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vsa with Malcolm

  • #36,421
  • Mar 19, 2025 5:51pm Mar 19, 2025 5:51pm
Quoting 1odi
{quote} Sry for the late reply. Volume when trading VSA is all that matters, cos imo u wanna sell after weakness and buy after strenght. so u can only count an AR after a climax and in this case if u have stopping volume. also u need a low volume break of the AR, cos that s the first test for sellers. if volume increases and u have a rejection then adjust the AR. Ussually if the AR breaks on low vol, u ll get a test and a nice mark up soon after (depending on the session that ur in). if it doesn t do that and just comes back below the AR and sits...
Thanks a lot and don't worry about the late reply, was worth it
Kind regards
  • #36,422
  • Mar 20, 2025 9:02pm Mar 20, 2025 9:02pm
I think USDCAD is going to be a fun day as long as price stays below yesterday's close.

A little bit of weakness behind us, we see a lack of demand as price returned to previous weakness on March 10 followed by a spike of high volume on the 11th where price failed to break through the supply. Price did fall on low volume 4 days ago, but also low volume as price climbed higher these last 3 days. Throw in yesterday's up thrust and there is potential for a drop.

If price climbs above yesterday's close then Ill exit my shorts. If price falls, get previous trades to BE and continue to add.
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  • #36,423
  • Edited 1:41pm Apr 2, 2025 1:24pm | Edited 1:41pm
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} For all those who do not want to read this extraordinary thread from the beginning, this is Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) in a nutshell. As Anotan likes to say, " Volume at
Hi hiddengap

I know that you are a big advocate of trading with the trend, specifically on your entry timeframe, agree more and more with that

Before I used to look only at the bigger timeframe and enter on the lower, don't do that anymore, I wait for trend change on the 5 min chart and look for trend on the 1 hour.

I use also automatic rally after a big volume and then retest but the 21 simple moving average needs to be pointing up for my entry.

My question is since you have tried them all which indicator/moving average you recommend.

I like the simple moving average because it makes like this round curve on the turns

I know people normally use the 20 exponential moving average

Malcolm used the hull, but not much he said that it was there but most of his trades were before a hull turn

I have seen you use the bpl line or something like that I also have seen you use the exponential also have seen you recommend the William %r as trend indicator, what are you using nowadays and what you recommend?

Just asking if I can find something better, the sma is very good but very slow, like I mentioned I like that it takes time to turn, but is very slow

Just looking for different options and different things

I'm happy for everyone to chip in just asking hiddengap because for him is very important the trend and for other traders not so much, but would love everyone opinions

Thanks
Kind regards
  • #36,424
  • Apr 7, 2025 12:53pm Apr 7, 2025 12:53pm
Quoting Frag8383
{quote}.... I also have seen you use the exponential also have seen you recommend the William %r as trend indicator, what are you using nowadays and what you recommend? Just asking if I can find something better, the sma is very good but very slow, like I mentioned I like that it takes time to turn, but is very slow Just looking for different options and different things
One of my trend tools is the COT line. It is simply a 20 period Exponential Moving Average (EMA) of the price with the highest volume for each individual bar interval. In market profile terms, it's the Point Of Control (POC) ((sometimes called the Commitment of Traders (((COT))) )) of each of the last 20 bars.

We all trade our own personalities and belief systems. Hence, if one was to be a believer in Fibonacci and wanted to use 21 instead of 20, the difference would be negligible. But the added believe in the number 21 would make a substantial difference. Now we're talking "inner game" and trusting your tools after a series of losses.

I also like Volume Weighted Average Price (VWAP).

As I wrote in a previous post, I am trying to "buy with buyers and sell with sellers", accordingly, I like Delta as a trend tool. The use of Delta as a trend tool is beyond the scope of this post. I will say, however, that Delta performs better in index futures than in other markets, especially FX.

Willams%R36 is a good trend tool, however, I prefer tools that incorporate volume as an input/factor.

Always remember, the idea is not to trade the trend indicator, but to not trade against it. In Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) terms, you are not looking to go short just because your trend indicator(s) turns negative. What you are looking to do is only take confirmed No Demands while the indicator is negative. You are not looking to go long just because your trend indicator(s) turns positive, what you are looking to do is only take confirmed Tests/No Supplies while the indicator is positive.

For the no indicator crowd, I like the concept of Full Time Frame Continuity (FTFC) as originally presented in the STRAT. Here I am looking for the 3 time frames to be either all above their respective opens or below them. When price is above the Weekly open, the Daily open and the 60 Minute open, there is FTFC to the upside and only longs should be entered. And vice versa for shorts.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #36,425
  • Apr 9, 2025 10:58am Apr 9, 2025 10:58am
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} One of my trend tools is the COT line. It is simply a 20 period Exponential Moving Average (EMA) of the price with the highest volume for each individual bar interval. In market profile terms, it's the Point Of Control (POC) ((sometimes called the Commitment of Traders (((COT))) )) of each of the last 20 bars. .
Thanks for the detailed explanation,

Are you not using to many indicators to point to the same thing, that is trend. My understanding after reading your post is that you really want the trend to be in your favor.

Dont really understand the COT Indicator.

Full Time Fram Continuity - I have used before and always have liked the concept, dont use it anymore since I trade more standard in terms of trend of bigger timeframe and enter on smaller timeframe and all need to align at the same time in the 1H. 1D and 1W is to slow for me

Kind Regards
  • #36,426
  • Apr 9, 2025 11:59am Apr 9, 2025 11:59am
Quoting Frag8383
Thanks for the detailed explanation, Are you not using to[o] many indicators to point to the same thing, that is trend.
Great question. I would argue that 1-3 indicators are sufficient, whereas 4 or more would be too many. But what really matters, regardless of the number of indicators used, is that all the indicators have some variation in how they measure trend.

COT measures the price with the most volume during an interval. This is looking a specific price level where the most volume traded.

VWAP measures the average price trade weighted by volume. This is looking at all price levels and emphasizing them by volume traded at that level.

DELTA measures the difference between the number of aggressive buyers and aggressive sellers. Aggression moves the market.

Additionally, the COT line not only acts as a trend indicator, but it also acts as a trailing stop placement guide.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #36,427
  • Apr 13, 2025 8:05am Apr 13, 2025 8:05am
Does anyone have experience with broker "AMP Futures" , or any good alternatives who offer futures on MT4/MT5 , actual futures not derivatives of futures.
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #36,428
  • Apr 13, 2025 12:09pm Apr 13, 2025 12:09pm
Quoting bluesoul
Does anyone have experience with broker "AMP Futures" , or any good alternatives who offer futures on MT4/MT5 , actual futures not derivatives of futures.
I had futures account with them, but used QUANTOWER platform. They do reduce margins on news events. They are legitimate if you are concerned with that.
  • #36,429
  • Apr 13, 2025 1:31pm Apr 13, 2025 1:31pm
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} For all those who do not want to read this extraordinary thread from the beginning, this is Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) in a nutshell. As Anotan likes to say, " Volume at Volume". I would be a bit more precise and say, "Lack of Volume at Volume". We're looking for Ultra High Volume, which connotes professional activity; either buying or selling. Then we want to see price move away from the ultra high volume bar followed by a retracement back into the area of the Ultra High Volume. This time, however, we want...
Well said!
Hats off to those who trade purely on price action or rely on trends and oscillators alone. I truly admire the discipline, but personally, I feel like they must be relying heavily on risk-reward ratios — because without volume, I honestly don’t know how they make sense of the market consistently.

For me, it's like trading blind without volume.
Price action alone feels completely random — it can go anywhere, anytime — unless I have volume as a reference point. Once volume enters the picture (especially through volume-driven tools and data), the chart starts speaking clearly. Only then does price action actually make sense.
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #36,430
  • Apr 13, 2025 1:41pm Apr 13, 2025 1:41pm
Quoting Frag8383
{quote} Hi hiddengap I know that you are a big advocate of trading with the trend, specifically on your entry timeframe, agree more and more with that Before I used to look only at the bigger timeframe and enter on the lower, don't do that anymore, I wait for trend change on the 5 min chart and look for trend on the 1 hour. I use also automatic rally after a big volume and then retest but the 21 simple moving average needs to be pointing up for my entry. My question is since you have tried them all which indicator/moving average you recommend. I like the simple moving average because it makes like this round curve on the turns I know people normally use the 20 exponential moving average Malcolm used the hull, but not much he said that it was there but most of his trades were before a hull turn I have seen you use the bpl line or something like that I also have seen you use the exponential also have seen you recommend the William %r as trend indicator, what are you using nowadays and what you recommend? Just asking if I can find something better, the sma is very good but very slow, like I mentioned I like that it takes time to turn, but is very slow Just looking for different options and different things I'm happy for everyone to chip in just asking hiddengap because for him is very important the trend and for other traders not so much, but would love everyone opinions Thanks Kind regards



Great post, and I really like how you emphasized not trading the trend tool directly, but rather using it to filter for high-probability VSA entries like Tests or No Demands. That resonates a lot.
You're absolutely right — in the end, it all boils down to trusting your tools, especially after a string of losses. That inner game belief makes all the difference.
Here are a few suggestions from my own experimentation, especially for M5 and lower (M1, M2, M3, M5 timeframes):

SuperTrend

  1. Settings: Period 10, Multiplier 1.5–1.8
  2. Great for visually clean trend direction on lower timeframes.

Hull Moving Average (HMA)

  1. Malcolm used HMA 14 on M15 and higher.
  2. For lower timeframes (M5 and below), HMA 20–34 works better.
  3. don’t wait for color change; a bar close above/below the HMA is usually a better trend shift signal.

Exponential Moving Average (EMA)

  1. EMA 21 to 50 on M5 or below can help.
  2. Again, the bar close above or below the EMA is often more useful than the direction of the line itself.

Try all of these in parallel, and see which one you can read and trust the most.

Because ultimately, it’s not about what works best for others — it’s about what’s reliable for you under pressure.

Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #36,431
  • Apr 13, 2025 6:16pm Apr 13, 2025 6:16pm
Quoting bluesoul
Does anyone have experience with broker "AMP Futures" , or any good alternatives who offer futures on MT4/MT5 , actual futures not derivatives of futures.
I used them for a bit in 2022. As far as a broker they were great.

I never had any issues with trade execution or slippage, but at the time their deposit/withdrawl process was a joke. You have to email them with your account info everytime you need to move money.

It's been a few years since I've used them, hopefully by now they've been able to automate the process.
  • #36,432
  • Apr 13, 2025 11:44pm Apr 13, 2025 11:44pm
Quoting Gambis
{quote} I had futures account with them,
Thanks, Gambis.
I’ve just downloaded the QUANTOWER platform to test things out, especially the footprint chart. Still exploring whether I can get a layout similar to ATAS, but so far it looks promising.

Quoting Anotan
{quote} I used them for a bit in 2022.
Thanks also, Anotan.
That’s helpful to know. I agree, the website does feel outdated, but I guess they don’t really need to focus on retail-style polish like flashy offers or bonuses. They seem more geared toward serious futures traders. I’m testing both MT5 for Intraday and QUANTOWER for Scalping, to see if its good alternative to ATAS and suits my workflow.
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #36,433
  • Apr 14, 2025 8:23am Apr 14, 2025 8:23am
Looks like HVZ's are controlling the market
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Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #36,434
  • Apr 14, 2025 9:07am Apr 14, 2025 9:07am
Quoting bluesoul
{quote} Great post, and I really like how you emphasized not trading the trend tool directly, but rather using it to filter for high-probability VSA entries like Tests or No Demands. That resonates a lot. You're absolutely right — in the end, it all boils down to trusting your tools, especially after a string of losses. That inner game belief makes all the difference. Here are a few suggestions from my own experimentation, especially for M5 and lower (M1, M2, M3, M5 timeframes): SuperTrend Settings: Period 10, Multiplier 1.5–1.8 Great for visually...
Long time ago when VSA started it was enough only VSA analysis...

Nowadays more and more indicators are added. Even HiddenGap add many indicators....that means only people don't understand VSA...

HiddenGap used only one TF...more indicators more confusion. Knowledge how to trade , how market makers trade only counts...
  • #36,435
  • Apr 14, 2025 10:45am Apr 14, 2025 10:45am
Quoting mortgagee
{quote} Long time ago when VSA started it was enough only VSA analysis... Nowadays more and more indicators are added. Even HiddenGap add many indicators....that means only people don't understand VSA... HiddenGap used only one TF...more indicators more confusion. Knowledge how to trade , how market makers trade only counts...
VSA is a Tool,
VSA does not move the market,
if someone is comfortable with only volume and chart to trade, thats fine, it can be done, and someone feels comfortable with adding anything from any concept or a tool(indicator) that is also fine. VSA doesn't stop anyone to that, Neither it is a religion nor is the only tool.
Someone likes to spot no demand no supply whiteout indicator, I dont want to spend my time finding those bars, i use indicator, some people use smart money concepts indicator to find the entry triggers after accumulation, some use VZA, some use, Open ranges with VSA, some use VSA for breakouts setups only.

so its not an issue, what i can tell you that if you give HIddenGap and Anotan or me, a simple chart with Price and volume, that will be enough to trade, but we all have our comfort in certain confirmations, so we use what we are comfortable with,

now Malcolm had a filter of London Open Range, with VSA, should we call him that he is not VSA trader ? or should he not allowed to post in his own group ?

Enjoy man, find what suits you and let others trade what they like.
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #36,436
  • Apr 14, 2025 3:45pm Apr 14, 2025 3:45pm
Quoting bluesoul
{quote} VSA is a Tool, VSA does not move the market, if someone is comfortable with only volume and chart to trade, thats fine, it can be done, and someone feels comfortable with adding anything from any concept or a tool(indicator) that is also fine. VSA doesn't stop anyone to that, Neither it is a religion nor is the only tool. Someone likes to spot no demand no supply whiteout indicator, I dont want to spend my time finding those bars, i use indicator, some people use smart money concepts indicator to find the entry triggers after accumulation,...
it pays well to be preoccupied with profits, profits with indicators are as good as profits without indicators
Make sure losses are small and profits are bigger!
  • #36,437
  • Apr 14, 2025 10:28pm Apr 14, 2025 10:28pm
GOLD, Charts M30 & H4 & H4 HVZs
Recent dip in the beginning of month extreme selling, followed by a weak accumulation near bottoms, window 1 delta reflects relative buying pressure, smaller net buying histo as compared to sell off.
Started rallying going up quite fast, on even on low volumes, and Big green bar just before the breakout of previous High has lower volume than previous 4-5 days volumes, it is the highest volume bar of the day itself, but shows huge delta followed by fading of Demand, in delta and volume as well.

On Me30 chart multiple no demand bars, confirmed by follow-up down moves, very high probability of distribution,

H4 HVZ chart, most probable scenario here, a trap up move and pullback to 3136 & 3098. Price may consolidate longer here.
Shorts on clear sign of weakness on lower TFS after a trap up move or test of highs.
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Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #36,438
  • Apr 14, 2025 11:26pm Apr 14, 2025 11:26pm
Trading requires discipline regardless of the strategy or style. However, Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) demands an even higher level of discipline because it includes discretionary elements.

While VSA has mechanical components — such as identifying stopping volume, no supply, or high-volume bars — interpreting context, intent, and timing often involves a degree of subjectivity. This makes it less rigid than fully mechanical systems like RSI or Stochastic-based strategies, which operate on fixed overbought/oversold levels.

Without strong discipline and a well-defined framework, it's easy to misread signals or act prematurely when trading VSA setups.

What do you think if you could have the luxury of pure mechanical VSA?
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #36,439
  • Apr 15, 2025 7:57am Apr 15, 2025 7:57am
Quoting bluesoul
{quote} VSA is a Tool....
I was there when VSA started on forexfactoy...it started with different thread, later Malcolm opened this one.

take care
  • #36,440
  • Apr 15, 2025 10:43am Apr 15, 2025 10:43am
EU, GU H1

after strong rallies Volume and Buyers exhaustion is visible.
Euro is in grinding downtrend against Pound in EG, Potential Euro Strength, (getting ready to for reversal to upside)

Possible EU and GU direction, Pound may take bigger retrace while Euro own strength, can hold and stay in consolidation against dollar while pound is dropping.

Currently its not clear, as Euro is showing clear weakness, if look at individual pairs. Both EU and GU have potential for retracement, shorts on clear weakness on M15, and break of currently formed distribution zones.
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
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