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  • #981
  • Jul 31, 2007 8:46am Jul 31, 2007 8:46am
Quoting leighsww
* Edited - I just took a look at my logs and here's what it shows (what is shown in RED is the IP address for the Quote server and where the connection fails)
"Meeting a brutal death"? Somebody has a sense of humor in the programming department, lol =P
lol, if you were a programmer you'd know that about 90% of us do that kind of thing ;-)

leigh, I understand your frustration and your willingness to figure out your problem (and apparently the problem lots of people are having...), but remember that you're working with a limited set of data. Remember that a ping is just a program on an open port that responds to requests, just like any other service, and that the order server is a completely separate program on another open port. The fact that it can't log you in means nothing about the machine itself being on, so ping can work while at the same time other servers on the same machine can fail.

That being said, these problems are exactly the reason why I got out of MBT. Superb spreads and overall good execution, but ****** software that would randomly fail to show open orders even on my demo was enough for me. Now, being a software engineer I must add that a program such as navigator (or MT4, or any charting/order software) is not an easy task, especially on the server side. However, that's their business, and such a thing should be reliable.
  • #982
  • Jul 31, 2007 10:18am Jul 31, 2007 10:18am
what kind of order type can I use to say:

I'll take the market price, or something roundabout that, but if it is too far away (and I specify how far), I'll pass.

I was reading that limits and stops just get converted to market when the price is reached, so in that sense they aren't really any safer than a market order, right?
  • #983
  • Jul 31, 2007 11:58am Jul 31, 2007 11:58am
Quoting ycomp
what kind of order type can I use to say:

I'll take the market price, or something roundabout that, but if it is too far away (and I specify how far), I'll pass.

I was reading that limits and stops just get converted to market when the price is reached, so in that sense they aren't really any safer than a market order, right?
Use a stop limit. Example:

Price is at 1.3500. You want to buy when it hits 1.3550, but not if it somehow slips all the way up to 1.3580, right?

Buy Stop Limit. Stop price: 1.3550 | Limit price: 1.3555

This says, "I want to buy at 1.3550, but guarantee me a price of 1.3555 or lower."

This will place a limit order at 1.3555 when the stop order is hit at 1.3550, so you will have a maximum of 5 pips slippage.

Hope this helps.
  • #984
  • Jul 31, 2007 12:08pm Jul 31, 2007 12:08pm
Quoting JoshDance
Remember that a ping is just a program on an open port that responds to requests, just like any other service, and that the order server is a completely separate program on another open port. The fact that it can't log you in means nothing about the machine itself being on, so ping can work while at the same time other servers on the same machine can fail.
Ah, that's very interesting. I've help out at a web hosting forum and we've always asked people to do tracerts whenever they can't access their sites. So, I'm used to doing that whenever a server can't be accessed (if there's nothing wrong with the server since others can access it) to see if the problem is with the accessing computer's connection (or a hub along the way).

Also, since tazmet mentioned in his post that his forex broker wanted to ping to his computer to see if he's having connection problems with his "now-you-see-it, now-you-don't" candlestick issue, I figured I'd better have proof that it's not my computer's connection. I did the tracert before I saw that others had posted and were having the same problem, lol.

Anyway, thanks for informing me about that

Oh gawd! I hope I don't have to go looking for another broker. All I can say is, it's gotta be an ECN broker!
  • #985
  • Jul 31, 2007 12:12pm Jul 31, 2007 12:12pm
Quoting leighsww
Oh gawd! I hope I don't have to go looking for another broker. All I can say is, it's gotta be an ECN broker!
Well, I'm not going live until next spring when I can fund my account with 40K or so, so hopefully Omega will have come out by then, gotten rave reviews, fixed all their crap, and EFX is the only logical broker to go with. That's my hope :-)

But in all honesty, forex in its current unregulated, newborn state is quite likely to give you few choices that are truly competitive. Sort of like how many American-made automobiles never focused on things like gas economy, long lifetimes, and so on, until rivals forced them to do so.
  • #986
  • Jul 31, 2007 12:56pm Jul 31, 2007 12:56pm
Quoting shrike
I dont know if your problems are related to that, but MB/Efx sometimes clear out IP adresses that are logged in for a long time without activity and mark them as "unfriendly". Support can fix such a situation. This information comes from neoticker support, i have never experienced such a situation, but i could see how this is problematic for autotrading bots, who lurk for entries for a long time and dont trade often.
Ah, I don't know how I missed your post the first time, but this is really good info, shrike. Thanks!

Okay, I for one am logged in practically all the time. I leave my positions overnight most of the time and my computer is always logged in.

If what you are saying may be the case then I guess it's better to just log out and re-login the next day. I use TTO's anyway, so I'm never not covered and since the TTO's are triggered on the MBT server-side (not our computers) I guess there really isn't any reason not to logout.

How about the others who have experienced last night's downage? Are you guys also always logged in like me? That way we can assess if that's the reason it only happened to a few of us.

When I had called the trade desk last night (the number Stan gave --> (866) 558-3342), the guy just asked for my username and it was fixed in an instant, so it's gotta be something with our individual accounts and not a server issue, otherwise if the latter was the case, they would have had everybody fixed at the same time.
  • #987
  • Jul 31, 2007 1:30pm Jul 31, 2007 1:30pm
Quoting leighsww
Ah, I don't know how I missed your post the first time, but this is really good info, shrike. Thanks!

Okay, I for one am logged in practically all the time. I leave my positions overnight most of the time and my computer is always logged in.

If what you are saying may be the case then I guess it's better to just log out and re-login the next day. I use TTO's anyway, so I'm never not covered and since the TTO's are triggered on the MBT server-side (not our computers) I guess there really isn't any reason not to logout.

How about the others who have experienced last night's downage? Are you guys also always logged in like me? That way we can assess if that's the reason it only happened to a few of us.

When I had called the trade desk last night (the number Stan gave --> (866) 558-3342), the guy just asked for my username and it was fixed in an instant, so it's gotta be something with our individual accounts and not a server issue, otherwise if the latter was the case, they would have had everybody fixed at the same time.
I am not always logged on. As a matter of fact, last night I had just turned on the computer as was attempting to log on. I was not booted off or anything like that.
  • #988
  • Jul 31, 2007 1:33pm Jul 31, 2007 1:33pm
Quoting Stan
I am not always logged on. As a matter of fact, last night I had just turned on the computer as was attempting to log on. I was not booted off or anything like that.
LOL, okay well there goes that theory out the window.

Sooooo, have you guys then been asking too many questions (like me ?!! (we gotta find a common denominator here)
  • #989
  • Jul 31, 2007 2:28pm Jul 31, 2007 2:28pm
Quoting leighsww
Ah, I don't know how I missed your post the first time, but this is really good info, shrike. Thanks!

Okay, I for one am logged in practically all the time. I leave my positions overnight most of the time and my computer is always logged in.

If what you are saying may be the case then I guess it's better to just log out and re-login the next day. I use TTO's anyway, so I'm never not covered and since the TTO's are triggered on the MBT server-side (not our computers) I guess there really isn't any reason not to logout.

How about the others who have experienced last night's downage? Are you guys also always logged in like me? That way we can assess if that's the reason it only happened to a few of us.

When I had called the trade desk last night (the number Stan gave --> (866) 558-3342), the guy just asked for my username and it was fixed in an instant, so it's gotta be something with our individual accounts and not a server issue, otherwise if the latter was the case, they would have had everybody fixed at the same time.
I always turn my platform off and bring it back up for the next session, so I don't have the stale IP issue. I was down for about 20 minutes last night in terms of quotes (my charts are separate because EFX doesn't have them, which was a bonus in this case, though I'd rather they get their own charts going), but I always keep complete orders in the system (either stops once I'm in a position or "entry + exit" if I'm waiting for one), and their order server didn't go down, so I wouldn't have had any issues either way. I never understand the crazy people that trade manually at the market with no stops. Even if platforms don't go down, forex can move too fast for that sort of trading. Whatever the issue was last night, no impact here. My orders did execute fine, too, throughout the session.

Love the note from someone above about programmer jargon in the log files. Twisted senses of humor, those people.
FXChant Singing the World of Forex
  • #990
  • Jul 31, 2007 2:41pm Jul 31, 2007 2:41pm
Quoting fxchant
I always turn my platform off and bring it back up for the next session, so I don't have the stale IP issue. I was down for about 20 minutes last night in terms of quotes (my charts are separate because EFX doesn't have them, which was a bonus in this case, though I'd rather they get their own charts going)
Yes, same here where only the Quotes server was down for me (and I would assume for everyone else, as well).

Ah, I think we all would have eventually been resolved then, if you didn't make the call to support to have the reset done, yet yours started working after 20 minutes.

At least we know that it wasn't the stale IP issue (from both yours and Stan's posts).
  • #991
  • Jul 31, 2007 2:42pm Jul 31, 2007 2:42pm
Hi all ~

Please do me a favor. Obviously, I work throughout the day here in the US, so I’m asleep in the European session, at least part of it. If you experience any issues with connectivity of a live account (something that lasts more than a second), please e-mail me at [email protected]. Send your name, account ID, and where you are in the world. I will collect the information in the morning. The problem is that we are not experiencing global outages, so we are trying to track the problems. There has been a pick up in the “Someone has logged in as you” messages, along with quote server disconnects, over the last couple of days, and we need to pinpoint where the problem is globally because the system is fine. One thing to note…if you use a chart service like e-Signal, there are no gaps in the data last night using a quote like EUR@TDFX A0-FX, which is our quote feed. There have been times where the quote servers go down for an hour and that data is a gap in the chart. If you look last night, there are no gaps in the charts, but yet some people seemed to experience a quote feed problem when logging in, and this led to the inability to enter new orders because pricing wasn’t available. Existing orders were fine. So what we need is to pinpoint the location of the problem out there and that can be best accomplished if you e-mail me with the above information if anything happens again. Please state the TIME of the outage.
  • #992
  • Jul 31, 2007 3:20pm Jul 31, 2007 3:20pm
  •  tazmet
  • | Joined Jun 2007 | Status: Gold Member - Solid Gold Baby! | 47 Posts
It happened again. Now, I have to imagine all of the opportunities I lost out on because of this rediculous problem. By the way I should let everyone know I'm not talking about EFX but another broker but was thrilled to see that someone else had the same issue with EFX. I did the ping and tracert right as I was having the problem. Tracert completed with no timeouts. Ping completed with 0 loss. I sent the screenshot of the tracert to tech support. I'll let you know what they say this time.



Quote
The next time it happens to you, do a ping and tracert on your end instead of waiting to have them do it. The tracert will be more detailed in giving you
If your connection is fine, you will not get any "timeouts" and the ping/tracert will complete.

If you don't get any timeouts, then I can't see how it's your connection that is causing the weird data glitch, as they are stating
My business model Get pips => Keep Pips => Repeat
  • #993
  • Jul 31, 2007 3:31pm Jul 31, 2007 3:31pm
Quoting tazmet
but was thrilled to see that someone else had the same issue with EFX.
Gee, thanks a lot there buddy, lol!! http://leighswishingwell.com/lp/emotes/whip.gif You could have left out the "thrilled" part, cuz I'm surely not "thrilled" by it :

Quoting tazmet
I did the ping and tracert right as I was having the problem. Tracert completed with no timeouts. Ping completed with 0 loss. I sent the screenshot of the tracert to tech support. I'll let you know what they say this time.
Well, they surely can't say it's your connection then, by golly

I sure hope you are signed up with a U.S. broker, because at least if you find they are doing unethical practices, you can report them to the NFA. You might not have that means of support with non-U.S. brokers, I'm afraid.
  • #994
  • Jul 31, 2007 3:52pm Jul 31, 2007 3:52pm
hi Justin ,,

can you explain to us what is this document refers to and what is better for customers to sign it or not ?

regards
  • #995
  • Jul 31, 2007 3:54pm Jul 31, 2007 3:54pm
  •  tazmet
  • | Joined Jun 2007 | Status: Gold Member - Solid Gold Baby! | 47 Posts
Sorry, I couldn't resist a bit of sarcasm

Well, it is a major US broker with substantial capital. In any event, I can't imagine
they'd try to cheat me on a demo account. What could they possibly have
to gain? Unless they already decided they don't want me as a client.


Quoting leighsww
Gee, thanks a lot there buddy, lol!! http://leighswishingwell.com/lp/emotes/whip.gif You could have left out the "thrilled" part, cuz I'm surely not "thrilled" by it :



Well, they surely can't say it's your connection then, by golly

I sure hope you are signed up with a U.S. broker, because at least if you find they are doing unethical practices, you can report them to the NFA. You might not have that means of support with non-U.S. brokers, I'm afraid.
My business model Get pips => Keep Pips => Repeat
  • #996
  • Jul 31, 2007 4:03pm Jul 31, 2007 4:03pm
Quoting JoshDance
Well, I'm not going live until next spring when I can fund my account with 40K or so
LOL, are you like an "analytical" type? :

Hey, just put $5K down, so you can get your toes wet, at least .

My husband wanted me to fund my account with more than $5K, but I told him that I wanted to go slow and to build up my account to where I then start using "house" money to trade with, lol (yeah, I used to play BlackJack).

Putting in a lump sum like that would make me nervous, as it's not being stored/safe-kept at my own "house", lol. But, I guess if you're doing business with a reputable and sound company (which I hope EFX/MBT is), then you don't have that much to worry about in that department ... but, you never know, thus I rather play it safe and not have my own hard-earned money tied up that way, in that respect. If I end up losing my $5K, then I can just enter another $5K when the time comes. And if I lose that, I can either enter another $5K, or uhmmm, QUIT (if my strategies suck, lol)

How long have you been trading demos, anyway?
  • #997
  • Jul 31, 2007 4:15pm Jul 31, 2007 4:15pm
Quoting tazmet
Sorry, I couldn't resist a bit of sarcasm
LOL, I had a good laugh when you said it, so no worries (hey, I've got a bit of a sense of humor, as well, even though I'm not a total geek like JoshDance, lol).

Quoting tazmet
Well, it is a major US broker with substantial capital. In any event, I can't imagine they'd try to cheat me on a demo account. What could they possibly have to gain? Unless they already decided they don't want me as a client.
Oh, I missed your mention of it being a "demo" account if you noted that earlier on.

"Demo" accounts are usually not very reliable/trustworthy, although I'm trading "live" and this has happened to me (but only twice, mind you), so who the heck knows, lol?

I'd find out if it's happening to people who trade "live" who use your same broker and charting. If this forum doesn't have anyone, you might need to scour the Internet at other forums to check there.
  • #998
  • Jul 31, 2007 10:31pm Jul 31, 2007 10:31pm
Quoting leighsww
LOL, are you like an "analytical" type? :

Hey, just put $5K down, so you can get your toes wet, at least .

My husband wanted me to fund my account with more than $5K, but I told him that I wanted to go slow and to build up my account to where I then start using "house" money to trade with, lol (yeah, I used to play BlackJack).

Putting in a lump sum like that would make me nervous, as it's not being stored/safe-kept at my own "house", lol. But, I guess if you're doing business with a reputable and sound company (which I hope EFX/MBT is), then you don't have that much to worry about in that department ... but, you never know, thus I rather play it safe and not have my own hard-earned money tied up that way, in that respect. If I end up losing my $5K, then I can just enter another $5K when the time comes. And if I lose that, I can either enter another $5K, or uhmmm, QUIT (if my strategies suck, lol)

How long have you been trading demos, anyway?
I've been in the forex world all of 4-5 months. I've only started my first REAL demo a week or two ago though (logging everything on FF, screenshots, journal, making it as real as possible).

The problem with starting an account with only $5K USD is that it starts you off extremely undercapitalized. Sure, if you use good MM then it should in theory be the same as a $50K account, as long as you can use partial lots (and only partial minis at that with only a $5K size!) and a sound R:R system. But one of the biggest reasons most new traders fail is undercapitalization. They just don't have the funds to weather the drawdowns that all traders, especially new ones, have.

That's the whole purpose of demo-ing for a full year. If I can do well (well in my first year would be to have a 50% total return, and a smooth equity curve... heck, even breaking even is better than most do in a year!), then trading with 50 grand should be no different, as long as I have developed the mental strength and risk awareness that I hopefully will develop.
  • #999
  • Jul 31, 2007 11:30pm Jul 31, 2007 11:30pm
Quoting JoshDance
But one of the biggest reasons most new traders fail is undercapitalization
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there, my friend

My feelings are that most people fail whether they are new or not, and whether they have $100 or $1,000,000 to trade with, is due to lack of discipline and letting their emotions intervene with their trades.

When my husband was trading Options, he met a guy who said he started out with $60K and blew most of it in little over a month. That is scary! AND he was using "borrowed" money. Yikes!! He was really depressed and stressed out at that point and was looking for ways to improve his trading strategies. Unfortunately, it wasn't his strategies that weren't working for him, it was his lack of discipline that was sabotaging him.

He was gambling rather than trading, cuz he didn't have any discipline with sticking to the rules of trading strategies/systems ... basically, getting out of a losing trade when you are supposed to, and getting out of a winning trade when you are supposed to.

When he saw his trades going against him, he kept letting it go thinking it was going to turn around at any time. When he saw his trades going the right way, he kept letting it ride and didn't take his profits, then it would reverse on him. He let his emotions run his trades which is the recipe for disaster

I don't believe the amount of capital you start with determines whether you will make money or not. I would rather build up my earnings slowly and stay in the game longer, possibly getting to the point of exponentially doubling it at some point when I can start using "house" money to do it.

LOL, I told you I used to play BlackJack. With BJ, if you follow the strategies (when to stand, hit, double-up, etc. depending on what you have and what the dealer is showing) and you stick to those rules and never deviate from them no matter what, your winnings will out-number your losses, every time.

Anyway, enough about BJ, but it's the same thing as with trading, you have to stick to certain rules of the game and that's what helps gain you more success at winning and especially with controlling your losses, not how much money you start out with, in my opinion.

Now take W.D. Gann for example ... he was able to make $25,000 profit with a $300 account in only three months, and $12,000 profit with a $150 account in only 30 days.

So you see why I don't think winning or losing has much to do with the amount of capital you start out with?

Sure he might have made bigger money faster if he had more capital vested, but then again, if his strategy didn't work, he could have lost HUGE, as well. I'm sure there's a lot of traders out there who started out with a $50K+ account and lost it all or close to it (like my husband's acquaintance did).

This is why, to me, it's totally about being disciplined and being unemotional when it comes to trading successfully and yes, definitely having the right strategies and MM in place.

Anyway, that's my opinion

I'll drop by on your Journal and take a read of it when I get a chance. I wish you good and successful trading, JoshDance!
  • #1,000
  • Aug 1, 2007 2:35am Aug 1, 2007 2:35am
Quoting leighsww
Now take W.D. Gann for example ... he was able to make $25,000 profit with a $300 account in only three months, and $12,000 profit with a $150 account in only 30 days.

So you see why I don't think winning or losing has much to do with the amount of capital you start out with?
...
This is why, to me, it's totally about being disciplined and being unemotional when it comes to trading successfully and yes, definitely having the right strategies and MM in place.
I agree that a good system is important, as you must be able to consistently make good trades. But, even the best systems, and the best traders, have bad trades, and can have several of them in a row. That's why drawdown is so important, and why it's important to have enough capital on hand for that string of losers that WILL happen.

If the MM system uses a fixed %R setup (i.e., you risk 2% on each trade), then you're right, you'll always lose 2% on a loss, or make X% on a win. But most beginners foolishly don't do this, and on top of that most have a standard account with only a $10K or so account balance, and they don't understand that they should not be trading in whole lot sizes, but using a %R MM system instead. In short, they spend so much time looking at useless indicators and crap that they forget their most important asset--their account capital. Then they get a string of losers, and before you know it, they have a 50% drawdown, which means they have to make 100% just to get to breakeven. And it happens to smart traders too, which is the scary part.

At any rate, this is WAY off topic... sorry for the rambling.

Oh, and you're welcome to stop by my journal at any time! :-)
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