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  • #541
  • Jan 2, 2025 12:17am Jan 2, 2025 12:17am
Here is my statement after 2.5 months.
I dumped a bunch of trades on hand at the end in order to make sure I get a green December.

I made more than 1%/ mo.
Hardly ever dipped below 100K. Maybe a couple of days by less than 1% during the whole time.
Most my trades are .01 size.
Now the risk engine is at .95
.95 X .01 = what? ZERO

It's not allowing even .01 trades.

I like to know what fkg harsh trading I've done that after making a consistent 1%/mo and not using margin cause I'm using the gains as my margine, I'm not allowed to place a .01 size trade.

Yes, I need answers.
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  • #542
  • Jan 2, 2025 12:42am Jan 2, 2025 12:42am
This is my actual equity curve.
On Dec 17 I started trading gold and gold hit the fan and my account dipped below the 100K by less than 1% and well recovered.
That's all.
Now the risk engine doesn't place .01 trades cause it is at .95
How many freaking months should I pay the monthly sub and be forced to put on trades larger than .01 for the risk engine to allow .01's again.
I feel like a criminal now with a criminal record that is hard to shake off.
Fkg risk engine and its stupid formula.

Darwinex says they are not a prop and feel insulted if someone calls them a prop but what prop would punish you for god knows how long with trade restrictions of zero trades because you dipped once 1% below 100K?
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  • #543
  • Jan 2, 2025 12:51am Jan 2, 2025 12:51am
Let's see if he responds.


Hello Mr. Colón

I hope you had a good year and I wish you a happier year in 2025.

Kieran never contacted me in any shape or form. Perhaps he is tired of explaining things to subscribers but it doesn't matter because all he would do would be to explain a formula.

Attached is my detailed statement from my account. In December, wanting to make sure I end up with a green month, I closed all my trades and started over again. (now ATH becomes a factor as it is away by $1800)
As you see, nearly 4000 trades, yielded 3% in less than 3 months. During the course of 2.5 months, maybe for a few days only the dd breached the 100K equity by less than 1%. The account has been for maybe 90% of this time trading on the gains acquired from the market too. I see that as pretty much risk free trading and those few days that dd nudged below the principal, really in the scope of trading a volatile market (I actually added trading gold during that period) is really I'd say a no big deal in a 100K account.

During this time, the risk engine has been cut from 4+ to now .95. Since many of my trades are .01 size, .97X.01 is below the minimum .01 trade size and your risk engine isn't even allowing the bare minimum size to be executed. How many more months of of sub should I pay to reach the privilege being granted the right to place .01 trades after making 3% in 2.5 months?

Is this the definition of fair in your world? Is my account so dangerous that cannot be trusted with .01 trades?
I know you got your formulas and relations etc. but they don't make sense in the context of my account and in a practical world.
Regardless of the formulas and calculations, I challenge you this:

I will close all trades in my current account. Then I will start a new DZ account. Then I will attach the same EA with the exact specifications to both and after a month or two, I can bet you that the new account will have outperformed the old account.

That would mean that the old account which has made 3% in less than 3 months, will be at a disadvantage compared to the new account. Meanwhile, the old account will have paid 3 months of subscription and incurred 3 months of observation and if nothing else, the cost of a computer and the electricity used.

Do you agree? Should I go ahead with this to show you practical results?

At the very least, if I turn out to be right, it will answer your question as to why traders are dumping their accounts when they get into dd or the risk engine turns sour on them.

Please let me know because I'm about to cancel this account before the next sub charged on Jan 12 2025.
Account XXXXXXXXX

Thanks,
  • #544
  • Jan 2, 2025 1:25am Jan 2, 2025 1:25am
Let's see. If I was trading for a prop,
At 1%/mo, it will take me 8 months for the first phase and 6 months for the second phase for a total of 14 months.
Then I get 90% of whatever I earn per month assuming that the prop is legit and pays.
Cost for prop challenge is...IDK..$250 to $500?

At Darwinex, I'd pay $43/mo. for that same 14 months which is $602
I'd get ...very hard to calculate...15% of whenever I am allocated and can keep the allocation IF they don't restrict my .01 trading.
I don't think Darwinex is keeping up with props here.

The cost with Darwinex could be much higher than $602 for the 14 months because like now, the risk engine isn't placing my trades while like clockwork, Darwinex collects the subs.

Obviously a less than 1% dd isn't going to end up in major punishment at props whereas Darwinex nails you to the wall.

So, right now, being stuck at a dead end with Darwinex, they are looking very ugly to me. Yikes.
  • #545
  • Jan 2, 2025 2:22am Jan 2, 2025 2:22am
Quoting BlackOpz
{quote} They're a honest broker but to me they dont have the best trade conditions. Spread is wider that I would like. I copy-trade into my Darwinex but wont run my algo ON Darwinex because the spread would prevent some trades from executing. I always trade my source accounts on DEMO for perfect no-hassle execution and copy-trade to my LIVE account (even DZero demo to demo). Darwin is just a OK broker in that regard (MUCH better than Oanda I must say and they wont cheat you/freeze the platform, etc.).
Thanks very much for your detailed reply. I think I'll open an account with a smallish initial deposit and see how it goes. Thanks again and GL with your trading and getting funded etc.
  • #546
  • Jan 2, 2025 5:20am Jan 2, 2025 5:20am
Quoting OutThere
I emailed Mr. Juan Colón and invited him to a challenge. Let's see if he accepts. The challenge is that I will clear all trades from my current account and then I will sign up with a new account. Then I will make sure both accounts are operated exactly the same..maybe using a copier or whatever. After a couple of months, the new account will be in much much better position as far as how the risk manager trades it. That will show that 1- It is hard to dig oneself out of a historical dd even if it is minimal or intraday. 2- Punishment levied by the...
I agree with points 1+2+4, iffy on number 3.

It mostly depends on your strategy but if you hit a big DD and the risk-engine punishes you (it will), Darwin will reduce your risk-ratio exponentially making it almost impossible to recover (which sometimes makes sense to restart) BUT its caused by the strategy design. You can easily design a strategy that wont get punished when it loses but it'd prob be low-risk/low-reward. So I wouldnt say Darwinex is farming traders but they are setup to profit when it happens. In truth they actually discourage restarts and in a perfect world it appears the want to find the 'diamond' traders and sell their trading records. I think the risk-engine is a pretty clever and objective way to filter the traders rather than a human manager trying to choose. In the future it'll prob get an AI boost.
  • #547
  • Jan 2, 2025 5:30am Jan 2, 2025 5:30am
Quoting OutThere
Most my trades are .01 size. Now the risk engine is at .95 .95 X .01 = what? ZERO It's not allowing even .01 trades. {image}
That SUX!! I would expect the engine to round-up!! so that a 0.0095 would become 0.01 - If I had coded it no matter the undersize trade sent I would open a min lotsize trade in any event. You should drop that in the suggestion box. It should auto-upsize to the min. Boooooo...
  • #548
  • Jan 2, 2025 5:52am Jan 2, 2025 5:52am
Quoting OutThere
This is my actual equity curve. On Dec 17 I started trading gold and gold hit the fan and my account dipped below the 100K by less than 1% and well recovered. That's all. Now the risk engine doesn't place .01 trades cause it is at .95 How many freaking months should I pay the monthly sub and be forced to put on trades larger than .01 for the risk engine to allow .01's again. I feel like a criminal now with a criminal record that is hard to shake off. Fkg risk engine and its stupid formula. Darwinex says they are not a prop and feel insulted if someone...
The risk engine makes sense looking at your equity curve, who would want to invest in something that every two months goes back to the start?
Pip Goes The Weasel
  • #549
  • Jan 2, 2025 6:04am Jan 2, 2025 6:04am
Quoting BlackOpz
{quote} I agree with points 1+2+4, iffy on number 3. It mostly depends on your strategy but if you hit a big DD and the risk-engine punishes you (it will), Darwin will reduce your risk-ratio exponentially making it almost impossible to recover (which sometimes makes sense to restart) BUT its caused by the strategy design. You can easily design a strategy that wont get punished when it loses but it'd prob be low-risk/low-reward. So I wouldnt say Darwinex is farming traders but they are setup to profit when it happens. In truth they actually discourage...
You're right about Darwinex liking simpler styles of trading. Grandma Expo placing on trade and going to sleep style is understood better by the risk engine than continuous strings of trades that are related to each other. It liberally disrupts the flow of more complex trading mechanisms. Nothing is more disruptive than having to change a trading method just to get on the good side of the risk engine which is akin to becoming a resident of the doghouse. My first month I was using a simple one position trade EA. I still have it and can use it, so yes, conforming to risk engine's way is not too hard but I will probably do it in a new account. I like your term 'farming traders' lol. Juan says all he is doing is trying to get traders funded. He probably is but in a certain way that is obvious and rational to him but mysterious and quite bumpy to traders.
Any algo is basically a form of AI or AI wannabe. I think he is already using AI to run the whole show anyway.
  • #550
  • Jan 2, 2025 6:16am Jan 2, 2025 6:16am
Quoting BlackOpz
{quote} That SUX!! I would expect the engine to round-up!! so that a 0.0095 would become 0.01 - If I had coded it no matter the undersize trade sent I would open a min lotsize trade in any event. You should drop that in the suggestion box. It should auto-upsize to the min. Boooooo...
Well, maybe.
Some of my trades are hedged. When it is so, it might show xyz 00 lot and risk engine 00 lot. I discussed it with customer service before and they said it's looks alright to them and that was all. However, the .01 trades of mine are never hedged...I don't know...not seeing what they are doing is problematic for me. I can't even be sure what's going on. Basically like everybody, I'm supposed to sit back and trust that they are doing everything just right and this is they way it should be. Well, me complaining is a byproduct of their black box operating in the background clashing with a trader's mind who wants to know what is going on. So, what goes around comes around.
Anyways, let's see if Juan replies or like before relegates me to some ghost expert underling with similar info to thr vids they have already published.
  • #551
  • Jan 2, 2025 6:18am Jan 2, 2025 6:18am
Quoting adrazz
{quote} The risk engine makes sense looking at your equity curve, who would want to invest in something that every two months goes back to the start?
Well, they advise to not touch anyone with less than 3 years record, so never mind every two months. It's a long haul for investor dream anyway.
  • #552
  • Jan 2, 2025 6:44am Jan 2, 2025 6:44am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Well, they advise to not touch anyone with less than 3 years record, so never mind every two months. It's a long haul for investor dream anyway.
You can always get your 100k allocation and then switch to a live account, that way you make profits on your own money, no Darwinex Zero fee and also make profits on the 100k plus any other allocations going forward
Pip Goes The Weasel
  • #553
  • Jan 2, 2025 6:52am Jan 2, 2025 6:52am
Quoting adrazz
{quote} You can always get your 100k allocation and then switch to a live account, that way you make profits on your own money, no Darwinex Zero fee and also make profits on the 100k plus any other allocations going forward
Yes, I might do that but only with my simple method which I haven't restarted yet cause I'm by my computer only once a week or two weeks.
You know, I do feel for Darwinex cause as a trader, I might assume an investor has been with me from day one and benefited 1% a month but in reality, investors come in and go at random times. Some of them my join just before a deep dd and they leave just as the account recovers. Darwinex probably gets an earful from them too. It comes with the territory I guess. Your suggestion with a 100k acct is like I'm an investor that was with me from day one which is a good suggestion. Thanks.
  • #554
  • Edited 7:46am Jan 2, 2025 7:35am | Edited 7:46am
Well, that was quick.

The diagnosis is that I need to be educated.
________________________
Happy new Year to you too

I’m coing in @Kieran Duff - not sure what happened re. you speaking to him.

Wrt to continuing your subscription. I think it’s essential for you to delve deeper as to how our concept works.
My colleagues @Darwinex Info (in cc) will point you to extensive help resources, our discord community and on-boarding webinars.

Things will hopefully become clear, including why drawdown limits or minimum position sizes in the signal account don’t feature in our equation.

If you’re up for that effort I would advise for you NOT to start over. As you mention you’ll lose 3 months of track-record for no good reason.
What I would NOT recommend is continuing without those clarifications - using our service without them defeats everyone’s purpose.

Regards

________________________

This part is interesting "why drawdown limits or minimum position sizes in the signal account don’t feature in our equation."

Anyone knows the answer to this?
Anyone has any questions or concern that I can ask?
  • #555
  • Jan 2, 2025 9:41am Jan 2, 2025 9:41am
Quote
This part is interesting "why drawdown limits or minimum position sizes in the signal account don’t feature in our equation."

Anyone knows the answer to this?
Anyone has any questions or concern that I can ask?
Hi,I might try to explain to you. I use Darwinex Classic,not DarwinexZero,so maybe you don't have access to the same documentation nor the same analytical tools that "old Darwinex" service offers to users who trade their real capital...
Darwinex Risk engine doesn't care about your past achievements (profits and DDs),that doesn't enter into it's calculations.It is only interested in your present and future Risk.What that means? It watches what assets you trade(their present volatility and how correlated they are),how often,how long and what are you doing with the leverage. That's it.
Risk engine is there to protect investors and the broker (imagine somebody doing martingale with 10 mil. investors money in darwin and getting into market storm like CHF disaster almost decade back- broker would go bankrupt ).
Risk Engine also cuts darwin's open trades if additional new trades elevate present and future risk too much.
Risk Engine also "penalizes" trader's unstable handling of their Risk (Risk Stability(RS) profile which is visible to real-money traders) during previous 6 months and gives smaller Replication ratio that would otherwise trader get if he held his Risk profile more stable.
Other than that people here don't seem to understand that Risk Engine needs a minimum 45 trading days of data to calculate approx. risk profile of the trader.But in reality it works optimally only with a look-back of 6 months of trading data(at least it was like that few years back).That is why first 6 months of trading on Darwinex is useless to analyze from the viewpoint of investors,as that period is not with optimal Risk Engine coverage. Traders that are lucky at the beginning get their Returns even greater than they would get if Risk Engine knew more about strategy/trader. Basically first year of trackrecord is not optimal representation of traders skills for this reason and not only because some get lucky in their first year,but don't have staying power to perform in second,third year...for investors and for Darwinex it is top priority what you are capable to produce in your third and eventually tenth year of trackrecord.
Thankfully Darwinex created Darwinia Gold to separate those lucky first-year darwins from long-term traders and to incentivize traders to work with long-term perspective.And only then they can start thinking about managing milions of AUM.
If trader does very risky strategy like martingale and variations of this,Risk Engine will eventually find out that and those high/stable returns that trader produced during his lucky period will never be replicated with same high leverage. As I wrote earlier Risk Engine is there to protect investors and the broker.Each Darwin is a product of Darwinex(they have all regulatory permissions) and some input of intellectual property from trader who gets rewarded 15% of profits created this way.
In your case it would be nice if you posted at least your RS and LA criteria profiles,if you have them at DarwinexZero. Even better would be if you posted your "Trading Journal" or "Underlying Strategy" and there we will see answer for your troubles with Risk Engine. Drawdown doesn't matter,Equity curvew from MetaTrader doesn't matter. It is important to see how you behaved during DD and how you climbed out of it. Adding a lot of risk to already loosing position gets you in trouble with Risk Engine.
I hope all this makes sense.Happy New Year!
  • #556
  • Jan 2, 2025 12:51pm Jan 2, 2025 12:51pm
The one thing I don't understand is how they calculate the percent gain you make on your account.

First trading day of the month. See flawless, sexy results below.
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My risk factor is at 0.53 and my Darwin quote started the day at 112.5

I made $1253 today (insert applause here)

So, the way I would calculate is 1253 x 0.53 = $664

Ok, now 664 divided by 112.5 = 5.9 or 0.59% gain

However, the website shows my gain as 0.48%

There must be something I'm missing which is strange because I'm super intelligent
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #557
  • Jan 2, 2025 2:16pm Jan 2, 2025 2:16pm
Quote
My risk factor is at 0.53 and my Darwin quote started the day at 112.5

I made $1253 today (insert applause here)

So, the way I would calculate is 1253 x 0.53 = $664

Ok, now 664 divided by 112.5 = 5.9 or 0.59% gain

However, the website shows my gain as 0.48%
I assume what you call "risk factor" is what we at Darwinex Classic call "Replication Ratio".
You should multiply your today's % profit with this Replication Ratio and you will get darwin's profit for today.Given that you were very active today and your darwin is probably young one,there is a chance that your Replication ratio during the day changed because Risk Engine got additional data to calculate your Risk profile - this could make some little difference as well.Replication ratio posted on website is not updating in real-time during the day.Later when darwin is mature and Risk Engine has firmly established your risk profile ,your Replication ratio becomes more stable,not changing for 0,01 for weeks.
Additionally some difference could appear if Risk Engine had to cut(partially close) some of your existing trades because you were adding too much risk to existing total position.
  • #558
  • Jan 2, 2025 3:46pm Jan 2, 2025 3:46pm
Quoting EURsniper
{quote} I assume what you call "risk factor" is what we at Darwinex Classic call "Replication Ratio". You should multiply your today's % profit with this Replication Ratio and you will get darwin's profit for today.Given that you were very active today and your darwin is probably young one,there is a chance that your Replication ratio during the day changed because Risk Engine got additional data to calculate your Risk profile - this could make some little difference as well.Replication ratio posted on website is not updating in real-time during...
That makes perfect sense, I have seen Darwinex cut trades of mine when drawdown is even slightly higher than normal, if using some form of recovery then there is a good chance that Darwinex is closing those recovery trades making actual recovery take longer, regardless of the final profit. Darwinex basically teaches you to trade correctly and punishes you for taking too big a risk
Pip Goes The Weasel
  • #559
  • Jan 2, 2025 7:14pm Jan 2, 2025 7:14pm
Quoting EURsniper
{quote} I assume what you call "risk factor" is what we at Darwinex Classic call "Replication Ratio". You should multiply your today's % profit with this Replication Ratio and you will get darwin's profit for today.Given that you were very active today and your darwin is probably young one,there is a chance that your Replication ratio during the day changed because Risk Engine got additional data to calculate your Risk profile - this could make some little difference as well.Replication ratio posted on website is not updating in real-time during...
Account is 5 months old and Darwin never cuts my trades because I NEVER have more than one position open at a time. My risk adjustment has been at 0.53 for a month without changing.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #560
  • Edited 8:00pm Jan 2, 2025 7:19pm | Edited 8:00pm
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ME!! - Ended 2024 with <1% to go to activate my 100K. Just checked for first time time Today and GUESS WHO'S A 100K SUPERHERO!? (even though I'm currently in slight DD on it but we'll discuss that later...). Still plenty of time to earn a couple percent on it this month but I'll have locked in 190K of my DZero 500K goal. Now I need larger allocations on the way to Gold where they're larger and longer lasting than Silver (and where a 'lucky' month can set you up nicely - my xxx jackpot strategy).
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