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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

So I accepted a Prop Trading job in South Beach Miami 44 replies

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  • #44,581
  • Nov 22, 2024 7:35pm Nov 22, 2024 7:35pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Live is still a liability at least initially. But a final liability. The thing about futures is the cost is so low, the margins are razor thin. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these futures shops are running on reserves now and trying to pivot
The initial eval is low, but once passed, remember, most of these firms charge an activation fee which is a actually equal to or greater than the forex firms in terms of $$$ per DD. .
Look at APEX, $33 up front and then $85 for activation fee (was $130)....SO $118 FOR 2.5K DD, equivalent to $472 for 10K DD, which is right in line with a 100K 2 step forex firm with 10K DD.....plus consistency rules, tailing DD and payout caps
These are like 2 step challenges where you pay small for step 1 and then more for step 2 while you build your buffer.
These are indeed 2 step challenges if you can only withdrawal above the buffer....they are just more cleverly marketed as cheaper, 1 step evals.
The firms with the "no activation fee" are simply baking it into the eval cost. They make the "all-in" cost a little less, luring in those that are such great traders, they are going to pass in 1 go, so might as well take the lower cost. These firms are actually making more money as they charge more up front and I'm certain the pass rate is still the same.
Now the new, smarter (for the firm) model is straight to funded, pay 2-3 times more "all-in" cost than the 2 step and skip step 1 (the eval). Once again, you are nnot really straight to funded as you still must pass step 2 (the buffer). These companies are the smartest....charging even more up front and probably the same % will get to payout. These are also the ones with a "path to live" to remove you from their balance sheet once you hit 10K, 6 payouts or whatever that particular firms rules are.
I am pro- prop, when used properly as a means to accelerate your personal account 3-4 times quicker for the same "real $$$$ risk" as opposed to simply depositing into a personal account. However, the reality is, not nearly as good a deal as the clever marketing makes it appear.
  • #44,582
  • Nov 22, 2024 7:46pm Nov 22, 2024 7:46pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} Exactly...They advertise like they are doing traders favor . I wonder what's the real benefit imagine if trader makes 5k and topstep decides to move him to live holding all other accounts. How much he is going to make with 2.5K (assuming trader is smart enough to withdraw profit split which is 50% in topstep). So from potential 5 xfa of 50K account they moved him to 2.5K account. On live you can't even open 1 lot with that amount. Is it a promotion or demotion.
Right and then your other 4 accounts that you have already paid for....you can no longer trade them? Seriously?
I'm thinking the best path is 1 account with 8 firms and copy them in my quantower. Move me to live, that's fine as I am not losing all of the other accounts I have with you.
I have asked this directly of MFFU....do I get 3 live accounts or just 1 and the answer is our "risk team" will work with you at that point.
I am faily certain all firms will be the same "path to live".....you get 1 and cannot trade any other accounts with us.
  • #44,583
  • Nov 22, 2024 7:48pm Nov 22, 2024 7:48pm
Quoting Stoneyrocks
An idea of CEO Brett at Tradeify {image}
Now, this I can dive into. There is an actual benefit of getting to live (as there should be). When we look at the % of traders that can actually do this CONSISTENTLY, yes, you should make more at this level, not less.
  • #44,584
  • Nov 22, 2024 7:51pm Nov 22, 2024 7:51pm
I read so much of "cons " about prop firms.

I think, Prop firm is for fast buck and then deposit funds with proper reputed mt4/mt5 broker and trade regularly.
Intraday only.
  • #44,585
  • Nov 22, 2024 8:00pm Nov 22, 2024 8:00pm
Monty truly runs this the right way. When I apply the math to his approach, he simply treats each "eval" as if it were an individual trade in a personal account.
You have a 10K account risking 2% ($200) per trade......Instead, I am going to buy 3 MFFU evals ($240). The eval is a 1:1 risk reward, 3:2.5, whatever, we get that point.
However if the trade wins, he has 2.5*3 in DD, $7,500 on a $200 trade.
This is why he can fly through and pass even at a 25-30 % rate, because he is getting 37:1 reward for what is actually slightly more than a 1:1 trade. If you only pass 25%, it's still better than 9:1.
You cannot place a 1:1 $200 trade and earn $7,500 in personal.
He is successful because he has committed the bankroll to do it. Then it is prepetual once it gets rolling, as he states, "payouts fund further evals"....it is the way I ran my forex props
This is clearly the model to follow for maximum benefit, regardless of how small you start.
Your propfirm "bankroll" is the same as your deposit into a personal account.
  • #44,586
  • Nov 22, 2024 9:36pm Nov 22, 2024 9:36pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} The initial eval is low, but once passed, remember, most of these firms charge an activation fee which is a actually equal to or greater than the forex firms in terms of $$$ per DD. . Look at APEX, $33 up front and then $85 for activation fee (was $130)....SO $118 FOR 2.5K DD, equivalent to $472 for 10K DD, which is right in line with a 100K 2 step forex firm with 10K DD.....plus consistency rules, tailing DD and payout caps These are like 2 step challenges where you pay small for step 1 and then more for step 2 while you build your buffer....
Point no matter what kinda evaluation you go with.... THe no. of traders getting paid is pretty damn low.......If there is a saying 95% traders lose money in the trading world then my guess in case of prop firms like 1%-1.5% get to a payout ........
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #44,587
  • Edited Nov 23, 2024 5:51am Nov 22, 2024 9:48pm | Edited Nov 23, 2024 5:51am
Quoting navk
TTTDirect account 100k, 150k account charges same as Tradeify Tradeify : Safety net 100k - 6k 150k - 9k Withdrawals: Once in 14 days. Process quick. In minutes to hours. 2500 max / 100k 3000 max / 150k TTTDirect account : Safety net 100k - 5k 150k - 7.5k Withdrawals: Anytime up to 6 withdrawals. Process upto 5 days. Bank transfer possible. 2500 max / 100k 3000 max / 150k. Safety net and anytime withdrawal makes TTTDirect account attractive With Tradeify and TTT, live account details not aware. Sfety net amount is withdrawable ? Not sure
Direct funding model.

We can call achieving safety net as phase 1.

For a 100k account, with TTT , 5k. ( 5 % )

For 150k account, with TTT, 7.5K ( 5 % )

For achieving phase 1 target, the plan can be 10 trading days. 10 x 0.5 %

Withdrawal phase can be called as Phase 2.

Trade minimum 5 days. ( 5 x 0.5 % = 2.5 % )

At the end of third week, one can withdraw 2% from safety net + 2.5% from profit earned. Total 4.5 %

Repeat the above phase 2 process for next 2 weeks ( 10 x 0.5 % ), and withdraw 5%

Every 2 weeks, one can withdraw 5 % with the above phase 2 process.

Sounds good plan
Intraday only.
  • #44,588
  • Edited 10:02pm Nov 22, 2024 9:49pm | Edited 10:02pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Monty truly runs this the right way. When I apply the math to his approach, he simply treats each "eval" as if it were an individual trade in a personal account. You have a 10K account risking 2% ($200) per trade......Instead, I am going to buy 3 MFFU evals ($240). The eval is a 1:1 risk reward, 3:2.5, whatever, we get that point. However if the trade wins, he has 2.5*3 in DD, $7,500 on a $200 trade. This is why he can fly through and pass even at a 25-30 % rate, because he is getting 37:1 reward for what is actually slightly more than a 1:1 trade....
One thing i learnt after spending mother load money on evals..... is that - PICK THE EVAL SIZE THAT YOU HAVE MORE CHANCES OF PASSING AND SPEND LESS TIME ON EVALS PHASE(ONLY FOR FUTURES PROPS) i.e EITHER BLOW OR PASS THEM IN A DAY OR TWO........ the reason is spend more time on building the drawdown on funding....
Most of times what happened is like i spent 2-3 weeks on passing a challenge and lost the funding in 2-3 days felt so stupid example is ftmo challenge tooke 27 days to pass and 6 days to lose the funded account.

Before i thought 150k is best deal with enough drawdown but they are hard to pass..... My ratio is 1 out of 4 tries which is not good ..... But then i realised

Why not go with 25k or 50k which has higher chance of passing then build the drawdown in there which eventually reduced my evals cost to minimal.........

I have stat to share before i used to spend 30-40% of a payout on evals.....
From last 3 months it has reduced to 2-4%...... TRICK IS NOW I PICK 50K ACCOUNT ALWAYS N PASS THEM IN 1-2 tries most of time coz its easier for me to pass and cheaper as well than spend time in building drawdown in there......

I HAVE SHOWN THE PATHWAY this year to make 200k NETT FROM a novice prop firm trader to a profitable prop firm trader.... there is a starting costing which can be 200$, 300$ or 1k or any number for me it was 4k$ worth forex challenges to get to a first payout..... then its all reinvesting and building a plan and strategy that WORKS FOR YOU
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #44,589
  • Nov 22, 2024 9:55pm Nov 22, 2024 9:55pm
Quoting navk
{quote} Direct funding method. We can call achieving safety net as phase 1. For a 100k account, with TTT , 5k. ( 5 % ) For 150k account, with TTT, 7.5K ( 5 % ) For achieving phase 1 target, the plan can be 10 trading days. 10 x 0.5 % Withdrawal phase can be called as Phase 2. Trade minimum 5 days. ( 5 x 0.5 % = 2.5 % ) At the end of third week, one can withdraw 2% from safety net + 2.5% from profit earned. Total 4.5 % Repeat the above phase 2 process for next 2 weeks ( 10 x 0.5 % ), and withdraw 5% Every 2 weeks, one can withdraw 5 % with the above...
Math looks good on paper but nearly impossible to do consistently on daily basis.... FOr me its like 7-8 days to get a 5 day payout cycle system including losing days......

Another math on direct funding ----

Regular 150k challenge is 220$ and direct funding is 420$ so in short twice of regular challenge. Most of times people need more than 1 try to pass an eval so in this case direct funding makes more sense and saves efforts......
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #44,590
  • Nov 22, 2024 9:59pm Nov 22, 2024 9:59pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} One thing i learnt after apending mother load money on evals..... is that - PICK THE EVAL SIZE THAT YOU HAVE MORE CHANCES OF PASSING AND SPEND LESS TIME ON PASSING THEM i.e EITHER BLOW OR PASS THEM IN A DAY OR TWO........ the reason is spend more time on building the drawdown on funding.... Before i thought 150k is best deal with enough drawdown but they are hard to pass..... My ratio is 1 out of 4 tries which is not good ..... But then i realised Why not go with 25k or 50k which has higher chance of passing then build the drawdown in there...
Yes, you go for it in one go on the eval just like I said...it' s like one trade in a personal account.
Everyone should be paying attention to what you're doing.
Start with whatever roll you wish, pass quick and payouts fund further evals.....
  • #44,591
  • Nov 22, 2024 10:06pm Nov 22, 2024 10:06pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} Math looks good on paper but nearly impossible to do consistently on daily basis.... FOr me its like 7-8 days to get a 5 day payout cycle system including losing days...... Another math on direct funding ---- Regular 150k challenge is 220$ and direct funding is 420$ so in short twice of regular challenge. Most of times people need more than 1 try to pass an eval so in this case direct funding makes more sense and saves efforts......
I love the word consistency.

I would go for 0.25 % in Asia. Thereafter, even if spike or crash happens, I would not bother.

Then 0.25 % after 10 Am.

Once 0.5 % done, watch videos, spend time.

There are days, when I try to finish fast, excitement comes in and loose what I made.

A typical case... i made 2.6k ... the last day i made more than 1 k leaving just 400 $ to pass eval. I tired to capture 400 $ on the same day... lost entire evals. With Tradeify. lol
Intraday only.
  • #44,592
  • Nov 22, 2024 10:09pm Nov 22, 2024 10:09pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} Math looks good on paper but nearly impossible to do consistently on daily basis.... FOr me its like 7-8 days to get a 5 day payout cycle system including losing days...... Another math on direct funding ---- Regular 150k challenge is 220$ and direct funding is 420$ so in short twice of regular challenge. Most of times people need more than 1 try to pass an eval so in this case direct funding makes more sense and saves efforts......
On first sign up with Direct funding, there is always Excitement. I know your first day hit DL
Intraday only.
  • #44,593
  • Nov 22, 2024 10:13pm Nov 22, 2024 10:13pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, you go for it in one go on the eval just like I said...it' s like one trade in a personal account. Everyone should be paying attention to what you're doing. Start with whatever roll you wish, pass quick and payouts fund further evals.....
Another math is in futures prop firms 25k and 50k evals are dirt cheap so people can try yolo them to pass with news. I am pretty sure 1 out of max 3 will pass it.... then spend time to get to a first payout..
Its pretty hard to be consistent so for example for mFFU 50k - 76$ starter accounts task is to reach 2600$ to pull 1200$ right or if someone aiming for long term then 4k to pull 1200$ leaving behind enough drawdown.... One can divide it like 200-300$ a day for 10-20 days which looks doable on paper but really hard in practise to be profitable everyday.. whereas one can increase their risk try to aim for 600-800$ a day for 4-5 days to get that bag (EVen though you can fail lets say after third try you'll able to achieve so total cost is 230$ish but the return is 1200$).. Its applicable for FIRST PAYOUT only coz after that you'll need to make payout amount every cycle which is very much doable..... COz some weeks market is favoring your analysis so better get the most out of it....... i am on a winning streak from last 2 weeks coz i am BUYER no matter the instrument and markets been going up n up which worked in my favor....

THis is my plan with every funded accounts and its worked so good
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #44,594
  • Nov 22, 2024 10:18pm Nov 22, 2024 10:18pm
Quoting navk
{quote} On first sign up with Direct funding, there is always Excitement. I know your first day hit DL
That was pure stupidness and it was on me and also it was a badluck as well as i mentioned switching firms, forget to select the group instead of 3 contracts on each account opened 15 on 1 and NQ was like BRUH i am going to DLL you out before u even realise...... Literally nq 1min candle spiked exactly 13points hit the DLL then comeback to the exact spot......... thats a thing of the past atleast recovered most of it... only thing is before i was aiming for 15k bagg now reduced to 12k bag.....
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #44,595
  • Nov 22, 2024 10:31pm Nov 22, 2024 10:31pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} That was pure stupidness and it was on me and also it was a badluck as well as i mentioned switching firms, forget to select the group instead of 3 contracts on each account opened 15 on 1 and NQ was like BRUH i am going to DLL you out before u even realise...... Literally nq 1min candle spiked exactly 13points hit the DLL then comeback to the exact spot......... thats a thing of the past atleast recovered most of it... only thing is before i was aiming for 15k bagg now reduced to 12k bag.....
One of my friend from Markham, says he does look for 10 to 15 pips in fx trading, gbpusd with certain lot size to achieve his target.

Once done, he quits trading.

He chooses London open to capture those pips.

If practiced, it is possible.

These days, I do only Asia and Market open at 10 am since my most concentration is in futures.

I avoid gold futures and do only s & p 500 futures.

I am more clear what s & p does at 6 pm open and then at 9.30 am open and then after 10 am.
Intraday only.
  • #44,596
  • Nov 23, 2024 12:50am Nov 23, 2024 12:50am
Inserted Video


These streamers selling NONSENSE to get them VIEWS>......

I mean i can MATH 100$ to 1 Billion in a year.......

PURE BS>.... DO it yourself first before advising others.....
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #44,597
  • Nov 23, 2024 1:34am Nov 23, 2024 1:34am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Ouch, they're following Sway path. Where have you seen this ?
Email link to a blog. Main topic was highlighting their upcoming futures and instant funding lunch.
  • #44,598
  • Nov 23, 2024 2:19am Nov 23, 2024 2:19am
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} Point no matter what kinda evaluation you go with.... THe no. of traders getting paid is pretty damn low.......If there is a saying 95% traders lose money in the trading world then my guess in case of prop firms like 1%-1.5% get to a payout ........
No need for guessing

Only 0.28 % got to payout at MyForexFunds and that was with the best Profit/Drawdown ratio in that time

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  • #44,599
  • Nov 23, 2024 4:58am Nov 23, 2024 4:58am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} My personal opinion: 1. FTMO, 5ers, E8, City Traders Imperium, Audacity 2. Maven, Fintokei, Pit Trading 3. MFFx, Blue Risky: Aqua, ThinkCapital, Instant Funding, BlueBerry, ICFunded, FXIFY,Next, Funding Pips Avoid: Finotive, Goat Doubt: Pip Farm
Why is FXIFY under risky?
Anything above the line is an uptrend, below the line is a downtrend.
  • #44,600
  • Nov 23, 2024 5:41am Nov 23, 2024 5:41am
Quoting Stoneyrocks
No need for guessing Only 0.28 % got to payout at MyForexFunds and that was with the best Profit/Drawdown ratio in that time
I can certainly believe that.

A friend at FTMO tells me that they reckon on 1 person in 500 (0.2%) ever getting as far as a payout.

At other firms it will doubtless be even lower. If they pay out at all.
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