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vsa with Malcolm

  • #36,401
  • Feb 11, 2025 12:09pm Feb 11, 2025 12:09pm
Quoting Anotan
VSA works very well, the biggest thing is to keep your expectations in check and to get out of bad trades quickly. Seriously if you're short and you're seeing up bars on increasing volume, do you want to remain short? Emphasis added
I know you know your stuff, but for the sake of the less skilled, the phrase "but not excessive" should be added. Accordingly, it should read "..on increasing, but not excessive, volume...."

A healthy up move will have healthy (increasing, but not excessive) volume with it.

To your larger point, it is easy to get back in. Get out and reassess. Don't fail prey to the notion that a loss is not a loss until realized.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #36,402
  • Feb 11, 2025 12:21pm Feb 11, 2025 12:21pm
Quoting belliott71
. Maybe I can add some value to this thread in the near future.
I am of the belief that anybody that posts with the intention to learn adds value to the thread. One doesn't have to be at Anotan's level to add value. One just has to be willing to put their trades or analysis up for thoughtful criticism.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #36,403
  • Feb 17, 2025 3:21pm Feb 17, 2025 3:21pm
Guys now that you are talking about volume coming on up bars after the bottom but not being excessive.

What is your opinion on tests and no supply bars

What I mean is that I read a post from pres78 that he was not all convinced about low volume tests, no supply bars etc he mentions that at the end price to move up needed a push, so he mentioned something that made sense to me that is look for the same thing but with volume instead without it, for example many times after a no supply you see an up bar that has even less volume and people don't mind that and take the trade because is after a no supply, what he mentioned is that the up bar needs to have volume, for it be interested in prices moving up, the same thing he mentioned with the test, he mentioned that he prefers them with good volume since it shows that the smart money were the ones to reject the price

And it goes in line with what you guys are talking, after a bottom you need volume or activity for the price to go up and it goes against all the visa look for no volume look for no activity and so on and it makes a lot of sense

The same goes for the short side

Please guys your opinion will be appreciated

Kind
Regards
  • #36,404
  • Feb 18, 2025 12:46pm Feb 18, 2025 12:46pm
Quoting Frag8383
...[M]any times after a no supply you see an up bar that has even less volume and people don't mind that and take the trade because is after a no supply, what he mentioned is that the up bar needs to have volume, for it be interested in prices moving up, the same thing he mentioned with the test, he mentioned that he prefers them with good volume since it shows that the smart money were the ones to reject the price..
Let's start with a definition first. A Test is defined as a successful test if the next interval is UP. Volume has no bearing on the validity of the Test. With that said, the ideal situation is the next interval is UP and volume is increasing. There are times, however, when the volume is decreasing on the interval immediately following the Test, but the volume increases on the next interval, which is also an UP bar. You want to see the smart money actively pushing prices higher. Sometimes it takes a couple of bars for the smart money to show themselves.

If the next interval is on decreasing volume, that would make it a No Demand. But not just any No Demand, it would be a "polar bear in Hawaii". You would expect to see another Test/No Supply or an UP bar on increasing volume. Tom talks about this situation in his book.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #36,405
  • Feb 19, 2025 8:11pm Feb 19, 2025 8:11pm
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} Let's start with a definition first. A Test is defined as a successful test if the next interval is UP. Volume has no bearing on the validity of the Test. With that said, the ideal situation is the next interval is UP and volume is increasing. There are times, however, when the volume is decreasing on the interval immediately following the Test, but the volume increases on the next interval, which is also an UP bar. You want to see the smart money actively pushing prices higher. Sometimes it takes a couple of bars for the smart money to...
HiddenGap over here just giving away gold.
  • #36,406
  • Feb 20, 2025 5:59am Feb 20, 2025 5:59am
weird trade..

So feb 17th was a holiday, usually I don't trade holiday volume plus looking at the chart the volume just looks off. But feb 18th responded very well to the highest volume bar so I took a chance.

I think my stop was something like 46 pips making this shy of a 5:1.
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  • #36,407
  • Feb 21, 2025 12:37am Feb 21, 2025 12:37am
Quick little scalp..

Usually with forex you'll see one or two days a week with a big move, while the other three or four days tend to be more range bound or whipsaw. Wednesday and Thursday we saw some nice moves, especially on JPY, which makes me think today will be more range bound.
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  • #36,408
  • Feb 24, 2025 2:41am Feb 24, 2025 2:41am
The bar that I fibbed isn't the highest volume bar of the day, but look at this spread and time of day. Unusual spread at that time of day means that professionals had to be active. 95% of the time I follow the highest volume bar of the day no matter the spread but something like this, how can you ignore it?

My stop was at the low of the fibbed bar, around 30 pips, so this trade is a hair of 3:1RR.
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  • #36,409
  • Feb 24, 2025 12:11pm Feb 24, 2025 12:11pm
Quoting Anotan
The bar that I fibbed isn't the highest volume bar of the day, but look at this spread and time of day. Unusual spread at that time of day means that professionals had to be active. 95% of the time I follow the highest volume bar of the day no matter the spread but something like this, how can you ignore it? My stop was at the low of the fibbed bar, around 30 pips, so this trade is a hair of 3:1RR. [Emphasis Added]
Now, this is gold.

Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) is both art and science. We start with the science side that tells us to FIB the highest volume bar regardless of spread. Most of the time this will be sufficient in order to create the "playing field" (aka the Trigger Number Matrix). However, experience and natural trading skills will at times lead one into the art side

Volume is activity. Range can also at times be a de facto measure of activity. With such a wide range and high, but not the highest, volume with a close in the middle of the range and the next bar UP, it is clear that the Smart Money was active on this interval.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #36,410
  • Feb 25, 2025 5:07pm Feb 25, 2025 5:07pm
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} Now, this is gold. Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) is both art and science. We start with the science side that tells us to FIB the highest volume bar regardless of spread. Most of the time this will be sufficient in order to create the "playing field" (aka the Trigger Number Matrix). However, experience and natural trading skills will at times lead one into the art side Volume is activity. Range can also at times be a de facto measure of activity. With such a wide range and high, but not the highest, volume with a close in the middle of the...
Hi HiddenGap and everyone,

I would like to ask you a question, I’m happy for everyine to chip in and I’m just asking him since everyone uses VSA with his owns twist but he is like a VSA encyclopedia

When you have any sign of strength, or weakness the same will apply but Im going to talk only about longs to simplify.

When you have SOS you want to wait for the next candle to see if is up and confirms the strength or down. That is very common and standard in VSA I do it myself and considered it very important.

If you have a selling climax, stopping volume or whichever signal to be confirmed the next candle needs to be up, so far so good, but what is your opinion if the confirmation candle has more volume than the SOS.

Many people mention that bigger volume on the confirmation candle is not good because there is still supply around and to have a up bar to confirm it took a lot of effort and that is why the big volume and set ups are more likely to fail.

But you could also look at it in the sense that smart money could not accumulate all the wanted on the way down and the bought the remaining supply available and that is why the confirmation candle is on big volume, the price has still not run from them and they are ok purchasing before it goes higher.

I personally I like that the SOS is the higher volume, but the other point has logic and I do not know if I’m missing something,

What is your take; in your experience does it really matter?

Please guys let me know what you think

Thanks
Kind regards
  • #36,411
  • Feb 25, 2025 10:02pm Feb 25, 2025 10:02pm
Quoting Frag8383
{quote} Hi HiddenGap and everyone, I would like to ask you a question, I’m happy for everyine to chip in and I’m just asking him since everyone uses VSA with his owns twist but he is like a VSA encyclopedia When you have any sign of strength, or weakness the same will apply but Im going to talk only about longs to simplify. When you have SOS you want to wait for the next candle to see if is up and confirms the strength or down. That is very common and standard in VSA I do it myself and considered it very important. If you have a selling climax,...
The short answer is go to a higher time frame.

When strength/weakness appears, it first appears on a small time frame, as the setup develops you see that strength on larger time frames. So if you're seeing stopping volume on a down bar but seeing continued high volume on the next up bar.. it could be that professionals are still in the process of creating stopping volume. Going up a time frame will give the setup more time to develop and hopefully give you the confirmation you're looking for.
  • #36,412
  • Feb 26, 2025 1:15am Feb 26, 2025 1:15am
Quoting Frag8383
{quote} Hi HiddenGap and everyone, I would like to ask you a question, I’m happy for everyine to chip in and I’m just asking him since everyone uses VSA with his owns twist but he is like a VSA encyclopedia When you have any sign of strength, or weakness the same will apply but Im going to talk only about longs to simplify. When you have SOS you want to wait for the next candle to see if is up and confirms the strength or down. That is very common and standard in VSA I do it myself and considered it very important. If you have a selling climax,...
it isn t good cos if ur in a bear market for instance, u wanna buy only if selling climax confirms first on a htf. if the candle that confirms has higher volume just look at the effort vs result. what i do is switch to lowr tfs to see if that vol is from the high or low.
often times u might have a candle pattern with the volume associated say 1hr tf weakness, but when u go to a 5m chart the vol is on the lows suggesting buying.
As a rule i have u never wanna see more vol on the candle that confirms. hope this helps. cheers
  • #36,413
  • Feb 26, 2025 12:43pm Feb 26, 2025 12:43pm
Quoting Frag8383
If you have a selling climax, stopping volume or whichever signal to be confirmed the next candle needs to be up, so far so good, but what is your opinion if the confirmation candle has more volume than the SOS. Many people mention that bigger volume on the confirmation candle is not good because there is still supply around and to have a up bar to confirm it took a lot of effort and that is why the big volume and set ups are more likely to fail.
Great question and I can't wait to read the opinions all who jump in and take a stab at it.

From my perspective, there are a lot of things going on here. When the Ultra High Volume SOS appears, it needs the next interval to be UP to confirm it. Remember, what is being confirmed is that the previous interval (with the Ultra High Volume) contained buying, despite the fact that it was a DOWN bar.

If the confirmation interval is UP and has more volume, there are a couple of things that could be happening:

1. The higher volume UP bar signals that there's still a lot of supply left in the market. This would be confirmed with the next interval being DOWN.
2. Supply was present but it was swamped by Demand, hence the UP close. There should be an immediate (1-3 intervals) Test. If that Test fails, there is more downside to go.

I have to reiterate my bias towards trend trading. The confirmed SOS (next interval UP) is not a trade signal. The ideal signal comes once there is a change in trend. The SOS only alerts you to the possibility that the current trend is coming to an end. Therefore, I would argue that it is highly crucial to have a definition of trend that you are comfortable with using. For example, if the confirmation interval closed above a 20 EMA, that would suggest a trend change. What you would then want is to see the Test in a rising market. Or, you might use multiple time frames to define trend. If the SOS is on a lower time frame, waiting to see the higher time frame(s) change would be more prudent.

I guess what I am trying to say is, despite the fact that VSA can spot bottoms, the safest place for the majority of retail traders to get in happens after there is a change in trend. Ironically, in this case you would be hoping the higher volume on the confirmation meant the presence of more supply. That's because the trend is DOWN and you should already be short. The SOS was just a signal to tighten up the stop. But not go long.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #36,414
  • Mar 11, 2025 9:21am Mar 11, 2025 9:21am
You know what they say.. trading isn't necessarily easy, but it can be simple.

Previous day's highest volume bar at the low of the day? Yes
Price break above the high of the highest volume bar? Yes
Price return to the mid level of the HVB and test out? Yes
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  • #36,415
  • Mar 11, 2025 10:05am Mar 11, 2025 10:05am
I would think if you're long on UCad, you would want to close here.
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  • #36,416
  • Mar 11, 2025 12:33pm Mar 11, 2025 12:33pm
there are Principles to Follow,
Patience, Persistence, Strategy, Harness the power of Compounding,
Time
here is a detailed video,
i hope this will help.
Inserted Video
Don't compare your Trades with Others
  • #36,417
  • Mar 11, 2025 12:43pm Mar 11, 2025 12:43pm
Quoting Anotan
Previous day's highest volume bar at the low of the day? Yes Price break above the high of the highest volume bar? Yes Price return to the mid level of the HVB and test out? Yes {image}


For all those who do not want to read this extraordinary thread from the beginning, this is Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) in a nutshell. Just a few things to add:

1. Previous day's highest volume (H1 chart) can be replaced with the most recent highest volume bar of the chart of your choice.
2. While one can attempt to catch tops and bottoms, the highest probability trades are always in the direction of the current trend (i.e. Long in up trends and Short in down trends).
3. Ideally, you want the entry signal touching one of the trigger lines, rather than it being "in space".
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #36,418
  • Edited Mar 13, 2025 12:02pm Mar 12, 2025 12:04pm | Edited Mar 13, 2025 12:02pm
Quoting Anotan
You know what they say.. trading isn't necessarily easy, but it can be simple. Previous day's highest volume bar at the low of the day? Yes Price break above the high of the highest volume bar? Yes Price return to the mid level of the HVB and test out? Yes [Emphasis added]


For all those who do not want to read this extraordinary thread from the beginning, this is Volume Spread Analysis (VSA) in a nutshell. As Anotan likes to say, " Volume at Volume". I would be a bit more precise and say, "Lack of Volume at Volume".

We're looking for Ultra High Volume, which connotes professional activity; either buying or selling. Then we want to see price move away from the ultra high volume bar followed by a retracement back into the area of the Ultra High Volume. This time, however, we want to see little to almost no volume. Which connotes that the professionals are not interested in taking prices in the direction of the retracement. In other words, we're looking for No Demands to get short and Tests/No Supplies to get Long.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #36,419
  • Mar 15, 2025 6:48pm Mar 15, 2025 6:48pm
Quoting 1odi
{quote} kinda yeah, up bars on increased vol is how weakness comes in, if i see up bars on medium spread/vol then i d wanna get out
Hi 1odi

I have mentioned that I also use the AR rally as entry line, or last pint of supply after a selling climax stopping volume and so on, currently I do not change the line, my question is if you do and which circumstances?
I don't change it because I do not want to complicate things and over thing but I will like what you think since you trade same way.

On the attached picture the line is the automatic rally or last point of supply, but then you see many spikes above it and not breaking them until it finally touched the original AR and make a rally.

I would like your take
Please forget about if volume is below and so on I pick the example because of the many spikes without breaking and rallying was perfect for what I'm asking

Thanks
Kind regards
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  • #36,420
  • Edited 8:00am Mar 18, 2025 7:36am | Edited 8:00am
Quoting Frag8383
{quote} Hi 1odi I have mentioned that I also use the AR rally as entry line, or last pint of supply after a selling climax stopping volume and so on, currently I do not change the line, my question is if you do and which circumstances? I don't change it because I do not want to complicate things and over thing but I will like what you think since you trade same way. On the attached picture the line is the automatic rally or last point of supply, but then you see many spikes above it and not breaking them until it finally touched the original AR...
Sry for the late reply.
Volume when trading VSA is all that matters, cos imo u wanna sell after weakness and buy after strenght. so u can only count an AR after a climax and in this case if u have stopping volume. also u need a low volume break of the AR, cos that s the first test for sellers. if volume increases and u have a rejection then adjust the AR.
Ussually if the AR breaks on low vol, u ll get a test and a nice mark up soon after (depending on the session that ur in). if it doesn t do that and just comes back below the AR and sits there on low vol, get out of the trade cos odds are it s gonna retest the low. Best AR trades have a low vol test and rejection, not starting to range above and below it. hope this helps. cheers
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