies are less volitile than gold and the indices......you can even break in down further, NAS is more volitile than DOW or S&P....cross currency pairs such as AUDCAD, EURGBP are less volatile than JPY crosses.
I only trade ES and YM with the props and only micros.
  • #49,174
  • Jun 2, 2025 11:51am Jun 2, 2025 11:51am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Well gold and the indices last 10 ADR are much smaller as well. Actually, the day gold moved $125, GBPUSD did 200 pips. Yes, though, currencies are less volitile than gold and the indices......you can even break in down further, NAS is more volitile than DOW or S&P....cross currency pairs such as AUDCAD, EURGBP are less volatile than JPY crosses. I only trade ES and YM with the props and only micros.
See this ADR for gold and GU.

Gold range today is 795 pips against 10 day ADR approx 600 pips.

GU range today is 111 pips against 10 day ADR 86 pips.

The small range ADR in GU... makes a trader a sound sleep.

Still can accumulate required pips.

In this 111 pips range today, I can open long in LO and take 20 pips.
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Intraday only.
  • #49,175
  • Jun 2, 2025 11:58am Jun 2, 2025 11:58am
Quoting Takisd
I have no proof, but I believe FTMO have deployed such types of system and done a cleanse.
I doubt FTMO are that profitable these days without taking some drastic action.

The two-step static is the most abused / targeted by cheaters.

A couple of years ago the CEO and CTO of FTMO said 80% of their rev comes from failed evaluations. At the time I didn't think too much of this, but to think 20% comes from non-evaluation failures (whatever it is), that's probably keeping their model working. Assuming it's similar / the same as late 2023.
  • #49,176
  • Jun 2, 2025 1:34pm Jun 2, 2025 1:34pm
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}I doubt FTMO are that profitable these days without taking some drastic action. The two-step static is the most abused / targeted by cheaters. A couple of years ago the CEO and CTO of FTMO said 80% of their rev comes from failed evaluations. At the time I didn't think too much of this, but to think 20% comes from non-evaluation failures (whatever it is), that's probably keeping their model working. Assuming it's similar / the same as late 2023.
i doubt it was true at the time and is likely not true now. I don't doubt that they are sending some flow on but 20% is a very high figure considering the statistics.
  • #49,177
  • Jun 2, 2025 2:21pm Jun 2, 2025 2:21pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} i doubt it was true at the time and is likely not true now. I don't doubt that they are sending some flow on but 20% is a very high figure considering the statistics.
I interpreted 'revenue' it more widely than just live flow. I understand they have an extensive property / investment portfolio so assumed it included that rather than sending individuals to / hedging flow in the the real market.
  • #49,178
  • Jun 2, 2025 3:55pm Jun 2, 2025 3:55pm
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}I interpreted 'revenue' it more widely than just live flow. I understand they have an extensive property / investment portfolio so assumed it included that rather than sending individuals to / hedging flow in the the real market.
This could explain it but imagine using hotel cash flow to pay prop trader profits.... it would be wiser to just close the prop.
  • #49,179
  • Edited 8:23pm Jun 2, 2025 5:30pm | Edited 8:23pm
Market open, One setup DONE for the day....

ZERO DRAWDOWN... These are my dream trades......

Just need 1x1500$ day on top1futures to pull the trigger for 3500$ payout hoping for tomorrow

If i get the payout then will use the whole payout to activate 20x50k apex (2800$ investment) I passed last week....

REMEMBER EVERYONE PAYOUTS FUND FURTHER EVALS>>>>
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