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  • #49,141
  • Jun 1, 2025 8:33pm Jun 1, 2025 8:33pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} so $20/day starting with $500...it's 4% per day, I did it earlier with the 5K start and only earning $100......2% per day....... with 4% per day, I'm in the billions by month 21....you do realize 4% daily compounded doubles your account every month? Of course, there is the liquidity issue maybe a year in.....
well, let me ask you, are we not capable to earn 20 pips a day in a 80/100 ADR with GBPUSD ?

Forget lot size...

For you it may be 0.01 lot for 500 account. By trading 0.01 lot you can sleep for a whole month with out looking at chart. 5000 pips is needed to blow your 500 account.

For me, if i trade, 0.1 lot, i can sleep freely 1 night without blowing account. ( 500 pips )

This is risk management.

But...

Let us talk about trading system.

If one does not have a trading system which can not give 20 pips a day, we are looking into two different road path.

I can work / trade for 12 to 14 hrs a day
Intraday only.
  • #49,142
  • Jun 1, 2025 8:36pm Jun 1, 2025 8:36pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} so $20/day starting with $500...it's 4% per day, I did it earlier with the 5K start and only earning $100......2% per day....... with 4% per day, I'm in the billions by month 21....you do realize 4% daily compounded doubles your account every month? Of course, there is the liquidity issue maybe a year in.....
It also depends on if you’re compounding by percentage or by a fixed amount. So, if you’re trading 0.10 per trade for every 5K, you’d need to wait until account reaches 5K before increasing lot size. It’s also possible to add smaller amounts, like 0.01 or 0.11, when the account reaches 5500 and so on.
  • #49,143
  • Jun 1, 2025 8:42pm Jun 1, 2025 8:42pm
Quoting navk
{quote} well, let me ask you, are we not capable to earn 20 pips a day in a 80/100 ADR with GBPUSD ? Forget lot size... For you it may be 0.01 lot for 500 account. By trading 0.01 lot you can sleep for a whole month with out looking at chart. 5000 pips is needed to blow your 500 account. For me, if i trade, 0.1 lot, i can sleep freely 1 night without blowing account. ( 500 pips ) This is risk management. But... Let us talk about trading system. If one does not have a trading system which can not give 20 pips a day, we are looking into two different...
It's not the 20 pips per day....it's the fact that even 0.1 is FAR TOO LARGE for a $500 account......any risk that is aiming for 4% profit per day...now if you go 0.01, you're talking 0.4% per day. Either way, at some point, you will be capped on the size you can trade.
My point is if 20 pips per day can make 4% daily profit......we would be hearing hundreds of thousands rags to riches of success stories.....once again, it looks great on paper.
  • #49,144
  • Jun 1, 2025 8:48pm Jun 1, 2025 8:48pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It's not the 20 pips per day....it's the fact that even 0.1 is FAR TOO LARGE for a $500 account......any risk that is aiming for 4% profit per day...now if you go 0.01, you're talking 0.4% per day. Either way, at some point, you will be capped on the size you can trade. My point is if 20 pips per day can make 4% daily profit......we would be hearing hundreds of thousands rags to riches of success stories.....once again, it looks great on paper.
As i said.. forget the % one makes.

Just trade the system ( 20 pips sytem in gbpusd) on a daily basis. If you are ultra conservative you make 0.4% per day, still you make 8 % per month, which is very good money at the end of month.

Reemember, you can sleep for 1 month with 0.01 lot size. ( ultra conservative )
I can trade and sleep easily for 1 night freely by trading 0.1 lot size. ( it is not aggressive, I am calculative but.. )

For a person to make money, the fear must go.
Intraday only.
  • #49,145
  • Jun 1, 2025 8:56pm Jun 1, 2025 8:56pm
Quoting navk
with 20 pips per day and 0.1 lot in 500 account ?? Are you sure ? Pl do recalculate I repeat. 500 = 0.1 lot 1000 = 0.2 lot 1500 =0.3 lot. ................. ...........
-Based on pip's comment...

5k at 2% for 252 days (trading days in a year), equates to 734,874 and some change.
5k at 4% for 252 days equates to 98M+.

If you take it to two years, that 4% becomes 1.9T+.

That being said, profiting 2% to 4% daily is not the same as compounding 2% to 4% daily. Aside from having bills to pay, most traders do not compound that far because scaling becomes very difficult-to-impossible and also because they usually take heavy losses and/or blow the account before reaching any meaningful milestone. Consistently compounding 2-4% daily over any significant stretch of time is fantasy; the market limitations eventually make it impossible to scale that far out.
  • #49,146
  • Jun 1, 2025 9:02pm Jun 1, 2025 9:02pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Based on pip's comment... 5k at 2% for 252 days (trading days in a year), equates to 734,874 and some change. 5k at 4% for 252 days equates to 98M+. If you take it to two years, that 4% becomes 1.9T+. That being said, profiting 2% to 4% daily is not the same as compounding 2% to 4% daily. Aside from having bills to pay, most traders do not compound that far because scaling becomes very difficult-to-impossible and also because they usually take heavy losses and/or blow the account before reaching any meaningful milestone. Consistently compounding...
yes, I know, Emotion will set in.
But let us stop when the account reaches 1 M.

Reduce the lot size accordingly when capital grows,

How about that ?

One can buy a home in Canada /USA after a year !!

My point is... earn 20 pips regularly, consistently without blowing account.

You make 200k or 500k or 1 M... all depends on risk appetite. and ability
Intraday only.
  • #49,147
  • Edited 9:23pm Jun 1, 2025 9:12pm | Edited 9:23pm
Quoting navk
{quote} yes, I know, Emotion will set in. But let us stop when the account reaches 1 M. Reduce the lot size accordingly when capital grows, How about that ? One can buy a home in Canada /USA after a year !! My point is... earn 20 pips regularly, consistently without blowing account. You make 200k or 500k or 1 M... all depends on risk appetite. and ability
This is a simple calculator to convert pips into percentage risk from Hanover, as long as we know the pip value — for example, GBP/USD is $10 per pip (if the account is in USD). If I'm currently using 1/3 of the ADR (21), which is 32 pips, then the daily risk is 32 pips. Just convert that into the percentage you want to risk.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSD.iM15.png Size: 8 KB
Attached File(s)
File Type: xls Risk model calculator.xls   28 KB | 186 downloads
File Type: tpl aDtri.tpl   26 KB | 169 downloads
File Type: ex4 PairsAll_ATR_rm2.2.ex4   42 KB | 135 downloads
fooled by randomness in art
Meditation All Time Return: 8.9%
  • #49,148
  • Jun 1, 2025 9:35pm Jun 1, 2025 9:35pm
Quoting navk
But let us stop when the account reaches 1 M. Reduce the lot size accordingly when capital grows, How about that ?
-Absolutely.
  • #49,149
  • Jun 1, 2025 9:54pm Jun 1, 2025 9:54pm
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} I have to be cautious with a very tight stop loss—less than 1/3 of the ADR (21)—like the way I do it, especially if I don't know the win rate of a system (statistics). The ability to adapt changes over time depending on market conditions—at least that's what I believe—so there's no guarantee that past performance can be repeated. I only calculate risk based on percentage (converted from pips), and now I know your preference is 4% per trade, not 0.5%, while the Kelly Criterion recommends 3% for forex. It could be much higher if the average...
ok do it.

20 pips a day.

If you want to trade 0.01 lot size or 0.1 lot size for 500 account entirely depends on trading system you and the ability / fear you have.

Why would one blows account ?

1) Either taking excessive risk without proper pip value calculation, ADR etc.

2) Why some one makes very small money ? Fear

3) Why some one makes good money ? You know what I mean.
Intraday only.
  • #49,150
  • Jun 1, 2025 10:08pm Jun 1, 2025 10:08pm
Another new futures firm.

propshoptrader

Currently 90%-off promo on their website.

20 accounts.
DCA, microscalping, news, bots and copy trading are allowed (have not personally verified).
Evaluation and STF accounts offered.

If this firm gains any traction, then they will likely put a lot of pressure on Apex to improve or fold.

Proceed with caution.
  • #49,151
  • Jun 2, 2025 2:30am Jun 2, 2025 2:30am
Quoting navk
{quote} Monty, A honest question to you and every one of us who are trading prop firms. 1) You spent 129k CAD for a return of around 300k CAD in 2024 according to your statement. 2) As you know, prop firm trading payouts.. lots of if and but including payout cheating, banning, rules which are difficult to adhere etc 3) You have still managed to take out around 300 k which is good. But is it really good ? 4) Coniser a private mt4/mt5 account with 130k deposit 5) With the kind of bold approach you have and trading skills you have, you could have amassed...
"IMO, Prop trading is basically for people who do not have sufficient capital to invest."
That is stating the obvious and many will agree with you. Thay also think they have $25k or more to trade with for $50 etc when in reality the real amount they have to trade with is the stipulated daily loss limit. But a lot of these guys are gamblers, stupid or merely naive.
Interesting thread though for lessons in human frailty.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #49,152
  • Jun 2, 2025 2:45am Jun 2, 2025 2:45am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} "IMO, Prop trading is basically for people who do not have sufficient capital to invest." That is stating the obvious and many will agree with you. Thay also think they have $25k or more to trade with for $50 etc when in reality the real amount they have to trade with is the stipulated daily loss limit. But a lot of these guys are gamblers, stupid or merely naive. Interesting thread though for lessons in human frailty.
One advantage of prop firms is the size of the account and the set drawdown limits, which let’s you have a larger DD. So a 1000:1 IC Markets isn’t really the same as a 100:1 FTMO. Even though you can open the same number of trades, let’s say 0.10 per trade for 200 trades, after the 2K margin requirement, the IC Markets won't let you deal with a 5K DD without hitting margin call.
  • #49,153
  • Jun 2, 2025 2:57am Jun 2, 2025 2:57am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} I think you have to watch that entire 18m video. Once Phase 1 is completed then all fees paid to date are to be refunded. There are no fees paid for phase two. Phase two you’re placed within a group and assessed accordingly for talent. On a daily basis. Apparently it’s not a lone wolf environment, rather talent developed for long term growth. Most yolo traders aren’t even going to make it this far, or anyone thinking it can be “gamed.”
the only thing they would be able to say is I don’t have edge. Then to some how train my risk to fit into an edge format or tell me to buzz off. I have run my “gaming” model in various ootb risk algos all of them say to b book yet here I am taking payouts and passing accounts first go. Trailing dd is the only thing to messes it up.
  • #49,154
  • Jun 2, 2025 6:21am Jun 2, 2025 6:21am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} "IMO, Prop trading is basically for people who do not have sufficient capital to invest." That is stating the obvious and many will agree with you. Thay also think they have $25k or more to trade with for $50 etc when in reality the real amount they have to trade with is the stipulated daily loss limit. But a lot of these guys are gamblers, stupid or merely naive. Interesting thread though for lessons in human frailty.
A 500 $ is what is needed as capital, who knows to trade for 20 pips a day, rest will be history, frankly.
Intraday only.
  • #49,155
  • Jun 2, 2025 6:26am Jun 2, 2025 6:26am
Quoting navk
{quote} A 500 $ is what is needed as capital, who knows to trade for 20 pips a day, rest will be history, frankly.
If you can guarantee yourself 20 pips per day, everyday....why $500?
Throw 100K in and trade a standard lot and make 2k per day.
I've got lost into what the actual conversation started as at this point.
  • #49,156
  • Jun 2, 2025 6:46am Jun 2, 2025 6:46am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I already calculated it for you....your 5K will be $43 million in 2 years. Let us know when you hit it. It is simply not reality.
Smile! He has been on this kind of illusion for over a decade now and he hasn't make $100,000 yet not to talk of a million. The strategy might survive and look profitable in side way market condition but it will fail miserably in other market conditions.

If trading is this simple, many of us would been on beautiful island enjoying our live by now
  • #49,157
  • Jun 2, 2025 6:52am Jun 2, 2025 6:52am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} If you can guarantee yourself 20 pips per day, everyday....why $500? Throw 100K in and trade a standard lot and make 2k per day. I've got lost into what the actual conversation started as at this point.
No, only 500 will be my capital.

This is better because we keep paying for evaluations 16....17....40...50...100....450 like that.

If we can not make 20 pips a day safely, securely without blowing account, sorry.
Intraday only.
  • #49,158
  • Jun 2, 2025 6:59am Jun 2, 2025 6:59am
Quoting navk
{quote} This is better because we keep paying for evaluations 16....17....40...50...100....450 like that. .
If you keep paying for evaluation doesn't it proof that you cannot consistently make 20pips a day?
Just buy 1 evaluation and keep making 20 pips a day you have better leverage than your $500.

OK don't tell me how you get con by some cheapo prop firms, go with Apex, MFFU they still paying
  • #49,159
  • Jun 2, 2025 7:02am Jun 2, 2025 7:02am
Quoting failinforex
{quote} If you keep paying for evaluation doesn't it proof that you cannot consistently make 20pips a day? Just buy 1 evaluation and keep making 20 pips a day you have better leverage than your $500. OK don't tell me how you get con by some cheapo prop firms, go with Apex, MFFU they still paying
Many firms, even after keep on paying, they do not pay us back.

I have atleast experience from two firms.

I have been ditched of 5 x 50k funded accounts, and 6000 + funds from one firm.

I have been ditched of 7530 from yet another firm.

I heard enuff stories of apex.

One of my best friend has said that FTMO did not pay him. It is his own statement. After that, he disappeared from this thread and FTMO. THat is another story
Intraday only.
  • #49,160
  • Jun 2, 2025 7:12am Jun 2, 2025 7:12am
There are a few standardized broker algos that are entering the space now via some tech providers. Those algos basically tell the broker if the customer has edge or not in an a-book scenario. Most people who are buying failing buying passing payout failing buying failing etc will never be considered successful traders in these algos. Some of the companies are paying and removing, some are just removing others are using it to stop repurchases.

There is another tech vendor soliciting props now who has reverse engineered a lot of the cheating strategies as well and they are hooked up to a few big props and its resulting in payout denials and bans without "proof", even though they know for sure the person is cheating.

Whats happening is that its slowly evolving into less of a free for all and as a result a lot of people who aren't profitable on their own capital are being locked out of props and the tantrums that follow then occur.

I have no proof, but I believe FTMO have deployed such types of system and done a cleanse.
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