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  • #42,521
  • Sep 26, 2024 9:50am Sep 26, 2024 9:50am
Quoting Capablanca
FTT model is unsustainable, we already discussed it here. The futures arena will be just like forex one. This guys seem very shady, to say the least, and still they had the Rythmic. I would not count on Rythmic or Tradovate to police this futures industry.
As I said earlier it reminds me Funding Talent. Good price top notch fills low spreads (especially when Funding talent moved to their own server)
Only difference here is even if you have million dollar in profit you can't withdraw. THATS THE BIGGEST difference with APEX.
I think they are fishy but my concern is if APEX is able to stay afloat after making so many payouts why will not fast track survive.
Their fees is like equal to apex or even expensive with all failure challenges and PA fees into consideration.
Failure rate of traders will be same.
  • #42,522
  • Sep 26, 2024 9:58am Sep 26, 2024 9:58am
My friend tried to get a payout on alpha, but was flagged for gambling because of large daily drawdowns. Was offered 25% of the original 80% split.
  • #42,523
  • Sep 26, 2024 9:59am Sep 26, 2024 9:59am
Quoting Capablanca
FTT model is unsustainable, we already discussed it here. The futures arena will be just like forex one. This guys seem very shady, to say the least, and still they had the Rythmic. I would not count on Rythmic or Tradovate to police this futures industry.
bad things will come to futures, it is just a question of when.
  • #42,524
  • Sep 26, 2024 10:17am Sep 26, 2024 10:17am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} bad things will come to futures, it is just a question of when.
I truly think, MFF was not shut down because of the model, maybe disguised as such. I believe it was simply due to offering CFDs in the USA..... regardless of why the CFTC says they acted. Then of course, Metatrader felt threatened de to providing the software where illegal activity was taking place. Everything cascaded from there.
With that being said, I believe the futures props, as long as they don't outright scam folks, are OK due to the fact(SIM or not) the products being traded are LEGAL in the USA.
Once again, use the proven, reliable firms.....there absolutely will be bad actors coming in, just like there are 100% bad actors on the trading side trying to scam the firms. Don't use them, they have no business, there is no unwelcome attention brought to the space, the existing firms survive.
Man, do I feel like a broken record from 4 years ago. Ironically, the firms I recommended then are still here, none of the others survived. I know I recommended MFF, but they were the collateral damage of the CFTC agenda, not due to being a bad firm.
  • #42,525
  • Sep 26, 2024 10:47am Sep 26, 2024 10:47am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I truly think, MFF was not shut down because of the model, maybe disguised as such. I believe it was simply due to offering CFDs in the USA..... regardless of why the CFTC says they acted. Then of course, Metatrader felt threatened de to providing the software where illegal activity was taking place. Everything cascaded from there. With that being said, I believe the futures props, as long as they don't outright scam folks, are OK due to the fact(SIM or not) the products being traded are LEGAL in the USA. Once again, use the proven, reliable...
I hold the opinion that if they shut down CFD's for this industry, Futures are likely to have more crimes due to the centralized nature of the product and its regulations. Its just a matter of resources and time.
  • #42,526
  • Sep 26, 2024 10:57am Sep 26, 2024 10:57am
Quoting Capablanca
FTT model is unsustainable, we already discussed it here. The futures arena will be just like forex one. This guys seem very shady, to say the least, and still they had the Rythmic. I would not count on Rythmic or Tradovate to police this futures industry.
Hi Capablanca,

The whole prop industry is a 100 story "House of Cards" that will soon come tumbling down even the futures side. The glue that is holding it together is the enforcement so far from the government & even that will fail to stem the tsunami that lies ahead. I certainly may be wrong, but don't think so. We shall see.
Having said that I'm planning to give a TopStepX a go in early October as that firm seems to be intact for now. Will continue to maintain a private futures account at a non-prop firm broker. Thank you for your views. Best of trades to you.
  • #42,527
  • Sep 26, 2024 11:09am Sep 26, 2024 11:09am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I truly think, MFF was not shut down because of the model, maybe disguised as such. I believe it was simply due to offering CFDs in the USA..... regardless of why the CFTC says they acted. Then of course, Metatrader felt threatened de to providing the software where illegal activity was taking place. Everything cascaded from there. With that being said, I believe the futures props, as long as they don't outright scam folks, are OK due to the fact(SIM or not) the products being traded are LEGAL in the USA. Once again, use the proven, reliable...
pipmaster77,

I agree 100%. It seems MFF tried to offer something to please all traders & the CFD's cause their demise. That reminds me of the tale of "The Miller, His Son & their Ass." The moral of that tale is Trying to Please Everyone will cause you to lose your ASS in the process. Just my views. The tale is funny.
  • #42,528
  • Sep 26, 2024 11:27am Sep 26, 2024 11:27am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I truly think, MFF was not shut down because of the model, maybe disguised as such. I believe it was simply due to offering CFDs in the USA..... regardless of why the CFTC says they acted. Then of course, Metatrader felt threatened de to providing the software where illegal activity was taking place. Everything cascaded from there. With that being said, I believe the futures props, as long as they don't outright scam folks, are OK due to the fact(SIM or not) the products being traded are LEGAL in the USA. Once again, use the proven, reliable...
That (CFD’s) and the business model they did not like. Regardless if it was out their authority. I remember reading thru the assorted docs at the time and it became obvious that they did not like the model at all.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #42,529
  • Sep 26, 2024 11:31am Sep 26, 2024 11:31am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} bad things will come to futures, it is just a question of when.
IMO, the graveyard of sketchy payment denials is going to trigger it. Someone who got burned is going to catch the attention of regulators.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #42,530
  • Sep 26, 2024 12:15pm Sep 26, 2024 12:15pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} That (CFD’s) and the business model they did not like. Regardless if it was out their authority. I remember reading thru the assorted docs at the time and it became obvious that they did not like the model at all.
That's what I mean by disguising it as not liking the model....reading through the docs you would think they didn't like the model......but it is an alphabet agency, can you really trust what they state vs. their more probable agenda?
  • #42,531
  • Sep 26, 2024 12:18pm Sep 26, 2024 12:18pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} IMO, the graveyard of sketchy payment denials is going to trigger it. Someone who got burned is going to catch the attention of regulators.
Goes back to the point I ALWAYS go back to.....if everyone would just use the firms that pay, the others would have no business, nobody gets scammed and the unwanted attention never comes.
I place 90% of the blame on the idiots who use these companies when there are so many better options......same thing happened in forex......we had some very solid offerings but, no, let me use scammenow.com becuase they are $10 cheaper and have 0.000002% less target....that will surely make me a better trader.
  • #42,532
  • Sep 26, 2024 12:20pm Sep 26, 2024 12:20pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} IMO, the graveyard of sketchy payment denials is going to trigger it. Someone who got burned is going to catch the attention of regulators.
Yep, the party will go on until the number of people feeling robbed is too much for authorities to ignore.
  • #42,533
  • Sep 26, 2024 12:33pm Sep 26, 2024 12:33pm
Closing day at new ATH

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Darwin rank 0926.PNG Size: 11 KB


Cannot reiterate enough the ease of trading without rules, trailing DD, etc, etc....I'm in the red in my prop accounts today, Darwin and personal up 0.60% today.
  • #42,534
  • Sep 26, 2024 1:07pm Sep 26, 2024 1:07pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} That's what I mean by disguising it as not liking the model....reading through the docs you would think they didn't like the model......but it is an alphabet agency, can you really trust what they state vs. their more probable agenda?
Pretty much. I recall reading thru and even the pushback from MFF stated as much. Regulators gave themselves wide latitude, MFF's lawyers pushed back stating the business model is outside their stated authority.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #42,535
  • Sep 26, 2024 1:16pm Sep 26, 2024 1:16pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Closing day at new ATH {image} {image} Cannot reiterate enough the ease of trading without rules, trailing DD, etc, etc....I'm in the red in my prop accounts today, Darwin and personal up 0.60% today.
Props OK now, got a runner on NAS
  • #42,536
  • Sep 26, 2024 1:44pm Sep 26, 2024 1:44pm
OK. Hurricane prep time. Bands swinging in.
  • #42,537
  • Edited 4:06pm Sep 26, 2024 3:42pm | Edited 4:06pm
Quoting maltrader
My friend tried to get a payout on alpha, but was flagged for gambling because of large daily drawdowns. Was offered 25% of the original 80% split.
was this on alpha futures or regular?...how many dollars cca?
  • #42,538
  • Edited 9:55pm Sep 26, 2024 7:13pm | Edited 9:55pm
Quoting 21vs7
{quote} was this on alpha futures or regular?...how many dollars cca?
Regular. Not sure what cca means but the payout requested was around 4k.
  • #42,539
  • Sep 26, 2024 7:24pm Sep 26, 2024 7:24pm
Quoting sampat
I think they are fishy but my concern is if APEX is able to stay afloat after making so many payouts why will not fast track survive. Their fees is like equal to apex or even expensive with all failure challenges and PA fees into consideration. Failure rate of traders will be same.
-For the same reason that Kmart failed but Walmart didn't... because more people shopped at Walmart.
  • #42,540
  • Sep 26, 2024 7:25pm Sep 26, 2024 7:25pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
That (CFD’s) and the business model they did not like. Regardless if it was out their authority. I remember reading thru the assorted docs at the time and it became obvious that they did not like the model at all.
-Yes. I imagine that they likely were just giving attention to those things in an effort to artificially add more weight to their case, even though they knew that it was not part of their jurisdictional scope.
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