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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #181
  • Edited 11:51am Nov 29, 2006 10:51am | Edited 11:51am
Hi Justin,

I know EFX doesn't use MetaTrader for trading, and I can certainly understand why.

But, is it possible to use it for charts, to simply match with your prices?

I have a demo account with EFX and love MT's charts (I use them to test systems), but would like to have EFX's actual prices on the charts for more accurate signals!

Any way to do that?

TIA
  • #182
  • Nov 29, 2006 11:03am Nov 29, 2006 11:03am
Quoting fxdm1
Thanks for the reply, but I have tried entering a market order with the currency pair selected but I always get a confirmation screen. I have looked at the preference tab and I cannot see anything about one click execution.

Am I missing something?
I have figured it out now. You have to change the preferences on the EFX Navigator and these are used in Forex Pro.
  • #183
  • Dec 1, 2006 11:54am Dec 1, 2006 11:54am
does efx allow unlimited very short term scalping? meaning 5 minutes or less. some ecns claim this but sometimes tell you to stop if you do it too much. i'm talking about 10-20 trades a day where profit may average 3 pips or so. will i run into any problems?
  • #184
  • Dec 1, 2006 11:59am Dec 1, 2006 11:59am
I never received a response to my emailed question, so, perhaps I'll get a response here.

I placed an order on the EURUSD 2 days ago. At the time, I used a stop limit sell order. My price was 43 on the stop and 39 or so on the limit. The idea being to sell when the price hits 43, but not if it skips below 39.

As soon as I executed the order, it was filled as a market order. I checked the bid on the EUR and it was 46.

So, my question is, can orders get executed at prices below or above what's being displayed in the screen?

stockwet
  • #185
  • Dec 1, 2006 11:59am Dec 1, 2006 11:59am
Quoting ProdiG
does efx allow unlimited very short term scalping? meaning 5 minutes or less. some ecns claim this but sometimes tell you to stop if you do it too much. i'm talking about 10-20 trades a day where profit may average 3 pips or so. will i run into any problems?
Hi ProdiG ~

All trading styles are encouraged, including scalping! The trading style you choose is your decision and we will not interfere.

Good luck!
  • #186
  • Dec 1, 2006 12:32pm Dec 1, 2006 12:32pm
Quoting stockwet
I never received a response to my emailed question, so, perhaps I'll get a response here.

I placed an order on the EURUSD 2 days ago. At the time, I used a stop limit sell order. My price was 43 on the stop and 39 or so on the limit. The idea being to sell when the price hits 43, but not if it skips below 39.

As soon as I executed the order, it was filled as a market order. I checked the bid on the EUR and it was 46.

So, my question is, can orders get executed at prices below or above what's being displayed in the screen?

stockwet
Hi stockwet ~

It would be best if you contacted me directly ([email protected]) so I can walk you through the trade over the phone. If the EURUSD bid was 46 and you set a stop limit with a stop at 43 and a limit at 39 and hit sell, then you should not have been executed, and I haven't heard of any glitches in the system. The best thing to do would be to contact me so we can get on the phone and make sure that this order is being placed properly.
  • #187
  • Dec 1, 2006 7:43pm Dec 1, 2006 7:43pm
Quoting In2Blues
Hi Justin,

I know EFX doesn't use MetaTrader for trading, and I can certainly understand why.

But, is it possible to use it for charts, to simply match with your prices?

I have a demo account with EFX and love MT's charts (I use them to test systems), but would like to have EFX's actual prices on the charts for more accurate signals!

Any way to do that?

TIA
I am in the same boat as In2Blues and was wondering what I could use for data feed for MT4 that would be a close resemblance to the quotes from EFXGroup. As I am going to open a live account within the next week or so... Any suggestions?
  • #188
  • Dec 2, 2006 7:30pm Dec 2, 2006 7:30pm
Justin,

I'd like to make a suggestion that I don't think will go anywhere, but, I hope it does.

I believe that EFX Group has a great opportunity in this market. However, I think you really, really need to re-evaluate your pricing structure. I don't mind paying commissions to work with your platform. I think you have a great concept. But, I see 3 major flaws with your pricing:

1. Pricing is too complex. Understanding the true cost of commissions requires a great deal of guesswork. It requires people to use complex calculations to determine their true trading cost.
2. Pricing is too expensive for some currencies. It kills me to pay $18 RT commission on a single lot of GBPUSD.
3. Pricing is variable across currencies. Because of the pricing structure, I find myself shying away from certain currencies because of value. This causes me to not take trades I would take for certain currencies, undermining your revenue stream.

I would highly recommend that you move to a fixed transaction commission structure. Charging $10 RT per trade, per lot is reasonable for most of us. We calculate that as a 1 pip charge. It's easy to figure out and I would trade more currencies, more often. As it is now, I'll only use your platform to trade some currencies, and use my other broker accounts to trade the expensive EFX currencies.

Regards,

stockwet
  • #189
  • Dec 2, 2006 7:45pm Dec 2, 2006 7:45pm
If there is no Meta Trader 4, then it's a no go for me.
Binary Options Trader
  • #190
  • Dec 3, 2006 6:15am Dec 3, 2006 6:15am
Quoting stockwet
Justin,

I'd like to make a suggestion that I don't think will go anywhere, but, I hope it does.

I believe that EFX Group has a great opportunity in this market. However, I think you really, really need to re-evaluate your pricing structure. I don't mind paying commissions to work with your platform. I think you have a great concept. But, I see 3 major flaws with your pricing:

1. Pricing is too complex. Understanding the true cost of commissions requires a great deal of guesswork. It requires people to use complex calculations to determine their true trading cost.
2. Pricing is too expensive for some currencies. It kills me to pay $18 RT commission on a single lot of GBPUSD.
3. Pricing is variable across currencies. Because of the pricing structure, I find myself shying away from certain currencies because of value. This causes me to not take trades I would take for certain currencies, undermining your revenue stream.

I would highly recommend that you move to a fixed transaction commission structure. Charging $10 RT per trade, per lot is reasonable for most of us. We calculate that as a 1 pip charge. It's easy to figure out and I would trade more currencies, more often. As it is now, I'll only use your platform to trade some currencies, and use my other broker accounts to trade the expensive EFX currencies.

Regards,

stockwet
I have to mostly agree with stockwet here. The variable pricing is a pain and on many currency the commission is just way too high.

While I don't find the commission hard to calculate at all, the round turn charge on crosses like the very popular pound are entirely too high. Unless the spread is 1 pip (which is only sometimes), you get a better deal from OandA or the brokers with 3 pip fixed spread.

I think most of us can live with the $10 RT per standard lot. However, that should be the absolute max.

I absolutely love the business model for MB/EFX. I think it is a huge step for Forex. However, this is a money decision and if soemone else is doing it better-faster-cheaper, that is where the customers will go.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #191
  • Dec 3, 2006 7:34am Dec 3, 2006 7:34am
Oh Please you are trading in the Forex and you find it hard to do simple math? for the retail when using a broker with 3 to 5 pip this would still be close to the same commissions 3 pip broker with one lot would be $60.00 rt pricing.

I am new to sForex but not having the extra dealing desk to work against me when trading would a welcome improvment.

efx group is trying to remove the middle man we now become the middle man with all the inside information with the banks. Welcome improvement for the retail trader as with ecns where introduced to us equity market more acess is always better for the retail investor.

Currently with fxsol the trading is great but with gbd/usd paying $100.00 rt
pip loss?

Please find it hard to do simple math!
  • #192
  • Dec 3, 2006 11:39am Dec 3, 2006 11:39am
Quoting Squirtmaker
Oh Please you are trading in the Forex and you find it hard to do simple math? for the retail when using a broker with 3 to 5 pip this would still be close to the same commissions 3 pip broker with one lot would be $60.00 rt pricing.

I am new to sForex but not having the extra dealing desk to work against me when trading would a welcome improvment.

efx group is trying to remove the middle man we now become the middle man with all the inside information with the banks. Welcome improvement for the retail trader as with ecns where introduced to us equity market more acess is always better for the retail investor.

Currently with fxsol the trading is great but with gbd/usd paying $100.00 rt
pip loss?

Please find it hard to do simple math!
Paying a 4 or 5 pip spread on the pound is just nuts. It is truly unique to retail forex that people will take that type of a spanking to get into a trade. If you are going to trade the GBP/USD regularly you are just throwing money away.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #193
  • Dec 3, 2006 11:58am Dec 3, 2006 11:58am
Clearly, you're not looking to make a good first impression here.

I'm glad that you're willing to pay so much to participate in Forex. As for me, I treat this like a business. It's not a "privilege" for me to trade at any forex brokerage - they must compete for my business like anyone else. I currently have 3 accounts and am happy to trade at any one of them. If I can get in at 1.5 pips at one, why would I choose to enter at 3-5 with another? I stand by my point that the commission structure reduces EFX Group's competitiveness in a market that is increasingly becoming price sensitive. I also stand by my point that doing complex calculations, such as determining your true commission cost on GBPJPY, CHFJPY, EURGBP at the same time while you have multiple signals firing in a fast moving market is not conducive to the majority of us day traders.


Quoting Squirtmaker
Oh Please you are trading in the Forex and you find it hard to do simple math? for the retail when using a broker with 3 to 5 pip this would still be close to the same commissions 3 pip broker with one lot would be $60.00 rt pricing.

I am new to sForex but not having the extra dealing desk to work against me when trading would a welcome improvment.

efx group is trying to remove the middle man we now become the middle man with all the inside information with the banks. Welcome improvement for the retail trader as with ecns where introduced to us equity market more acess is always better for the retail investor.

Currently with fxsol the trading is great but with gbd/usd paying $100.00 rt
pip loss?

Please find it hard to do simple math!
  • #194
  • Dec 4, 2006 9:39am Dec 4, 2006 9:39am
I have a live accout with EFX and do not find them to be more expensive. At worst, they are about the same, but more often than not they are less. For example, here are some side by side quotes I jotted down over the last few minutes:


USDJPY @ IBFX: Bid 115.51 Ask 115.54
USDJPY @ EFX: Bid 115.54 Ask 115.54 (0 spread)

USDCHF @ IBFX: Bid 1.1960 Ask 1.964
USDCHF @ EFX: Bid 1.964 Ask 1.965

USDGBP @ IBFX: Bid 1.9765 Ask 1.9769
USDGBP @ EFX: Bid 1.9765 Ask 1.9766

From the above quotes, it seems clear that even paying the RT commission at EFX you'd come out ahead. Additionally, there definitely seems to be a bias to "skew" the spread either towards the bid or ask depending on the pair. This is presumably how dealing desks are able to stack the cards a bit more in their favor. In the end, even if it it comes out that once in a while I'm paying a few cents more, to me the transparency and advantages of a non-dealing desk make it worthwhile.

All the best,

Michael
Michael fxgorilla
  • #195
  • Dec 4, 2006 12:41pm Dec 4, 2006 12:41pm
Quoting In2Blues
Hi Justin,

I know EFX doesn't use MetaTrader for trading, and I can certainly understand why.

But, is it possible to use it for charts, to simply match with your prices?

I have a demo account with EFX and love MT's charts (I use them to test systems), but would like to have EFX's actual prices on the charts for more accurate signals!

Any way to do that?

TIA
Hi TIA ~

Thanks for the question. We don’t do anything related to MT4. However, there is a third party writing our execution to the MT4 platform, so you can use their quotes and get our execution. The key point, however, and the reason that we won’t support the product, is that EA trades are triggered by the MT4 quote server and then executed on our system. Because MT4 quotes come from a deal desk, the quotes could be several pips away from ours, which could help or hurt you. But some people just want the execution to be on our system, so this is a temporary solution.

Sincerely,
  • #196
  • Dec 4, 2006 12:42pm Dec 4, 2006 12:42pm
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

For the questions about about the fees of trading, particularly to the questions Stockwet asked, let me offer the following:<o></o>

1) The commission structure is very straight forward. You pay $5 per 100,000 USD traded. That means that when you buy 10 minis of USDCHF, which is exactly $100,000 because the USD is the front of the pair, you pay $5. If you buy 10 minis on the EURUSD, this is actually a $133,000 transaction based on the current exchange rate, so the commission is closer to $7. <o></o>

2) Remember that forex is not “contract-based” like futures or stocks. We get charged by the banks providing liquidity based on the same scale, meaning our fees are based on per $100,000. Over time, commissions will drop as this type of platform becomes the “norm.”<o></o>

3) Note that most of the pairs that are more expensive to trade because the exchange rate is high tend to have wide spreads on a fixed spread system. In other words, the GBPUSD typically has a 5-pip spread, which is 10 pips round-trip. It is a more expensive pair to trade because 10 minis = $197,000 right now, and thus, the costs on our system are slightly higher.<o></o>

4) It should also be noted that from a trading perspective, the average ranges on that pair are much higher than the other pairs. I’m not offering you trading advice here, but when you realize that the GBPUSD had 210 pips of range on Friday and the EURUSD had 130 pips, and both pairs would be $10 per 10 minis per pip, not only is the GBPUSD more expensive and requires more money to trade, but it also has the wider range, which means more chance of movement. This is the reason that a lot of people prefer the GBPUSD. You pay about an extra $2 per $100,000 to trade the GBPUSD than the EURUSD, but it moved an extra 70 pips on Friday, for example.<o></o>

5) Again, the biggest key to using a platform like ours is to not have the deal desk manipulating quotes against you and to be able to post your own bids and offers. We believe many active traders find those advantages to be significant, but the costs for now are what they are.
  • #197
  • Dec 4, 2006 1:43pm Dec 4, 2006 1:43pm
Justin,

Can you explain why you say that other brokers charge 10 pips on the Pound round turn? I'm not following why you think the spread is paid twice. You buy on the ask and sell back on the bid.

Thanks.
Visit my journal here.
  • #198
  • Dec 4, 2006 2:10pm Dec 4, 2006 2:10pm
Quoting Rosscub
Justin,

Can you explain why you say that other brokers charge 10 pips on the Pound round turn? I'm not following why you think the spread is paid twice. You buy on the ask and sell back on the bid.

Thanks.
Rosscub...

Hi, thanks for the question. This is something that is missed by many traders working with a deal desk. It is true that when you buy the GBPUSD, if it has a 5-pip spread, and wanted to sell immediately, you lose 5 pips.

Of course, that isn't very relevant because traders don't enter a trade to immediately reverse and lose the spread.

The issue is, at the time of the execution, what are you losing versus what is going on in the true market. So let's say that you buy the GBPUSD on a desk with a 5-pip spread. Now, let's say that you have a sell order at 1.9720. The quote moves up and is 1.9715 by 1.9720. Your order isn't going to get executed until the platform CHOOSES to put their bid at 1.9720. In other words, if they get their quote to 1.9718 by 1.9723, you still haven't sold at 1.9720. And, if you didn't have an order already in, they won't let you put an order to sell in between. It has to be in before the pair gets near that price. Meanwhile, they are selling to customers at 1.9723, even though you aren't out at 1.9720. So the entire spread has to be overcome a second time before you can get out. Thus, 10 pips.

If you look at behind-the-scenes numbers for deal desks, when you throw in non-true-market pricing AND spreads both ways, they actually make almost 8 pips on average per EURUSD roundtrip trade by customers by showing a 3-pip spread. Think about that. You lose the spread going in, and you lose the spread going out.

Does that help?
  • #199
  • Dec 4, 2006 3:39pm Dec 4, 2006 3:39pm
Quoting jleblang
Rosscub...

Hi, thanks for the question. This is something that is missed by many traders working with a deal desk. It is true that when you buy the GBPUSD, if it has a 5-pip spread, and wanted to sell immediately, you lose 5 pips.

Of course, that isn't very relevant because traders don't enter a trade to immediately reverse and lose the spread.

The issue is, at the time of the execution, what are you losing versus what is going on in the true market. So let's say that you buy the GBPUSD on a desk with a 5-pip spread. Now, let's say that you have a sell order at 1.9720. The quote moves up and is 1.9715 by 1.9720. Your order isn't going to get executed until the platform CHOOSES to put their bid at 1.9720. In other words, if they get their quote to 1.9718 by 1.9723, you still haven't sold at 1.9720. And, if you didn't have an order already in, they won't let you put an order to sell in between. It has to be in before the pair gets near that price. Meanwhile, they are selling to customers at 1.9723, even though you aren't out at 1.9720. So the entire spread has to be overcome a second time before you can get out. Thus, 10 pips.

If you look at behind-the-scenes numbers for deal desks, when you throw in non-true-market pricing AND spreads both ways, they actually make almost 8 pips on average per EURUSD roundtrip trade by customers by showing a 3-pip spread. Think about that. You lose the spread going in, and you lose the spread going out.

Does that help?
What you are implying is not in the spread. You are implying that the dealer is manipulating the price. While I am sure these practices still go on in retail, anyone with a seperate charting system can see it pretty readily when it is happening. With that being said one is not the other, meaning that the spread is the spread and manipulation is manipulation. When you combine the two issues it makes it very difficult to evaluate and compare accurately and effectively.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #200
  • Edited 3:56pm Dec 4, 2006 3:42pm | Edited 3:56pm
Quoting jleblang
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

You pay about an extra $2 per $100,000 to trade the GBPUSD than the EURUSD.
Being that the current euro price is 1.33 and the pound 1.98. the difference betwen the two is 65 cents. Does this not mean that htere is a $6.50 difference in commission between the two on one standard lot round turn?

With the above being the case, the actual commision for trading the pound is $19.80 per standard lot round turn. The equivalent of 2 pips. So, since your pound spread ranges between 1 and 3 pips, after adding the commission you net cost actually ranges between 3 and 5 pips to trade the pound round turn.

As a customer, I really dont want to pay over $10 per round turn commission on any of the majors.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
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