DislikedI'm gonna say nah, one thing all INDICATOR based systems have in common is that none work in all market conditions.
Price will be price in all market conditions. No setup - no trade
As simple as that.Ignored
Top 100 best Trading Systems: post good Trading Systems here 47 replies
At what lot size/account size do you have scale issues? 39 replies
Account size and trading size 12 replies
Point equivalent is calculated with the account size or traded size? 4 replies
Systems, Systems and Systems... 1 reply
DislikedA $5000 bank is perfectly adequate for an experienced scalper using one minute candles and 10 pip stops during sessional openings.
Ignorance is the greatest obstacle facing any trader.
The smallest edge can be turned into a healthy living with appropriate trade management and position-sizing.
Oh my friend i have this feeling you will lose more than one account in future. Warren Buffet doesn't use 1minute candles to scalp. That is a 100% guarentee that you WILL loose you account. But like you say ignorance is the greatest obstacleIgnored
DislikedMy friend i hate to burst to bubble, but you will never make a living out of forex trading a mini account. In time you will agree with me.Ignored
DislikedI often read the trading system section to see with what weird and wonderful "trading systems" people have come up with. Most of the time it is pure entertainment for me. Especially if I see these cluttered screens and indicators from god knows where and that only god himself can understand. I have found the following trend occuring in almost all of the trading systems posted on this forum.
John Doe starts off by saying that he has developed a profitable trading system based on XYZ doing ABC.
After about 2-3 months and a lot of questions from a few disciples that decided to follow John Doe's trading system he then modifies his trading system or as he puts it "improve it for better entry positions and/or more pips". So you begin to get a John Doe version 1......and later a version 2...and later a version 3.....and later on everyone is confused.... including John Doe himself.
After about 3-6 months you will find John Doe roaming the pages of Pete's new trading system. And after a while Pete's new system goes thru the exact same stages as John Doe's system. And after 3-6 months you will find Pete roaming the pages of Jimmy's new trading system. And so the story continues......
So what is the lesson to be learned here? A trading system is a trading system. They are all the same. The problem is not the trading system. The problem is the size of your forex account. It's the size of your forex account that is the BIGGEST OBSTACLE in you way
if you have a $1 - $10 000 forex trading account you ONLY do forex for the fun of it and as a hobby. But you will NEVER make a living out of forex. Cause if you trade standard lots ($10 per pip) then you have only 1000 pips to manouvre with. And believe you me the JPY will take you out within a few days time. If you trade mini lots ($1 per pip or smaller) then it will take you ages to make enough money to live off
Only if you have a $30 000 - $50 000 plus forex account will you stand a chance of making a living out of forex. But you will have to choose your trades very carefully.
Only if you have a $100 000 - $1 000 000 forex account will you be one of the 5% that makes a living trading forex IF you only trade standard lot ($10 per pip). Cause then ONLY can you weather the storm of the market turning against you while still having enough capital to continue trading.
Remember....there is a reason why forex brokers offer you the oppertunity to open a mini account of $250 -$10 000 to trade an unpredictable market. Cause they know the odds are heavily against you. Nowhere else will you find a way of turning $250 into millions. Forex is no exception. There are no short cuts in life. It's like taking on the mighty Indian Ocean in only a small row boat. You stand no chance. If you wanna venture out to sea first find yourself a big enough ship that can weather the storms of the ocean.Ignored
Disliked
While some in Idonesia can live off a well funded and managed mini account, I am hard pressed to believe that traders in the US, UK, EU, NZ, AUS, JPY and a few others would be able to ONLY trade for a living with less than 5000K usd..... $25k is the bare minimum to begin to grow an account to even think about withdrawing ( net income ), albeit small, those with F/T employment, needing "perks"...health, dental, and the such.....are in essence supplamenting ( spell check here ) incomes. Those using micros and demo accounts are learning ( though I am not a fan of demo accounts ) Demos are not REAL market conditions. Yes we have to start somewhere.
Good Luck allIgnored
DislikedFX, you make good points. Capital IS King. The more capital you have, the less you have to strive for those high percentages each month.
My point is this:
If you might be able to make a living from 30-50k as iandekoker acknowledges (I agree it is unlikely in the U.S.), then why can't it be done in a mini account with the same capital? Isn't a 10 lot mini position the same as a single standard lot? I'm not talking about making a living from a 5k account or even a 30 k account. I'm saying you can get the same results, if not better from a mini account than a standard account if they are funded equally. The mini has more flexibility.
Say you have a 30k standard account and you are ready to take a trade. You figure your risk to reward and your leverage and your MM rules allow you to trade 2.4 standard lots. But your standard account only allows you to trade either two lots or three and nothing in between.. Two lots doesn't use all the capital you're allowed and three will overextend your MM rules.
Now, the same situation with 30k in a mini account. You can buy 20 lots (2 standard) or 30 lots (3 standard) or 24 lots which will be using all the capital your MM allows without overextending.
All that being said, here in the U.S. I wouldn't consider trading for a living with 30-50k. At least not if it was my only capital. I'm sure there are some folks who can and do and I'm not doubting them a bit. But it would be way out of my comfort zone.Ignored
DislikedI laugh at all the "You are undercapitalized" posts. It is complete and utter bullshit. I am not saying you are going to make a living off a $300 account, but given time and discipline, you can grow it into something.
Using proper money management you also should never break that account.
Anyone learning forex should Demo for a while until they get the basics. After that open a bare minimum account and use correct money management. You may think that is chump change, but when you lose $30 of that $300 you will feel it. It will make you a much better trader. Not only that, its a cheap lesson. You do not need a $30,000 lesson in forex to succeed.Ignored
DislikedThe subject was MAKING A LIVING...not growing a $300 account......Gp out and start your own Biz for $300 and see how far you go....as the poster stated......that is a hobby.....not trading for a living....BIG DIFFERENCEIgnored
DislikedTo all those traders who believe they can still make lots of money trading mini accounts.
Imagine YOU are the forex broker and you set up your own forex business. You allow me and a few other traders to open a mini forex account ($250-$5000) with you.
If we play smart we can make lots of money off you. We can turn our small investment into big returns.
Why on earth would you as forex broker allow that to happen? Cause it is bad business sense to allow someone to only invest $250-$5000 with you, BUT he can make thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions from you???? Your forex business would go bankrupt in less than a month's time. Cause you only get small change (initial investment and spread) in from investors but you have to pay out big sums of money to them. You as the forex broker now carries all the risk. And as you know any business can carry uncovered risk only for a while. Uncovered risk is what makes businesses to bankrupt.
Brokers only allow you to open mini accounts with them cause that is a no risk guarenteed income for them. 95% of mini accounts get blown. Now that makes good business sense to allow someone to investment a small amount of money in your forex business if the odds are heavily in your favor and heavily against them. All you do is trick them into believing they can take $250-$5000 and turn it into thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions.
Ps....if you still believe you can beat forex with only a mini account then i suggest you withdraw your money ASAP from your forex broker cause there is NO WAY your forex broker can manage this uncovered risk by paying millions of dollars to clients if they all only invest in small $250-$5000 mini accounts. Somewhere along the line your broker is gonna run into cashflow problems and/or the uncovered risk will kill them. But how many reliable forex brokers go bankrupt every week? Hmmmm makes u think doesn't it.....Ignored
DislikedI do not think anyone here believes that they will make 4-5k a month off a $300 account. Maybe they do think that and I am unaware. But you have to start somewhere and I would not quit my job with anything less then $500,000 in my trading account.Ignored
DislikedTo all those traders who believe they can still make lots of money trading mini accounts.
Imagine YOU are the forex broker and you set up your own forex business. You allow me and a few other traders to open a mini forex account ($250-$5000) with you.
If we play smart we can make lots of money off you. We can turn our small investment into big returns.
Why on earth would you as forex broker allow that to happen? Cause it is bad business sense to allow someone to only invest $250-$5000 with you, BUT he can make thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions from you???? Your forex business would go bankrupt in less than a month's time. Cause you only get small change (initial investment and spread) in from investors but you have to pay out big sums of money to them. You as the forex broker now carries all the risk. And as you know any business can carry uncovered risk only for a while. Uncovered risk is what makes businesses to bankrupt.
Brokers only allow you to open mini accounts with them cause that is a no risk guarenteed income for them. 95% of mini accounts get blown. Now that makes good business sense to allow someone to investment a small amount of money in your forex business if the odds are heavily in your favor and heavily against them. All you do is trick them into believing they can take $250-$5000 and turn it into thousands, ten thousands, hundred thousands, even millions.
Ps....if you still believe you can beat forex with only a mini account then i suggest you withdraw your money ASAP from your forex broker cause there is NO WAY your forex broker can manage this uncovered risk by paying millions of dollars to clients if they all only invest in small $250-$5000 mini accounts. Somewhere along the line your broker is gonna run into cashflow problems and/or the uncovered risk will kill them. But how many reliable forex brokers go bankrupt every week? Hmmmm makes u think doesn't it.....Ignored
DislikedStarting "somewhere" was covered in an earlier post......though I'd NEVER keep 500k with an OTC spot broker.....I could be wrong, thinking last I heard.....1 million for a bank trading account......correct if mistaken.
And YES, many do believe 300 can go to 1million......may take 30 years.
Though 50k can easily return 4-5k per month/though I'd prefer a better cushion......once a trader KNOWS what they are doing. My self, I don't care if my account reaches 1 million, ever. I take 2 pay checks per month......and put excess into other vehicles.Ignored
DislikedNo doubt, I agree with you on using mini's in that fashion you describe.
Though to get the best spreads and lowest commissions.....example Dukascopy.....250k is smallest "lot" and the spreads are LOW, what is commission now....$20/mil or $25/mil
Now I have to admit, I do like Oanda....very good for a "mini" trader with Capital....plus they pay that commish by the second.....it is a nice bonus when a Long 10 lot trade on any yen cross takes a while to move to TP.Ignored
DislikedSo you believe that all brokers that offer minis are defrauding their clientsIgnored
DislikedI do. Anything under 10-30k should not be using mini lots. They are by far too big. Micro sizing is a must for any account below those levels to allow proper MM. If you are forced to use a minimum of 1 USD/pip then you are seriously overstaking and using by far too much risk. Your chances of blowing out even when using a functional system are far far far greater (do a risk analysis / simulation if you don't trust me writing it) and you can basically just GIVE your broker the 500$ if that's what you're opening the mini with.
I know half the public forum will dispute and ridicule this statement, but I believe that most of those screaming how they have turned 200$ into 2000$ and how it's perfectly fine to trade mini end up being the ones writing something along the lines of "blew my third account" in 6 month's time.
Just my opinion and personal experience.
Also please realize that you can stake 500$ per pip with a micro account as well. For some reason people keep on thinking that just because you CAN use as little as a few cents that you HAVE to. No, you CAN. But what IS important is that you don't HAVE to use 1 USD/pip min and that's all the difference in the world.Ignored
DislikedAhh, I see.
You're a conspiracy theorist. LOL
So you believe that all brokers that offer minis are defrauding their clients because all small clients only trading in the one direction and cannot possibly have their positions offset against each other. Man, that might require a computer or something!
Apparently none of these defrauded clients ever communicate with each other and this vast secret remains hidden.
And there must always be an inexhaustable supply of these suckers(as their accounts are drained rapidly) and they must just continue to lose without ever learning anything.
I would suggest brokers cashflow problems are rarely solved by fraud and the accounts of tiny retail traders are the very least of their problems.
Please keep posting. This stuff is gold.Ignored
DislikedCan't make a living with a mini account? Talk to my friend Gwan (on this forum) from Indonesia and ask how much you need to live there.
..........
My point? We all have our own needs, goals, methods, situations, etc. and can't be painted with the same brush.Ignored