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  • #141
  • Aug 1, 2007 10:21am Aug 1, 2007 10:21am
Quoting Spindrift
your best bet may be to ask Hanover if it's possible to make a version of the BuildNews.csv process that could be set to run continuously and update news.csv every "so many" seconds.
Will just have to be careful that we do not put ff site into overload.

Quoting Spindrift
This has worked pretty well up until just lately when the increased broker spreads (47 pips on my broker on the latest NZ interest rate statement!) have made it nigh on impossible to make a profit.
:-( I am using a couple of brokers and none of them do that at news time - they all stay with the 'normal' spread.
  • #142
  • Aug 1, 2007 3:34pm Aug 1, 2007 3:34pm
Quoting gifog
:-( I am using a couple of brokers and none of them do that at news time - they all stay with the 'normal' spread.
If those are live accounts, I'd be interested to know which brokers they are, as I know lots of people struggle either with increased spreads or requotes at news time. I'm not sure if the forum rules allow you to mention names so please PM me.

The underlying problem seems to be liquidity: if you use an ECN broker, their system can find it difficult to find someone to take the opposite position before the top of the spike; if you use a retail broker, they struggle to put your requested position into the market (for the same reason) and have to (temporarily) take the opposite position themselves. (Thus, they widen the spread to protect themselves.) The last two trades I did with my broker, the spreads went to 30 and 47 pips respectively (and that went for everyone using that broker). I rode out the first one, as spreads do eventually normalise, but was stopped out on the second for a big loss.

The chat room I was in held regular "profitability" sessions to discuss broker performance, which is how I know that lots of other folks were having problems across a large range of brokers.

There's also the fact that once some brokers get to know you're spike trading, they put you on manual execution. Most people in the chat room eventually had problems getting reasonable fills, usually resulting in a change of broker (or opening another account with the same broker under a different name). Incidentally, the guy who runs the room now trades almost exclusively on the "after spike"; i.e. looking for an entry after the initial spike has retraced.

It sure ain't easy out there!
  • #143
  • Aug 2, 2007 5:24pm Aug 2, 2007 5:24pm
Hi Spindrift

Quoting Spindrift
Regarding getting the released numbers into the EA, your best bet may be to ask Hanover if it's possible to make a version of the BuildNews.csv process that could be set to run continuously and update news.csv every "so many" seconds.
These days I'm pretty busy trading a live account, and also some other (non-forex) software development work. However, if enough people are enthusiastic about having an idea implemented, and can explain clearly enough what they require, then I'll certainly consider it. Keep in mind that I'm not experienced enough with MQL4 to attempt anything really complex, like writing EAs
______________________________

Quoting Spindrift
The chat room I was in held regular "profitability" sessions to discuss broker performance, which is how I know that lots of other folks were having problems across a large range of brokers...... It sure ain't easy out there!
Re liquidity, with the technology (e.g. "instant" news services) that are now available, I expect there's a growing army of folk who are getting into news trading. Unlike TA, where it's possible to have several different opinions about the same chart, many news announcements tend to be either unambiguously positive or negative, and like you say, it's simply a case of trying to guess what has or hasn't already been factored into price. Obviously it's a zero sum game, and brokers aren't in it for charity. So alas, I don't think news trading is going to get any easier.......

David
  • #144
  • Aug 3, 2007 4:03am Aug 3, 2007 4:03am
Quoting hanover
Hi Spindrift


These days I'm pretty busy trading a live account, and also some other (non-forex) software development work. However, if enough people are enthusiastic about having an idea implemented, and can explain clearly enough what they require, then I'll certainly consider it. Keep in mind that I'm not experienced enough with MQL4 to attempt anything really complex, like writing EAs
______________________________
David
If I understand Gifog's requirements correctly, it would need to be something in the pre-Metatrader process that would simulate the little green button that appears around the time of the release. There would need to be an active process that picked up the number from FF as soon as possible and put it into news.csv. I think Gifog is intending to write the EA...

Quoting hanover
Re liquidity, with the technology (e.g. "instant" news services) that are now available, I expect there's a growing army of folk who are getting into news trading. Unlike TA, where it's possible to have several different opinions about the same chart, many news announcements tend to be either unambiguously positive or negative, and like you say, it's simply a case of trying to guess what has or hasn't already been factored into price. Obviously it's a zero sum game, and brokers aren't in it for charity. So alas, I don't think news trading is going to get any easier.......

David
I have some experience of one of the smaller ECN brokers and I think that environment makes it easier to see the wider issue. It's almost impossible to get a good fill on the spike but much easier, most of the time, to get requested fills prior to the news or after the initial profit taking has died away. If you combine trading at those two points with good money management, I don't see why news trading shouldn't provide a consistent profit.
  • #145
  • Aug 3, 2007 12:20pm Aug 3, 2007 12:20pm
Quoting Spindrift
If I understand Gifog's requirements correctly, it would need to be something in the pre-Metatrader process that would simulate the little green button that appears around the time of the release. There would need to be an active process that picked up the number from FF as soon as possible and put it into news.csv. I think Gifog is intending to write the EA...
A big yes to both of those. Something to get just that news data from that 'little green button' is exactly it. The EA is 3/4 complete.
  • #146
  • Aug 4, 2007 2:55pm Aug 4, 2007 2:55pm
Quoting Spindrift
If I understand Gifog's requirements correctly, it would need to be something in the pre-Metatrader process that would simulate the little green button that appears around the time of the release. There would need to be an active process that picked up the number from FF as soon as possible and put it into news.csv.
Programatically I believe I could achieve this, but it would mean polling the FF calendar/website repeatedly during (what I assume is) their busiest period, to download the calendar and then extract the data. I expect that (1) downloading the calendar would be slower than clicking the "green button", so it might not achieve the desired result quickly enough, and (2) I wouldn't want to create excessive traffic without the permission of the FF website owners.

Quoting Spindrift
I have some experience of one of the smaller ECN brokers and I think that environment makes it easier to see the wider issue. It's almost impossible to get a good fill on the spike but much easier, most of the time, to get requested fills prior to the news or after the initial profit taking has died away. If you combine trading at those two points with good money management, I don't see why news trading shouldn't provide a consistent profit.
Fair enough. I've practically zero experience at news trading, so please ignore my comment. I just assumed that in a zero sum game there have to be losers, and brokers would naturally take measures to ensure it wasn't themselves. One question though: to get a requested fill prior to the announcement, how would we know in advance which way price is going to spike? Or would we place both buy and sell orders at market prior to the news (thereby paying the spread twice), and simply close one the instant the announcement is known? (Just curious, please excuse my ignorance).

David
  • #147
  • Aug 5, 2007 4:30am Aug 5, 2007 4:30am
Quoting hanover
I wouldn't want to create excessive traffic without the permission of the FF website owners.
Absolutely, hence my original comment about not placing undo load on ff server(s). Moderator: could you please point Hanover to the website admin for discussion, thanks?

Having said that, my experience shows that the actuals appear a few minutes after newstime (little green button). I am not planning on making the EA hypersensitive, ie 'polling' the little green button every 3 seconds or so, but rather capture the actuals x minutes after the news-time once only. This means anybody running the EA would only hit the website once, and that x minutes after news-time. This is actually even less load than somebody sitting on the webpage, continuously clicking the green button. Hanover, ok with this, ie requirements ok for you to program?

Quoting hanover
One question though: to get a requested fill prior to the announcement, how would we know in advance which way price is going to spike?
We don't, and the EA is not planned to work that way. The EA will only enter after newstime.
Quoting hanover
Or would we place both buy and sell orders at market prior to the news (thereby paying the spread twice), and simply close one the instant the announcement is known?
This would be straddling the price, and there are indicators/EA's already doing that.
  • #148
  • Aug 5, 2007 4:56am Aug 5, 2007 4:56am
Quoting hanover
Fair enough. I've practically zero experience at news trading, so please ignore my comment. I just assumed that in a zero sum game there have to be losers, and brokers would naturally take measures to ensure it wasn't themselves. One question though: to get a requested fill prior to the announcement, how would we know in advance which way price is going to spike? Or would we place both buy and sell orders at market prior to the news (thereby paying the spread twice), and simply close one the instant the announcement is known? (Just curious, please excuse my ignorance).

David
I think your assumption is correct. What differs is the way in which the brokers do it in volatile markets, like those at news times. My take on it is as follows: Retail brokers, in general, widen spreads to give themselves some leeway in getting another player to take an opposite position, or "slip" the price you get filled at, in which case, I guess you're waiting for another player to take the opposite position. ECN brokers connect you directly to the other players so that the onus is on you to find (via an automated system) someone to take the opposite position. I think some (bad) brokers create a negative sum game where they take the opposite position and then manipulate the game to "help" you to lose (with such dodgy practices as "stop hunting")!

When I mentioned trading before the news, I was thinking about assessing possible pre-news price movement based on forecasts and previous numbers. I would envisage that kind of trade being over well before the announcement.

I think opening two orders prior to the news, and then closing one when you know the numbers, has all the same problems as trying to get in on the spike. For example, if the news indicates a "buy", you'll be trying to close your short position, which, in effect, is the same as buying. The one time I tried it, without having thought it through, it wasn't very successful! The other method is straddling; i.e. having stop orders above and below the current price. There are a few good MT EAs on the forums, which adjust your orders to take account of the price fluctuations prior to news release. Slippage and widened spreads, however, make this just as difficult and, as I don't think MT allows you specify maximum deviation on a stop order, it's very easy to get filled at the top of the spike!

I'm definitely going to keep away from spike trading from now on although, as mentioned above, I still think there's a future in trading news releases.
  • #149
  • Edited 5:40pm Aug 5, 2007 5:29pm | Edited 5:40pm
Quoting gifog
Having said that, my experience shows that the actuals appear a few minutes after newstime (little green button). I am not planning on making the EA hypersensitive, ie 'polling' the little green button every 3 seconds or so, but rather capture the actuals x minutes after the news-time once only. This means anybody running the EA would only hit the website once, and that x minutes after news-time. This is actually even less load than somebody sitting on the webpage, continuously clicking the green button. Hanover, ok with this, ie requirements ok for you to program?
Hi Gifog

As you’re probably aware, the process of grabbing and processing the calendar is written in Clarion, not MQL4. That is largely because my MQL4 experience is very limited. (At some point, if I ever have the luxury of several consecutive hours worth of leisure time, I hope to remedy that. )

Versions 1.09 onward of FFcal.EXE are capable of writing the FF calendar to CSV and XML format, and filtering the data by date range, so that only the latest announcements get output. I know, from the way that Plot_News operates, that an MQL4 indicator is capable of reading data from a text file. If an EA can potentially do the same, then (assuming I understand you correctly) we’re already close to solving your problem.

In its current form, it would be possible to wait for any desired period (“x” minutes) following a news announcement, run FFcal.EXE, press F5, and output the result to a text file, which your EA could supposedly read and process. I apologize if I don’t understand correctly, but I assume that what you’re saying is that this would be adequate if a similar, non-manual process could be called directly from the EA?

If so, I could strip down the Clarion process and provide an EXE that grabs the calendar, and outputs a text file of news announcements that were scheduled to have occurred within the last (say) 15 minutes, would that suffice? I know that MQL4 indicators can access external DLLs, but I don’t know if an EA is capable of calling an executable program (if not, then I’m afraid I can’t help). Also, if the capture process is being performed just once per announcement (as opposed to continuously polling), there would be no guarantee that the “actual” value would be available.

Am I understanding this correctly?

David

[Edit: another thought - it might be possible to you to call an HTML grabber like WGET.EXE directly from your EA. See post #81 in this thread for more info. You could then parse the HTML directly from your EA to get the data you require. I suspect that this might be tidier and more efficient than having the EA call a Clarion-written process.]
  • #150
  • Aug 5, 2007 5:30pm Aug 5, 2007 5:30pm
Quoting Spindrift
I think your assumption is correct. What differs is the way in which the brokers.....
Spindrift, thanks very much for your comprehensive reply. You've filled in many gaps in my knowledge as to how different types of brokers operate. Much appreciated.

David
  • #151
  • Aug 6, 2007 1:05pm Aug 6, 2007 1:05pm
Quoting hanover
...run FFCAL.exe...similar, non-manual process...
This is where the challenge lies. Grabbing the calendar just after news-time will not provide the actual data. I have done this a few times recently manually, and the calendar only gets updated with the actuals a long time after, long as in 30+ minutes. The answer seems to lie in the little green button on the website, as that provides just that specific actual news a few minutes after the announcement. Moderator(s): could you please put hanover/myself in touch with the ff web administrators, to discuss how this little green button could be activated from within Clarion, EA or some such?

An EA can call an .exe, but it is quite a lengthy, tricky business. My skills are not yet up to that.

Quoting hanover
[Edit: another thought - it might be possible to you to call an HTML grabber like WGET.EXE directly from your EA. See post #81 in this thread for more info. You could then parse the HTML directly from your EA to get the data you require. I suspect that this might be tidier and more efficient than having the EA call a Clarion-written process.]
Thanks, I will pursue this - not sure about 'pressing that little green button though'.
  • #152
  • Aug 7, 2007 12:50am Aug 7, 2007 12:50am
Quoting gifog
Grabbing the calendar just after news-time will not provide the actual data...... Thanks, I will pursue this - not sure about 'pressing that little green button though'.
Gifog, if this hinges on 'pressing that little green button' rather than grabbing the calendar as a whole, then I'm afraid I cannot help.

David
  • #153
  • Aug 7, 2007 10:26am Aug 7, 2007 10:26am
Quoting hanover
Gifog, if this hinges on 'pressing that little green button' rather than grabbing the calendar as a whole, then I'm afraid I cannot help.
Unfortunately that is what it seems to have evolved to - there seems to be no other way for now, except going for expensive news providsers. Thanks for your advice and assistance. I will apply my mind as to how we can 'press that little green button'.
  • #154
  • Aug 8, 2007 7:30am Aug 8, 2007 7:30am
David
I am curious to know why the program did not pick up the BOE News at 10:30BST? THe items before and after arrived on the charts as usual.

Thanks again for one of the most useful indicators I've come across in recent times.

rorieu
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: BOE omission.jpg Size: 49 KB
Attached Image
  • #155
  • Aug 8, 2007 2:23pm Aug 8, 2007 2:23pm
Quoting rorieu
David
I am curious to know why the program did not pick up the BOE News at 10:30BST? THe items before and after arrived on the charts as usual.

Thanks again for one of the most useful indicators I've come across in recent times.

rorieu
Hi Rorieu

The BOE event appears on my chart (see below).

Please try the following:

Press F9 and see if the missing item appears in the Events History.

If it does, then one of your parameter settings in the lower area of the "Build News.CSV" screen is probably filtering it out. (For example if you have "Show only on relevant currency charts" checked on, then BOE will only appear on charts involving the GBP pair; if you have "GBP" in the "Wingdings symbol output" set to zero, no GBP-related events will be output, and so on).

If it doesn't appear in the Events History, look at your "Include unvalued events" parameter in the upper area. This must be checked ON if you want events that don't have Actual/Forecast/Previous values, to be exported from the calendar in the Events History (and then output to News.CSV).

Change this setting to ON, and then press Enter to rebuild. Reattach the Plot_News indicator to your chart (or simply edit it).

Does this fix the problem? If not, can you please post a screenshot of your parameters, and I'll take a look.

David
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: BOE example.JPG Size: 24 KB
  • #156
  • Aug 10, 2007 1:41am Aug 10, 2007 1:41am
That's it , David

I wondered about the absence of values being the reason but it does not occur very often. I hadn't noticed that tick box.

You've thought of everything!

Thanks again

R


Quoting hanover
Hi Rorieu

If it doesn't appear in the Events History, look at your "Include unvalued events" parameter in the upper area. This must be checked ON if you want events that don't have Actual/Forecast/Previous values, to be exported from the calendar in the Events History (and then output to News.CSV).

Change this setting to ON, and then press Enter to rebuild. Reattach the Plot_News indicator to your chart (or simply edit it).

Does this fix the problem? If not, can you please post a screenshot of your parameters, and I'll take a look.

David
  • #157
  • Edited 1:27am Aug 19, 2007 1:25am | Edited 1:27am
Deleted
  • #158
  • Aug 20, 2007 9:38pm Aug 20, 2007 9:38pm
Hi guys,

Can one of you solve my problem please?

During the news, oftenly spreads expanding like hell, for example, with EUR/USD it could be up to 11 pips... So it's very dangerous for us to let our EA working unattendly, and what I would like to do is to lock the spread to max 2 pips for EUR/USD and set OFF our EA or not working during that expanding spread, then when the spread goes back to normal, as 2 pips, our EA will ON again automatically.

Thanks in advance for your kind attention, and I hope it maybe usefull for others as well.

Judy Hank
Jodie Forex at its Best
  • #159
  • Aug 21, 2007 2:24am Aug 21, 2007 2:24am
Quoting jhp2025
Hi guys,
Can one of you solve my problem please?
Hi Jhp2025,

Welcome to the forum.

If I understand correctly, you would need to post your EA's source code, and have it modified by a programmer.

Can I respectfully suggest that you also start a new thread on the "MetaTrader Forum"? I suspect that it's more likely to be noticed there, than by posting here.

The Plot_News indicator is not an EA, and does not look at spreads, either during or outside of news time. All it does is plot colored circles, representing news announcements, on a chart.

I hope that you find someone who can help you.

Best wishes
David
  • #160
  • Aug 21, 2007 12:03pm Aug 21, 2007 12:03pm
Could it be that Jhp2025 was referring to the EA I am/was trying to program? The one with the little green button?

On this issue, I have communicated with the Webmaster of FF, and have not yet found a way of getting the actual data down without potentially putting the FF site into overload. 2 programs which tried this have been blocked by the FF guys because they were trying to do virtually that - polling the site after the news in order to get the actuals.

So at this stage the EA is going nowhere. But if it was, then Judy is quite right - I would program something that allows you to set the parameter as to how much spread you are prepared to accept. Judy, this would be a static parameter, ie if the EA decided to trade at x minutes after the news, and the spread was unacceptable, then it would not trade that particular news at all. Is that what you had in mind?
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