Does 100 lots move the market? | Forex Factory

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Does 100 lots move the market?

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 5:54pm Jul 27, 2007 5:02pm | Edited 5:54pm
  •  Trader#0000
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
I would be interested in feedback from any of you that has actual experience trading large amounts, whether it was at work or in your personal account.

1. what was lot size (over 99 lots)?
2. what pair?
3. what sessions were active?
4. was volume high, low, medium?
5. how many pips did the market move?

In answer to the unasked question... No I am not in a position to be this extravagant.

If you are worried about disclosing info. from your personal account just say your buddy at a brokerage shared it with you, or say nothing about the source.

Thanks for your candor!
  • #2
  • Jul 27, 2007 6:28pm Jul 27, 2007 6:28pm
If you want to move market, move to interbank level, buy at low bids and at high bids. If you buy at all bids at overall volume is like $ 200 000 000 maybe you'll make a small move. If you want a continuous move, do that like 5 minutes straight - keep buying from different names. As soon as 70 world's biggest bank believe the price is rallying up, you'll move the market xD
  • #3
  • Jul 27, 2007 6:47pm Jul 27, 2007 6:47pm
  •  Trader#0000
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
Quoting Shinigami
If you want to move market, move to interbank level, buy at low bids and at high bids. If you buy at all bids at overall volume is like $ 200 000 000 maybe you'll make a small move. If you want a continuous move, do that like 5 minutes straight - keep buying from different names. As soon as 70 world's biggest bank believe the price is rallying up, you'll move the market xD
Thank you for your very interesting and valuable insight Shinigami. If I may pick your brain a little further? At what volume do you believe the private trader should move up interbank level?
  • #4
  • Jul 27, 2007 6:51pm Jul 27, 2007 6:51pm
i don't think it needs that big to move your broker spread. (but not the price)

someone ever said that a flap of butterfly wing creates a tornado on the other side of the earth.... maybe 1 micro lot can become that butterfly
  • #5
  • Jul 27, 2007 7:09pm Jul 27, 2007 7:09pm
Quoting JOATMON
I would be interested in feedback from any of you that has actual experience trading large amounts, whether it was at work or in your personal account.

1. what was lot size (over 99 lots)?
2. what pair?
3. what sessions were active?
4. was volume high, low, medium?
5. how many pips did the market move?

In answer to the unasked question... No I am not in a position to be this extravagant.

If you are worried about disclosing info. from your personal account just say your buddy at a brokerage shared it with you, or say nothing about the source.

Thanks for your candor!
Just do a research on liquidity. Unfortunately Im not an expert on that.
Moving the market is an undesirable effect that most traders avoid (slippage) unless you have a specific purpose.
  • #6
  • Jul 27, 2007 9:16pm Jul 27, 2007 9:16pm
Bill gates could move the market for 30m in the london session 1.2 t a day good luck

dustmop
  • #7
  • Jul 28, 2007 4:21am Jul 28, 2007 4:21am
It seems nobody has properly read the initial question.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #8
  • Jul 28, 2007 6:30am Jul 28, 2007 6:30am
yes, this is an interesting thread... I hope others post answers as well.
  • #9
  • Jul 28, 2007 5:01pm Jul 28, 2007 5:01pm
Quoting Craig
It seems nobody has properly read the initial question.
Yes I second this comment.

The original poster is looking for somebody with actual experience on placing a trade and subsequently moving the market, not speculation on what might move the market.

S/he wants to know:

-lot size
-pair
-time of day
-volume/activity
-size of move

-=DAVE=-
  • #10
  • Jul 28, 2007 7:44pm Jul 28, 2007 7:44pm
A close friend of mine trades a large account, currenex, and he hasn't moved the market trading 2000 lots. He says it also depends on the pair and market liquidity. Again, his words not mine.

From another friend at Deutsche I've been told it takes 500 million in highly liquid pairs, such as GBP/USD or EUR/USD.
Patience + Humility + Study = Success
  • #11
  • Jul 28, 2007 10:58pm Jul 28, 2007 10:58pm
There's a lot of variables here that need to be drawn out. Now let's say you're trading 100 lots, we need to convert that into actual dollar amounts (orders on the books aren't counted in lots (well they are, but anyways), they're counted in millions of units of currency at an appropriate price. So 100 lots is equal to 10,000,000, which can either be a lot or a little (yes I realise how redundant that sounds). Now if it's the start of the asian session and you're trading on GBP/USD, you may actually saturate all market supply/demand at whatever price with only 10,000,000 as no one's interested right then and there. Of course, we move into the london session and your order is very much a drop in the bucket. It's mostly a question of time and place.

Take a look at Trader888's thread about being a trader for a company, in one of the posts he mentions how a friend unloaded a 1.5 yard (1.5bln) order and subsequently dropped the market something large like 50 pips or so? In respects to individual traders, it is harder to move the market yes, but with a bank's funds...well that's another story.
Never underestimate the powers of the Force.
  • #12
  • Jul 28, 2007 11:01pm Jul 28, 2007 11:01pm
  •  Trader#0000
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
Quoting DutchTrader
A close friend of mine trades a large account, currenex, and he hasn't moved the market trading 2000 lots. He says it also depends on the pair and market liquidity. Again, his words not mine.

From another friend at Deutsche I've been told it takes 500 million in highly liquid pairs, such as GBP/USD or EUR/USD.
I am sure market liquidity at the time of the trade/trades is a huge factor. While I can see both the above scenarious being valid DutchTrader, without info on liquidity/volume or the pair I am left wondering. Could you share any additional info your friend gave you on the subject?

To those of you that wrote that my question was very specific, yes it was. The speculation is interesting, but I think those that are speculating would also be interested in hearing from traders knowing specifics.

One day hopefully many of us will be in a position where this info may come in handy
  • #13
  • Jul 28, 2007 11:23pm Jul 28, 2007 11:23pm
it's all about liquidity, if you have 1000 lots buying nzdusd when only 200 is available in liquidity, then some slippage will occur as your order is filled at the next best price.

as far as the market hopping on to your small movement is concerned...well...that's up to the market (best if done near support/resistance/trendline) and best if u see low liquidity near these levels.

btw, hunt down all post by darkstar
100% of traders are losers. Just that some win more than they lose!
  • #14
  • Jul 29, 2007 12:18am Jul 29, 2007 12:18am
Am I correct when I say that 100 lots is equal to 10,000,000, which would be $1,000 a pip if I traded the EUR/USD?
  • #15
  • Jul 29, 2007 12:24am Jul 29, 2007 12:24am
  •  Trader#0000
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
Quoting trader07
Am I correct when I say that 100 lots is equal to 10,000,000, which would be $1,000 a pip if I traded the EUR/USD?
Perhaps I should have said that for the purpose of this thread, 1 lot = $100,000. So in answer to your question, yes, it would be $1,000 a pip.
  • #16
  • Jul 29, 2007 12:31am Jul 29, 2007 12:31am
Quoting The Jedi
Take a look at Trader888's thread about being a trader for a company, in one of the posts he mentions how a friend unloaded a 1.5 yard (1.5bln) order and subsequently dropped the market something large like 50 pips or so? In respects to individual traders, it is harder to move the market yes, but with a bank's funds...well that's another story.
Is there enough liquidity in the market for an order that large? I mean that would be $150,000 a pip... Wow! He had to be trading the EUR/USD or
USD/JPY.
  • #17
  • Jul 29, 2007 12:47am Jul 29, 2007 12:47am
at a single price? not usually (rare), that's why it slipped him some pips and the market prob followed the move, hence 50 pips downwards
100% of traders are losers. Just that some win more than they lose!
  • #18
  • Jul 29, 2007 1:30am Jul 29, 2007 1:30am
When the RBNZ sold off about 500-700 million on a low liquid late Sunday afternoon open it moved the market about 50-60 pips, however I am not sure that was the only factor. Perhaps in addition their was a large stop or something of that nature

During these periods in certain times of day, with certain pairs and enough money, maybe 500 millions to 1 billion you may be able to actually make it move in your direction for a short period of time.
  • #19
  • Aug 1, 2007 6:54am Aug 1, 2007 6:54am
  •  Trader#0000
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
Quoting Rosco_P
When the RBNZ sold off about 500-700 million on a low liquid late Sunday afternoon open it moved the market about 50-60 pips, however...
I remember a bit of a knee jerk trade I did about a month ago (NZDUSD). Was when the RBNZ did some selling. Captured about 2/3 of the move. I heard speculation on the amount involved but nothing definite. Is this the incident you are referring to?
  • #20
  • Aug 2, 2007 9:28am Aug 2, 2007 9:28am
I believe their have been 3 instances of the RBNZ intervening on behalf of their currency. The first was on a Sunday open which dropped he market a total of 100+ pips over the course of the day and which was reported as being in the amount 500-700 million. The second was on a late Friday afternoon around 4 p.m EST and I can't recall excatly, but I think that it moved the Market about 40-50 pips.

Not sure on that third date.
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