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  • #39,921
  • Jul 28, 2024 11:32am Jul 28, 2024 11:32am
Passed additional 100k Alpha, but they rejected me; saying that I spammed the order book.

Spamming of the order book (placing multiple positions within the same second).
Well, still I cant deny doing this; as layering - for further partial SL or TPs... like trading 4times inside one second, and then close one after x minutes and so on..

Did anybody got rejected because of this practices?
  • #39,922
  • Edited 11:48am Jul 28, 2024 11:36am | Edited 11:48am
Quoting 21vs7
Passed additional 100k Alpha, but they rejected me; saying that I spammed the order book. Spamming of the order book (placing multiple positions within the same second). Well, still I cant deny doing this; as layering - for further partial SL or TPs... like trading 4times inside one second, and then close one after x minutes and so on.. Did anybody got rejected because of this practices?
That is ridiculous. That is no HFT, just multiple entries. And you are not placing 100s of orders such kind. So telling you, you would spam the order book, hahaha.
Also there is no terminology around spamming, there is spoofing, but that is of course nothing. They are just showing that they are amateurs and want to get rid of you.
  • #39,923
  • Edited 11:50am Jul 28, 2024 11:39am | Edited 11:50am
Quoting 21vs7
Ascend X payed me 2,5k ...but the process was slow - more than 3-5 weeks of not trading...I dont know.. Maybe, when I will get a new account, so I can trade new payout...ill report if anything.
That is the other thing you and everybody else need to calculate in too. Because when you cannot trade for that long time as it is usualy nowadays even for many FX props, where you are waiting weeks for trading again. You can miss a lot of good trading opportunities. In that waiting time you have no chance to make some profits with the prop. On personal broker account there is no such thing. That is why it makes no sense anymore for a regular profitable trader to trade with prop firms. Just too many restrictions and limits, where you could make more profits with your personal. This prop firm place is only a paradise for reverse cheaters, and sorts of.

I lost $25k this year because of new rules applied backwards and huge waiting times like over one week where I could not trade. I made only 20k net this year. If I only traded my personal I would have made more money than with prop firms. But I still had to deal with prop firms in the year of 2024. I regret this, but it is past now.
  • #39,924
  • Jul 28, 2024 12:11pm Jul 28, 2024 12:11pm
Quoting labu
Sure https://nexusfi.com/showthread.php?t=60734 . Although according to him he did get $70k USD so far from Apex up until June. Now suddenly it seems they pull the breaks?
-Maybe I am missing something, but I do not see the issue here. As far as why they are asking for proof, it could either be because his trading style was erroneously flagged again, or, because they are considering switching him over to live. Just my guess, but that size of a payout should not be very meaningful for Apex.
  • #39,925
  • Jul 28, 2024 12:25pm Jul 28, 2024 12:25pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} I have a personal accounts as well which are in very good shape. Plus you're missing the point Prop firm is a business venture for me. If i net 100k in 9 months that means good business returns. So i should grow it more not the other way around stop it. As i always say everyone has different goals, plans and mindset or if you dont have you should have one then you can progressively work towards your goal. MINE IS CLEAR - I WANT TO BE MULTI MILLIONAIRE IN MINIMUM POSSIBLE TIME . I want Lambo now not when i am 60
Monty is correct; we must view prop trading firms as businesses. The key consideration is the balance between investment and returns. If one can invest a few hundred dollars to potentially earn several thousand dollars, it is a compelling opportunity.

In addition to trading through prop firms, I also manage a personal trading account. I adhere to more stringent rules and exercise greater caution with my personal live account compared to the guidelines set by prop firms.

Most of my losses have occurred when I held trades for too long, hoping the market would move in my favor, or when I added to losing positions.

Experienced futures traders have taught me to avoid these practices. Instead, focusing on small, consistent profits multiple times a day has proven to be the most effective strategy.
Drawdown is more important than Account Size !
  • #39,926
  • Jul 28, 2024 12:29pm Jul 28, 2024 12:29pm
Quoting labu
{quote} Sure https://nexusfi.com/showthread.php?t=60734 . Although according to him he did get $70k USD so far from Apex up until June. Now suddenly it seems they pull the breaks? Still $70k is not bad from a bucket shop deluxe. No idea however how they can sustain those kind of payouts to traders like that. So perhaps $70k is the sweet spot limit for some futures prop firms. After that one should be happy and go trade on personal account.
How many % that 70k? How much percentage gain he had?
fooled by randomness in art
Meditation All Time Return: 8.9%
  • #39,927
  • Jul 28, 2024 1:33pm Jul 28, 2024 1:33pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} That is the other thing you and everybody else need to calculate in too. Because when you cannot trade for that long time as it is usualy nowadays even for many FX props, where you are waiting weeks for trading again. You can miss a lot of good trading opportunities. In that waiting time you have no chance to make some profits with the prop. On personal broker account there is no such thing. That is why it makes no sense anymore for a regular profitable trader to trade with prop firms. Just too many restrictions and limits, where you could...
I understand you, I also lost a certain amount, because when I bought an account on a prop firm, it was possible to trade, and now they are constantly changing the rules, even the prop firm FundingPips (this is not an advertisement) is a bad firm, but I still think that for a person who has knowledge but a deposit of up to 10k, then prop is a good way to increase the deposit very quickly, and then it's a matter of small things if the person who trades is not stupid
  • #39,928
  • Jul 28, 2024 1:38pm Jul 28, 2024 1:38pm
Quoting 21vs7
Passed additional 100k Alpha, but they rejected me; saying that I spammed the order book. Spamming of the order book (placing multiple positions within the same second). Well, still I cant deny doing this; as layering - for further partial SL or TPs... like trading 4times inside one second, and then close one after x minutes and so on.. Did anybody got rejected because of this practices?
Unfortunately, the rules are changing every day, even the same rules that you can't open a position before red news appeared recently this year, every year it's getting worse and worse, but prop companies will not disappear, but they will change a lot, a lot.


Yes, they just took my account because they thought it was a bot or a professional trader who had information that an ordinary person doesn't have, although this is just nonsense, I'm grateful that they returned the money, but I was blacklisted

  • #39,929
  • Jul 28, 2024 1:44pm Jul 28, 2024 1:44pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Maybe I am missing something, but I do not see the issue here. As far as why they are asking for proof, it could either be because his trading style was erroneously flagged again, or, because they are considering switching him over to live. Just my guess, but that size of a payout should not be very meaningful for Apex.
It does seem as if futures prop firms do pull the breaks once they notice someone is very profitable continuously not just by "luck" and start coming with excuses as in the Topstep case awhile ago. Its just common sense from their business view to maintain paying the few traders whos profitable up to a certain limit. I cannot see how they would allow someone to do 220k USD a year as that guy which he would do if he kept going using 80% discounts and 10 accounts. Kinda self evident.
  • #39,930
  • Jul 28, 2024 2:12pm Jul 28, 2024 2:12pm
Quoting labu
{quote} It does seem as if futures prop firms do pull the breaks once they notice someone is very profitable continuously not just by "luck" and start coming with excuses as in the Topstep case awhile ago. Its just common sense from their business view to maintain paying the few traders whos profitable up to a certain limit. I cannot see how they would allow someone to do 220k USD a year as that guy which he would do if he kept going using 80% discounts and 10 accounts. Kinda self evident.
Yeah, like FXIFY as broker based FX poop is doing it from a smaller level already. Just do not get it. Why not A-booking those and make a ton of money WITH THEM ??
I mean if I had access to those traders data and I see such consistency I would bet "my farm" on it and make the most out of it going with. It is really too stupid.
  • #39,931
  • Jul 28, 2024 2:20pm Jul 28, 2024 2:20pm
It cannot be so difficult. As big prop firm they have access to all trades. Just take the top 5 traders and then go +1000% with them, so 10 fold their size. It is possible if they do not scalp. If they trade liquid instrument you could also trade correlated instruments with them too, to get bigger size into market. But of course you need some trading knowledge. Also there is no perfect trader, so the chance that they can go into a trade with little bit of drawdown from the trader they can get better fills. But you need to be able to trade or need good programmed algos. It is definitely all possible. I even would pay the prop firm to get those data realtime and I am pretty sure I could make a ton of money with those data. But of course if only non experienced traders and beginners on all other business fields are hired, they are just too stupid.
  • #39,932
  • Jul 28, 2024 2:23pm Jul 28, 2024 2:23pm
For example at Heldental prop you can get realtime best traders trades, but you need to pay the hole nonsense course with them, so $5k or so, to get those data. It is I think only some stocks intraday. But they also offer FX and Futures. Do not know if you can get those best traders Ranking trades too in realtime of course. If anyone have experience with that, then please describe it here. 2 years ago I asked them for their realtime traders trades only subscription, but they denied it. Too bad.
  • #39,933
  • Jul 28, 2024 3:37pm Jul 28, 2024 3:37pm
Quoting Fimgo
{quote} Unfortunately, the rules are changing every day, even the same rules that you can't open a position before red news appeared recently this year, every year it's getting worse and worse, but prop companies will not disappear, but they will change a lot, a lot. Yes, they just took my account because they thought it was a bot or a professional trader who had information that an ordinary person doesn't have, although this is just nonsense, I'm grateful that they returned the money, but I was blacklisted
As long as such proven amateurs are in such a poop firm, you can only expect the worst. To be honest, I would not give them a dime if they had a brokerage behind.
  • #39,934
  • Edited 4:58pm Jul 28, 2024 3:55pm | Edited 4:58pm
This whole industry is made of cheap. It is like buying $1 for a pair of shoes from Kongo or China. They barely pay $400 per month for a support staff. I guess it is even lower $200 for a humans work. Then they need to write in english of course but they live in India or where ? All made cheap, starting from $3k for a white label prop and so on. I mean where is the quality behind. For such a pair of shoes you wouldn't expect to walk longer than 1 mile or ?. All a rush into who has the cheapest setup...and then with their $50k total investment they wanna do 1 million per month in 6 to 12 month or earlier. I mean if there is any business with such returns in reality, everyone would jump into. Even Goldman Sachs would have their division. But no...so the reality is far different from prop firm CEOs expectations. Guess what, they had no idea from trading and brokerage and business at all, for most of them. They think it is better than trading because who the f**k is doing 1 million per month with just 50k investment in just about a few months. Just jiggle and hire and then voila the Lambo and speedboat can be purchased. Those are the real dreamers, not the trader as customer who wants to build his personal account a bit faster. It seems they cannot calculate at all too. And then having no idea at all. Huh.
  • #39,935
  • Jul 28, 2024 5:09pm Jul 28, 2024 5:09pm
The problem is that anyone can start with so low capital and no requirements at all, even a criminal history one, and then 6 months later rug pull without any punishment, it seems actually so, that they just use some fancy website do get the cash from hard earned money and then when they have a mill together they see thy cannot do all payouts, a) start to scam b) and then shortly after rug pull and take the money home. It is like financial crime. Regulation here is really needed, or there is no end of such rug pulls. Of course regulation makes it more costly, but it is also kind of protection that you are no victim of wellthought crime of a rugpull beforehand. To have both worlds together where everyone can choose what (s)he wants, it should be optionable, like on brokers. Where you can opt to be a regulated one, or a non-regulated at all. So if one chooses are non-regulated prop then it is own risk, that a payout get denied for no reason. Wheres on a regulated prop you could expect some safety, whatever it will look like.
  • #39,936
  • Jul 29, 2024 1:53am Jul 29, 2024 1:53am
The biggest problem is giving some gambler a 200k account which he can luckily trade to 50k profit. The max initial allocation should be very low, maybe only 5k max without any challenge phase like Buoy is doing. This will allow them to weed out the long term profitable traders for a-booking them. Let's say you have 100 traders in a-book on average with 50K equity each. The total book would then be 5 million. The total capital risk for the prop would be 10% or 500K. Let's presume that 20% fail each month. That would mean a 100K loss on the book which needs to be covered by the profitable a-book traders and new challenge fees. If each of the 80% profitable traders make 2% profit on average (1K on a 50K account), the a-book loss would be 20k which would require some 200 new $100 purchases per month in order for the prop to break even.
In order for the prop to get 100 a-book traders they would have had to sell probably some 10000 accounts receiving $100x10000=$1 million. From that there would have been payouts for the traders completing several phases before being moved from b to a-book. I'm estimating that 1% of the traders will eventually reach the a-book level although the number could be even less.

These are obviously very rough numbers but I think we will see more this type of challenges in the future. Buoy has been running their model since 2020 so it's likely working well for them. Stocknet failed but that was for some other reasons.
  • #39,937
  • Jul 29, 2024 2:05am Jul 29, 2024 2:05am
Quoting 21vs7
Ascend X payed me 2,5k ...but the process was slow - more than 3-5 weeks of not trading...I dont know.. Maybe, when I will get a new account, so I can trade new payout...ill report if anything.
Ascendx is flooded with claims about delayed payout in X.
Good that you got it but your case just confirm what I have been seeing in the last 2 weeks.
  • #39,938
  • Jul 29, 2024 4:54am Jul 29, 2024 4:54am
Sway acquired MyFlash. In Flash the 2 phase challenge DD was static. In Sway there is contradictory information.
FAQs mentions a trailing DD based in the highest equity:
https://tinyurl.com/27ns7ztu
However the main page mentions that DD is from initial acct balance. Not sure which one is the correct.

I had a very old challenge running there, which I almost abandoned when they started having payouts problems. Now that was reactivated and reset when passed to sway.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #39,939
  • Jul 29, 2024 5:21am Jul 29, 2024 5:21am
Quoting Capablanca
Sway acquired MyFlash. In Flash the 2 phase challenge DD was static. In Sway there is contradictory information. FAQs mentions a trailing DD based in the highest equity: https://tinyurl.com/27ns7ztu However the main page mentions that DD is from initial acct balance. Not sure which one is the correct. I had a very old challenge running there, which I almost abandoned when they started having payouts problems. Now that was reactivated and reset when passed to sway. {image}
I believe they are resetting the funded accounts back to Phase 2. I have two funded accounts with them and now would have to trade them to 8% profit in order to get them funded again. According to Discord their DD is trailing based on high water mark. A refund have been promised to funded account holders as compensation for resetting the funded accounts back to phase 2. I would not have bothered to activate my account with Sway without the possibility to get a refund.
  • #39,940
  • Jul 29, 2024 6:19am Jul 29, 2024 6:19am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} I believe they are resetting the funded accounts back to Phase 2. I have two funded accounts with them and now would have to trade them to 8% profit in order to get them funded again. According to Discord their DD is trailing based on high water mark. A refund have been promised to funded account holders as compensation for resetting the funded accounts back to phase 2. I would not have bothered to activate my account with Sway without the possibility to get a refund.
If I'm not mistaken, the same situation happened recently with a company called FundedEngineer, they first rolled back everyone to phase 2 and then made discounts and after 2 months they declared themselves bankrupt
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