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trading systems vs account size

  • #21
  • Aug 5, 2007 6:11pm Aug 5, 2007 6:11pm
Quoting SeekingLight
I'm gonna say nah, one thing all INDICATOR based systems have in common is that none work in all market conditions.

Price will be price in all market conditions. No setup - no trade

As simple as that.
Fair comment
  • #22
  • Aug 5, 2007 6:18pm Aug 5, 2007 6:18pm
[quote=iandekoker;1524130]
Quoting Pip Rage
A $5000 bank is perfectly adequate for an experienced scalper using one minute candles and 10 pip stops during sessional openings.

Ignorance is the greatest obstacle facing any trader.
The smallest edge can be turned into a healthy living with appropriate trade management and position-sizing.


Oh my friend i have this feeling you will lose more than one account in future. Warren Buffet doesn't use 1minute candles to scalp. That is a 100% guarentee that you WILL loose you account. But like you say ignorance is the greatest obstacle
Warren Buffet doesn't use 1 minute candles but thousands of other successful traders do. They don't require big banks but they do require experience and savy.
BTW one minute candles and retail currency markets weren't available when warren started out.
Keep the sweeping generalizations coming. They make for poor advice but hilarious reading.
  • #23
  • Aug 5, 2007 7:05pm Aug 5, 2007 7:05pm
I am going to have to somewhat disagree with you. It can be done with proper money management, the right mindset, consistency, and of course the power of compounding.

with a $10,000 account:

Starting lot size .3:

With a starting capital of $10,000.00, a weekly rate of return of 2.5%, and a winning expectancy of 65%, over a period of 208 weeks:

The reward:risk ratio will be 1.54:1, and the weekly (net total) goal will be 83 pips

After two years the capital will be ~ $130,000,
After three years the capital will be ~ $470,000
And after four years 1.7 million.

Of course this does not take into account taxes, but if all winnings were left in the account (or a small monthly withdrawal after two years) those would be the results.

I believe it is possible, but I also agree with you that 95% of people won't stick around for 4 years because of such small returns for the first two years, lack of consistency, simply giving up, or a combination of all of the above.

I think being able to consistently return 2.5% + per week may difficult for many people as well. Like you said someone will have a "system" for 5 months with 8 different indicators that they soon find out doesn't work too well. I'm more of a fan of pure price action and patterns, support and resistance, etc, all on higher timeframes, which I've found a lot better than the systems you've described.

And, like someone else said, it can depend a lot on your lifestyle. If you can stick it out and live off $300 - 500 a week for the first couple years (A lot of you are married with families, simply not possible), You can leave most or all of the money in your trading account. I can live well and pay all my the bills and still put in an extra $1,500 into my account a month, not a ton but I am only 21.
  • #24
  • Aug 5, 2007 9:32pm Aug 5, 2007 9:32pm
Quoting iandekoker
My friend i hate to burst to bubble, but you will never make a living out of forex trading a mini account. In time you will agree with me.
You seem to think you can make a living with 30-50k, but not with a mini account? You realize, of course, that you can trade more than one pair and more than one lot at a time. Mini accounts give you much more flexibility. You can trade 10 or 20 or 30 lots on a mini. No? If you are trading several pairs and using advanced MM strategies--scaling in and out of trades with multiple entries and TPs--a mini account is a good way to go, even with 30-50k.

Can't make a living with a mini account? Talk to my friend Gwan (on this forum) from Indonesia and ask how much you need to live there. Or in many other parts of the world. Of course as a currency trader you already know that a dollar's buying power depends on where you live. And that this forum is represented by people from all over the world.

My point? We all have our own needs, goals, methods, situations, etc. and can't be painted with the same brush.
  • #25
  • Edited 10:55pm Aug 5, 2007 10:48pm | Edited 10:55pm
Quoting iandekoker
I often read the trading system section to see with what weird and wonderful "trading systems" people have come up with. Most of the time it is pure entertainment for me. Especially if I see these cluttered screens and indicators from god knows where and that only god himself can understand. I have found the following trend occuring in almost all of the trading systems posted on this forum.

John Doe starts off by saying that he has developed a profitable trading system based on XYZ doing ABC.

After about 2-3 months and a lot of questions from a few disciples that decided to follow John Doe's trading system he then modifies his trading system or as he puts it "improve it for better entry positions and/or more pips". So you begin to get a John Doe version 1......and later a version 2...and later a version 3.....and later on everyone is confused.... including John Doe himself.

After about 3-6 months you will find John Doe roaming the pages of Pete's new trading system. And after a while Pete's new system goes thru the exact same stages as John Doe's system. And after 3-6 months you will find Pete roaming the pages of Jimmy's new trading system. And so the story continues......

So what is the lesson to be learned here? A trading system is a trading system. They are all the same. The problem is not the trading system. The problem is the size of your forex account. It's the size of your forex account that is the BIGGEST OBSTACLE in you way

if you have a $1 - $10 000 forex trading account you ONLY do forex for the fun of it and as a hobby. But you will NEVER make a living out of forex. Cause if you trade standard lots ($10 per pip) then you have only 1000 pips to manouvre with. And believe you me the JPY will take you out within a few days time. If you trade mini lots ($1 per pip or smaller) then it will take you ages to make enough money to live off

Only if you have a $30 000 - $50 000 plus forex account will you stand a chance of making a living out of forex. But you will have to choose your trades very carefully.

Only if you have a $100 000 - $1 000 000 forex account will you be one of the 5% that makes a living trading forex IF you only trade standard lot ($10 per pip). Cause then ONLY can you weather the storm of the market turning against you while still having enough capital to continue trading.

Remember....there is a reason why forex brokers offer you the oppertunity to open a mini account of $250 -$10 000 to trade an unpredictable market. Cause they know the odds are heavily against you. Nowhere else will you find a way of turning $250 into millions. Forex is no exception. There are no short cuts in life. It's like taking on the mighty Indian Ocean in only a small row boat. You stand no chance. If you wanna venture out to sea first find yourself a big enough ship that can weather the storms of the ocean.
Nicely thought out, though it appears you stepped on the toes of the micro, demo and mini crowd.....and dare I say, the undercapitalized.

While some in Idonesia can live off a well funded and managed mini account, I am hard pressed to believe that traders in the US, UK, EU, NZ, AUS, JPY and a few others would be able to ONLY trade for a living with less than 5000K usd..... $25k is the bare minimum to begin to grow an account to even think about withdrawing ( net income ), albeit small, those with F/T employment, needing "perks"...health, dental, and the such.....are in essence supplamenting ( spell check here ) incomes. Those using micros and demo accounts are learning ( though I am not a fan of demo accounts ) Demos are not REAL market conditions. Yes we have to start somewhere.

Just wanted to say that I could follow your train of thought...Trading is a BUSINESS and CAPITAL is KING....CAPITAL can weather many errors along the way better than any "system" ever will. As in Business, Manging Money is equally important. And, trading losses are not LOSSES, they are the cost of doing business.....similar to a delivery truck breaking down/ blowing an engine enroute to a customer.....Shit Happens.....get it fixed and move on.

I can say this with utmost experience and conviction....it is easier to trade 1mil ( 10 lots ) for 10-15 pips, ( $82usd to $100 usd / pip ) than to trade minis at $1-$5 lot needing to make 200-300 pips. In the same week.

Anybody caring to read this, ask yourself, can you make 10-15 pips per week?? Capital is the answer.....along with knowing what the hell you are doing....hope that went without saying at this point.

Now for those trading a mini, with some nice capital in reserve.....learn well, and put that capital to work for you. Those who don't, keep saving and cutting back on expenses, Hell get a Loan...Loans are part of business also.....BTW, who the Hell needs retirement from the Gov't....we can all trade til we die....for the most part. And in those countries that offer these "perks", they aren't cheap....you all got some hellish taxes!! Though it should make "trading" a bit easier to go it alone....here in the States....I have to buy my Insurance. ( always open to corrections and learning )


Enough rambling.....others write thoughts better than I

Good Luck all
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
  • #26
  • Aug 6, 2007 12:06am Aug 6, 2007 12:06am
Quoting FxJarhead

While some in Idonesia can live off a well funded and managed mini account, I am hard pressed to believe that traders in the US, UK, EU, NZ, AUS, JPY and a few others would be able to ONLY trade for a living with less than 5000K usd..... $25k is the bare minimum to begin to grow an account to even think about withdrawing ( net income ), albeit small, those with F/T employment, needing "perks"...health, dental, and the such.....are in essence supplamenting ( spell check here ) incomes. Those using micros and demo accounts are learning ( though I am not a fan of demo accounts ) Demos are not REAL market conditions. Yes we have to start somewhere.



Good Luck all

FX, you make good points. Capital IS King. The more capital you have, the less you have to strive for those high percentages each month.

My point is this:

If you might be able to make a living from 30-50k as iandekoker acknowledges (I agree it is unlikely in the U.S.), then why can't it be done in a mini account with the same capital? Isn't a 10 lot mini position the same as a single standard lot? I'm not talking about making a living from a 5k account or even a 30 k account. I'm saying you can get the same results, if not better from a mini account than a standard account if they are funded equally. The mini has more flexibility.
Say you have a 30k standard account and you are ready to take a trade. You figure your risk to reward and your leverage and your MM rules allow you to trade 2.4 standard lots. But your standard account only allows you to trade either two lots or three and nothing in between.. Two lots doesn't use all the capital you're allowed and three will overextend your MM rules.
Now, the same situation with 30k in a mini account. You can buy 20 lots (2 standard) or 30 lots (3 standard) or 24 lots which will be using all the capital your MM allows without overextending.
All that being said, here in the U.S. I wouldn't consider trading for a living with 30-50k. At least not if it was my only capital. I'm sure there are some folks who can and do and I'm not doubting them a bit. But it would be way out of my comfort zone.
  • #27
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:04am Aug 6, 2007 1:04am
I laugh at all the "You are undercapitalized" posts. It is complete and utter bullshit. I am not saying you are going to make a living off a $300 account, but given time and discipline, you can grow it into something.

Using proper money management you also should never break that account.

Anyone learning forex should Demo for a while until they get the basics. After that open a bare minimum account and use correct money management. You may think that is chump change, but when you lose $30 of that $300 you will feel it. It will make you a much better trader. Not only that, its a cheap lesson. You do not need a $30,000 lesson in forex to succeed.
Que
  • #28
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:04am Aug 6, 2007 1:04am
Quoting billflet
FX, you make good points. Capital IS King. The more capital you have, the less you have to strive for those high percentages each month.

My point is this:

If you might be able to make a living from 30-50k as iandekoker acknowledges (I agree it is unlikely in the U.S.), then why can't it be done in a mini account with the same capital? Isn't a 10 lot mini position the same as a single standard lot? I'm not talking about making a living from a 5k account or even a 30 k account. I'm saying you can get the same results, if not better from a mini account than a standard account if they are funded equally. The mini has more flexibility.
Say you have a 30k standard account and you are ready to take a trade. You figure your risk to reward and your leverage and your MM rules allow you to trade 2.4 standard lots. But your standard account only allows you to trade either two lots or three and nothing in between.. Two lots doesn't use all the capital you're allowed and three will overextend your MM rules.
Now, the same situation with 30k in a mini account. You can buy 20 lots (2 standard) or 30 lots (3 standard) or 24 lots which will be using all the capital your MM allows without overextending.
All that being said, here in the U.S. I wouldn't consider trading for a living with 30-50k. At least not if it was my only capital. I'm sure there are some folks who can and do and I'm not doubting them a bit. But it would be way out of my comfort zone.
No doubt, I agree with you on using mini's in that fashion you describe.

Though to get the best spreads and lowest commissions.....example Dukascopy.....250k is smallest "lot" and the spreads are LOW, what is commission now....$20/mil or $25/mil
Now I have to admit, I do like Oanda....very good for a "mini" trader with Capital....plus they pay that commish by the second.....it is a nice bonus when a Long 10 lot trade on any yen cross takes a while to move to TP.
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
  • #29
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:06am Aug 6, 2007 1:06am
To all those traders who believe they can still make lots of money trading mini accounts.

Imagine YOU are the forex broker and you set up your own forex business. You allow me and a few other traders to open a mini forex account ($250-$5000) with you.

If we play smart we can make lots of money off you. We can turn our small investment into big returns.

Why on earth would you as forex broker allow that to happen? Cause it is bad business sense to allow someone to only invest $250-$5000 with you, BUT he can make thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions from you???? Your forex business would go bankrupt in less than a month's time. Cause you only get small change (initial investment and spread) in from investors but you have to pay out big sums of money to them. You as the forex broker now carries all the risk. And as you know any business can carry uncovered risk only for a while. Uncovered risk is what makes businesses to bankrupt.

Brokers only allow you to open mini accounts with them cause that is a no risk guarenteed income for them. 95% of mini accounts get blown. Now that makes good business sense to allow someone to investment a small amount of money in your forex business if the odds are heavily in your favor and heavily against them. All you do is trick them into believing they can take $250-$5000 and turn it into thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions.

Ps....if you still believe you can beat forex with only a mini account then i suggest you withdraw your money ASAP from your forex broker cause there is NO WAY your forex broker can manage this uncovered risk by paying millions of dollars to clients if they all only invest in small $250-$5000 mini accounts. Somewhere along the line your broker is gonna run into cashflow problems and/or the uncovered risk will kill them. But how many reliable forex brokers go bankrupt every week? Hmmmm makes u think doesn't it.....
  • #30
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:08am Aug 6, 2007 1:08am
Quoting Que
I laugh at all the "You are undercapitalized" posts. It is complete and utter bullshit. I am not saying you are going to make a living off a $300 account, but given time and discipline, you can grow it into something.

Using proper money management you also should never break that account.

Anyone learning forex should Demo for a while until they get the basics. After that open a bare minimum account and use correct money management. You may think that is chump change, but when you lose $30 of that $300 you will feel it. It will make you a much better trader. Not only that, its a cheap lesson. You do not need a $30,000 lesson in forex to succeed.
The subject was MAKING A LIVING...not growing a $300 account......Gp out and start your own Biz for $300 and see how far you go....as the poster stated......that is a hobby.....not trading for a living....BIG DIFFERENCE
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
  • #31
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:27am Aug 6, 2007 1:27am
Quoting FxJarhead
The subject was MAKING A LIVING...not growing a $300 account......Gp out and start your own Biz for $300 and see how far you go....as the poster stated......that is a hobby.....not trading for a living....BIG DIFFERENCE
I do not think anyone here believes that they will make 4-5k a month off a $300 account. Maybe they do think that and I am unaware. But you have to start somewhere and I would not quit my job with anything less then $500,000 in my trading account.
Que
  • #32
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:34am Aug 6, 2007 1:34am
Quoting iandekoker
To all those traders who believe they can still make lots of money trading mini accounts.

Imagine YOU are the forex broker and you set up your own forex business. You allow me and a few other traders to open a mini forex account ($250-$5000) with you.

If we play smart we can make lots of money off you. We can turn our small investment into big returns.

Why on earth would you as forex broker allow that to happen? Cause it is bad business sense to allow someone to only invest $250-$5000 with you, BUT he can make thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions from you???? Your forex business would go bankrupt in less than a month's time. Cause you only get small change (initial investment and spread) in from investors but you have to pay out big sums of money to them. You as the forex broker now carries all the risk. And as you know any business can carry uncovered risk only for a while. Uncovered risk is what makes businesses to bankrupt.

Brokers only allow you to open mini accounts with them cause that is a no risk guarenteed income for them. 95% of mini accounts get blown. Now that makes good business sense to allow someone to investment a small amount of money in your forex business if the odds are heavily in your favor and heavily against them. All you do is trick them into believing they can take $250-$5000 and turn it into thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions.

Ps....if you still believe you can beat forex with only a mini account then i suggest you withdraw your money ASAP from your forex broker cause there is NO WAY your forex broker can manage this uncovered risk by paying millions of dollars to clients if they all only invest in small $250-$5000 mini accounts. Somewhere along the line your broker is gonna run into cashflow problems and/or the uncovered risk will kill them. But how many reliable forex brokers go bankrupt every week? Hmmmm makes u think doesn't it.....
Somehow, you believe you are playing Against the Broker......
Que
  • #33
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:39am Aug 6, 2007 1:39am
Quoting Que
I do not think anyone here believes that they will make 4-5k a month off a $300 account. Maybe they do think that and I am unaware. But you have to start somewhere and I would not quit my job with anything less then $500,000 in my trading account.
Starting "somewhere" was covered in an earlier post......though I'd NEVER keep 500k with an OTC spot broker.....I could be wrong, thinking last I heard.....1 million for a bank trading account......correct if mistaken.

And YES, many do believe 300 can go to 1million......may take 30 years.
Though 50k can easily return 4-5k per month/though I'd prefer a better cushion......once a trader KNOWS what they are doing. My self, I don't care if my account reaches 1 million, ever. I take 2 pay checks per month......and put excess into other vehicles.
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
  • #34
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:53am Aug 6, 2007 1:53am
Quoting iandekoker
To all those traders who believe they can still make lots of money trading mini accounts.

Imagine YOU are the forex broker and you set up your own forex business. You allow me and a few other traders to open a mini forex account ($250-$5000) with you.

If we play smart we can make lots of money off you. We can turn our small investment into big returns.

Why on earth would you as forex broker allow that to happen? Cause it is bad business sense to allow someone to only invest $250-$5000 with you, BUT he can make thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions from you???? Your forex business would go bankrupt in less than a month's time. Cause you only get small change (initial investment and spread) in from investors but you have to pay out big sums of money to them. You as the forex broker now carries all the risk. And as you know any business can carry uncovered risk only for a while. Uncovered risk is what makes businesses to bankrupt.

Brokers only allow you to open mini accounts with them cause that is a no risk guarenteed income for them. 95% of mini accounts get blown. Now that makes good business sense to allow someone to investment a small amount of money in your forex business if the odds are heavily in your favor and heavily against them. All you do is trick them into believing they can take $250-$5000 and turn it into thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions.

Ps....if you still believe you can beat forex with only a mini account then i suggest you withdraw your money ASAP from your forex broker cause there is NO WAY your forex broker can manage this uncovered risk by paying millions of dollars to clients if they all only invest in small $250-$5000 mini accounts. Somewhere along the line your broker is gonna run into cashflow problems and/or the uncovered risk will kill them. But how many reliable forex brokers go bankrupt every week? Hmmmm makes u think doesn't it.....
Ahh, I see.
You're a conspiracy theorist. LOL
So you believe that all brokers that offer minis are defrauding their clients because all small clients only trading in the one direction and cannot possibly have their positions offset against each other. Man, that might require a computer or something!
Apparently none of these defrauded clients ever communicate with each other and this vast secret remains hidden.
And there must always be an inexhaustable supply of these suckers(as their accounts are drained rapidly) and they must just continue to lose without ever learning anything.
I would suggest brokers cashflow problems are rarely solved by fraud and the accounts of tiny retail traders are the very least of their problems.
Please keep posting. This stuff is gold.
  • #35
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:54am Aug 6, 2007 1:54am
Quoting FxJarhead
Starting "somewhere" was covered in an earlier post......though I'd NEVER keep 500k with an OTC spot broker.....I could be wrong, thinking last I heard.....1 million for a bank trading account......correct if mistaken.

And YES, many do believe 300 can go to 1million......may take 30 years.
Though 50k can easily return 4-5k per month/though I'd prefer a better cushion......once a trader KNOWS what they are doing. My self, I don't care if my account reaches 1 million, ever. I take 2 pay checks per month......and put excess into other vehicles.
So you believe you can turn 10% a month with a 50k account?

Yet, you insist a $300 account could not do the same?

I say, Invest $300 a month for 36 months. This is aproximately a car payment for most Americans. Compounded making 10% a month while keeping your regular job will net you $89,738.04 with only a $10800 investment over the course of 36 months.

Now do that for 4 years (48 Months the term of that standard car loan). You have invested $14400 and your account balance would be $288,051.70.

You can not have it both ways. Either it is or it is not possible to make 10% a month on a forex account. Capital has no relivance to that fact. My Broker lets me trade all the way down to .01 Mini lots. I can and do apply correct money management to my trades with an account as small as $300.

The difference is, you are advocating that people initially risk $50,000 to make a living on Forex. I am advocating you keep your job, invest a small amount over time and in less time then the average marrage in America you can have a substancial amount of savings and the ability to free yourself from a job working for someone else. Durring this time, you can keep your standard of living without risking health benifits, mortgage or food.
Que
  • #36
  • Aug 6, 2007 2:06am Aug 6, 2007 2:06am
Quoting FxJarhead
No doubt, I agree with you on using mini's in that fashion you describe.

Though to get the best spreads and lowest commissions.....example Dukascopy.....250k is smallest "lot" and the spreads are LOW, what is commission now....$20/mil or $25/mil
Now I have to admit, I do like Oanda....very good for a "mini" trader with Capital....plus they pay that commish by the second.....it is a nice bonus when a Long 10 lot trade on any yen cross takes a while to move to TP.
Yup, you're right about the spreads.
I got a little carried away with the mini-standard debate and lost sight of the original post. Valid points were made for sure.
  • #37
  • Aug 6, 2007 2:39am Aug 6, 2007 2:39am
Quoting Pip Rage
So you believe that all brokers that offer minis are defrauding their clients
I do. Anything under 10-30k should not be using mini lots. They are by far too big. Micro sizing is a must for any account below those levels to allow proper MM. If you are forced to use a minimum of 1 USD/pip then you are seriously overstaking and using by far too much risk. Your chances of blowing out even when using a functional system are far far far greater (do a risk analysis / simulation if you don't trust me writing it) and you can basically just GIVE your broker the 500$ if that's what you're opening the mini with.

I know half the public forum will dispute and ridicule this statement, but I believe that most of those screaming how they have turned 200$ into 2000$ and how it's perfectly fine to trade mini end up being the ones writing something along the lines of "blew my third account" in 6 month's time.

Just my opinion and personal experience.

Also please realize that you can stake 500$ per pip with a micro account as well. For some reason people keep on thinking that just because you CAN use as little as a few cents that you HAVE to. No, you CAN. But what IS important is that you don't HAVE to use 1 USD/pip min and that's all the difference in the world.

A good way to tell how this enforced overstaking by the brokers is the way they squeeze you dry is that whenever I asked about anyone offering micro when looking around for a new broker they all started go "oh, er, well, hmmm, you know, that's THEORETICALLY possible, but..." or just right out blatantly "no sorry, we don't offer micro".

Right. It's sooooo impossible to allow for a local dealing desk which they all operate pooling and offsetting of micros, but it's not silly to implement account management for 200-500$ sizes. Righto, righto..

Funnily enough some of the support desks/chat folks actually agreed that it's impossible to implement proper risk management with a mini only account with such small a size....how's that for a laugh
Trust price. Know yourself.
  • #38
  • Aug 6, 2007 2:44am Aug 6, 2007 2:44am
Quoting SeekingLight
I do. Anything under 10-30k should not be using mini lots. They are by far too big. Micro sizing is a must for any account below those levels to allow proper MM. If you are forced to use a minimum of 1 USD/pip then you are seriously overstaking and using by far too much risk. Your chances of blowing out even when using a functional system are far far far greater (do a risk analysis / simulation if you don't trust me writing it) and you can basically just GIVE your broker the 500$ if that's what you're opening the mini with.

I know half the public forum will dispute and ridicule this statement, but I believe that most of those screaming how they have turned 200$ into 2000$ and how it's perfectly fine to trade mini end up being the ones writing something along the lines of "blew my third account" in 6 month's time.

Just my opinion and personal experience.

Also please realize that you can stake 500$ per pip with a micro account as well. For some reason people keep on thinking that just because you CAN use as little as a few cents that you HAVE to. No, you CAN. But what IS important is that you don't HAVE to use 1 USD/pip min and that's all the difference in the world.
You are correct using those assumptions as usual SL.

The problem is people keep labling Mini accounts incorrectly. The fact is most Mini account will allow you to trade 0.10 (1 micro) or even as low as 0.01 (1 nano) Mini lots. I know several brokers that allow this. The two most popular are IBFX and Oanda.

Given the above, it is perfectly acceptable to open a mini account with $300. Just do not expect to trade 1.00 mini lot, or you are an idiot.
Que
  • #39
  • Aug 6, 2007 2:46am Aug 6, 2007 2:46am
Quoting Pip Rage
Ahh, I see.
You're a conspiracy theorist. LOL
So you believe that all brokers that offer minis are defrauding their clients because all small clients only trading in the one direction and cannot possibly have their positions offset against each other. Man, that might require a computer or something!
Apparently none of these defrauded clients ever communicate with each other and this vast secret remains hidden.
And there must always be an inexhaustable supply of these suckers(as their accounts are drained rapidly) and they must just continue to lose without ever learning anything.
I would suggest brokers cashflow problems are rarely solved by fraud and the accounts of tiny retail traders are the very least of their problems.
Please keep posting. This stuff is gold.
Ok let's put this issue to rest. Please provide me or find someone who will provide us with a detailed account statement in which we can see how they turned $250-$5000 into hundred thousands or millions? THERE IS NO SUCH PERSON. Everyone is either still working on it or have blown their account. But in any case i do not wanna convince you that is impossible. Only time and a lot of wasted efforts will convince you. But i wish you the best of trading.
  • #40
  • Aug 6, 2007 2:49am Aug 6, 2007 2:49am
Quoting billflet
Can't make a living with a mini account? Talk to my friend Gwan (on this forum) from Indonesia and ask how much you need to live there.
..........
My point? We all have our own needs, goals, methods, situations, etc. and can't be painted with the same brush.
Oh Sorry Bill, i 'm not living off from forex, but it is indeed cheaper to live in tropical island for comparison, a Mc Donald Fillet O'fish with cheese+Small Coke + Med Fries is less than $2 (that's why it is called junk food right?) but it still taste good... no refill though...
if you love vegetables you can cut the expense to 1/3.

as the thread become more confusing, should most of the mini trader broke, isn't it because it is retail? so that many use it, and try....
...
once i calculate, if i must live from forex with $200 a month with 10% return a year, i need $24.000 but if i can get 100% return a year, i still need $2.400.... i think it is all back to ROI (Return of Investment)

and yes, someone may ever become a billionaire from zero, even in forex
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