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Trading through VPS, any experience?

  • #21
  • Jul 9, 2007 2:16pm Jul 9, 2007 2:16pm
yes and no...

A virtual desktop/vps is not going to make the charting of OANDA's app any better. It is what it is.

A virtual desktop WILL help you with your speed issue. Since your trading app is running on the virtual desktop, it's not influenced in any way by your connection speed of 28.8Kbps.

The low connection speed of your desktop may make the virtual desktop a little less responsive (to you), but your app will be running at full speed. You may actually be surprised at how well the remote desktop connection works over slow connections.

Of course, on a virtual desktop you are the admin so you can install whatever you want.

Also...since it's a virtual desktop, you can leave your apps running even when you are not there. For example, if you are on the way to work you can simply disconnect from the desktop (leaving it running) and then reconnect from work to your running session. Your apps will still be there running...

I hope this is helpful.
BarrySDCA Commercial Network Services
  • #22
  • Jul 9, 2007 3:02pm Jul 9, 2007 3:02pm
Please forgive my ignorance but... what does a trader achieve by trading through a VPS? sorry, it's the first time I hear this term.
  • #23
  • Jul 9, 2007 7:27pm Jul 9, 2007 7:27pm
Let me begin responding by saying if you are trading from home/work and you have a fast and reliable Internet connection with no need to leave the terminal then you do not need a vps.

The majority of our virtual desktop subscribers are from outside the USA or trade from multiple locations. They are often on very slow or unreliable connections, or they may be using a laptop that needs to shutdown from time to time (and without stopping the trading applications). With a virtual desktop/vps they enjoy speed and connectivity greater than many people IN the USA (and in fact have a USA IP for their VE). It's the equivalent of you taking your computer into our datacenter and plugging in at the core switch.

It might help if I try and draw the VPS configuration. Please excuse my ASCII art:

||extremely fast Internet connection, to the backbone
||
||
[FIREWALL]
||
[VPS]--------subscriber on any speed Internet connection

Imagine you are the subscriber. You connect to the virtual desktop/vps through any means (I even use my mobile phone from time to time), but instead of running MT4 on your computer you instead run it in the virtual environment (VE). [a virtual desktop looks/acts just like regular windows...it is windows]

Notice how the Internet connection MT4 will use is actually the connection from the server to the backbone and not through the subscribers ISP? This is because the subscribers computer is merely a thin client at this point- it's only an access device. Only the keyboard/mouse/monitor/sound is sent to the subscriber so they can interact with the VE. (you actually can map drives between client and server too) The *program* is running on the server but the access device is the remote client.

So what happens if the subscribers Internet connection goes down while they are trading? The answer is they will lose connectivity to the VE, but the VE will continue to run the trading program and when they get back connected it will still be there as if they had never left. Any scripts that were programmed to hit at a special mark will still have excecuted because the VE never lost connectivy.

...did I mention high speed?

Another great feature is being able to bring your desktop to you. For example, you're logged into your VE from home and you are going to a friends or some other place...You don't need to logoff the VE, only disconnect. When you get to your friends or your laptop is booted, you can simply reconnect to the VE and your session will still be there as if you never left....even from a different machine. If you forgot to disconnect then you actually can logon to your VE (in a new session) and re-connect to the running session very easily.

I hope I answered more questions than I created....

Thank you,
BarrySDCA Commercial Network Services
  • #24
  • Jul 9, 2007 8:30pm Jul 9, 2007 8:30pm
Quoting rjay
Why would you want to run MT4 on a VPS ?!? Speaking as someone who has owned servers (including VPS's) for years, you can virtually guarantee that the server will be hacked into sooner rather than later and what do you think the hacker's going to do when he sees MT4 running with full access to your FX account ?

The risks far, far outweigh any perceived advantage of having MT4 running on a fast server IMHO.
I don't see any risk, when it is fully secured from your end.
Do you think it is easy to hack?
  • #25
  • Jul 10, 2007 8:13am Jul 10, 2007 8:13am
Of course this will depend on the provider and their network management policy, but as I said 6 posts up, it is my opinion that VPS's are SAFER than desktops. (scroll up)
BarrySDCA Commercial Network Services
  • #26
  • Jul 10, 2007 8:50am Jul 10, 2007 8:50am
Thanks Barry for the help.

I get my FREE trial to test out. So far, a bit slow since my broadband connection is not that optimum.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: vps.jpg Size: 33 KB
  • #27
  • Jul 10, 2007 9:02am Jul 10, 2007 9:02am
Quoting kihl
Hello

Does anyone have any experience trading through Virtual Private servers?
I checked vpsland.com and I have no idea of what Windows VPS hosting plans to choose.
It is possible to manual trade your account running a Metatrader application on the VPS?

Thanks
I personally used Godaddy VPS. It was great for the first 6 weeks then they changed their policy. If you are inactive for 15 minutes they log you off. This means that they close all your running programs. I eventually cancelled my account. There is a workaround this problem that you can run MT4 or your other applications as a service but then when you can't see the trading platform by default so if your system draws an obejct on the chart it never appears there.

Anyway, nowadays I have a solution in place that helped me to forget about using a VPS or VDS or whatever they call it.

  1. I've got a reliable internet service (a cable) from a local company
  2. There is a UPS attached to my computer so power interruption won't turn it off (or actually turn them because I use 3 computers for trading and analysis)
  3. If for some reason the computer turns off I have setup the BIOS to automatically turn it on. I've also setup startup to run my trading platforms automatically.
  4. I use GotoMyPC to connect remotely to my computer. So if I'm away from my computer I can get connected to it and monitor my trading platforms and more.

I hope this helps.

Good Luck,
Al

  • #28
  • Jul 10, 2007 7:12pm Jul 10, 2007 7:12pm
I've never heard of that happening. I suppose each provider can configure their machines as they will. It sounds like they had something running on the screen saver, which you should disable anyway. It's your VPS, you should be able to stay logged on all week if you want to. I do...

zamans: you should not be running slow. If your conection is very bad then the interface might be a little slow, but the program should still be running real fast. If you are not experinecing this then simply open a ticket and support WILL help you.

Also, if you are a new VPS (which you are) then it will initially be setup on the same hardware node as all the other new VE's until it's migrated to a proper node. We do this because trial users come in all the time and try to abuse our service, so we do what we can to isolate them. Generally 24-48 hours will do it, faster if you are logged off as we try not to migrate VE's while you are logged in (so it doesn't reoot on you).

thank you

Quoting aparsai
I personally used Godaddy VPS. It was great for the first 6 weeks then they changed their policy. If you are inactive for 15 minutes they log you off. This means that they close all your running programs. I eventually cancelled my account. There is a workaround this problem that you can run MT4 or your other applications as a service but then when you can't see the trading platform by default so if your system draws an obejct on the chart it never appears there.

Anyway, nowadays I have a solution in place that helped me to forget about using a VPS or VDS or whatever they call it.

  1. I've got a reliable internet service (a cable) from a local company
  2. There is a UPS attached to my computer so power interruption won't turn it off (or actually turn them because I use 3 computers for trading and analysis)
  3. If for some reason the computer turns off I have setup the BIOS to automatically turn it on. I've also setup startup to run my trading platforms automatically.
  4. I use GotoMyPC to connect remotely to my computer. So if I'm away from my computer I can get connected to it and monitor my trading platforms and more.

I hope this helps.

Good Luck,
Al

BarrySDCA Commercial Network Services
  • #29
  • Jul 11, 2007 7:35am Jul 11, 2007 7:35am
Quoting BarrySDCA
I've never heard of that happening. I suppose each provider can configure their machines as they will. It sounds like they had something running on the screen saver, which you should disable anyway. It's your VPS, you should be able to stay logged on all week if you want to. I do...

zamans: you should not be running slow. If your conection is very bad then the interface might be a little slow, but the program should still be running real fast. If you are not experinecing this then simply open a ticket and support WILL help you.

Also, if you are a new VPS (which you are) then it will initially be setup on the same hardware node as all the other new VE's until it's migrated to a proper node. We do this because trial users come in all the time and try to abuse our service, so we do what we can to isolate them. Generally 24-48 hours will do it, faster if you are logged off as we try not to migrate VE's while you are logged in (so it doesn't reoot on you).

thank you
VPS/VDS is a virtual server not a true server so you are constraint by the rules set by the main admin. They changed their policy and I didn't have enough privileges to deal with it, so eventually I quit. I am currently quite happy with my setup.
  • #30
  • Jul 11, 2007 7:35am Jul 11, 2007 7:35am
I have ran metatrader 4 under wine. It works fine, though there are a few issues with interface boxes. The editor doesn't work very well at all. If all you want to do is run an EA, then you can easily do it with wine.

That being said, never use a VPS for financial data. You will get hacked, you will lose all of your money.

Buy your own server, or lease a server at a colocation center. I suggest serverbeach.com (im not affiliated with them).


Edited to add: UltraVNC is faster/better than remote desktop.
So far so good.
  • #31
  • Jul 11, 2007 9:55am Jul 11, 2007 9:55am
Geez, all kinds of info out there. BarrySDCA, thanks for your very clear explanation about v-desktops.
paul2, the UltraVNC looks to be an efficient way to get around my problem except for the fact that I cannot load anything onto my work laptop.

I'm looking for a way to connect/interface to a family member's computer (they have internet through cable) from my work laptop because 28.8 is reall slow and the connection is very unreliable.
The orders and my live/funded account are on my work laptop which is relatively secure so I don't think there is any potential harm to losing my account to hackers, well, at least greatly diminished comparted to my home computer.
No harm in trying the v-desktop through a free trial...
  • #32
  • Jul 11, 2007 10:07am Jul 11, 2007 10:07am
to Paul2,
Have you personally experienced someone hacking into your VPS? Do you know of anyone personally that this has happened to? Let's face it, my high speed home connection could get hacked too, so I see more security in a VPS, but then, maybe I am missing something.
  • #33
  • Jul 11, 2007 11:32am Jul 11, 2007 11:32am
Just read somewhere that one has to download something onto the computer (which I can't) to initiate/access a v-desktop. BarrySDCA is that true? If so, I guess I'm back to finding a comp. prog. out there to create an interface for me...
  • #34
  • Jul 11, 2007 11:47am Jul 11, 2007 11:47am
Quoting bhale
to Paul2,
Have you personally experienced someone hacking into your VPS? Do you know of anyone personally that this has happened to? Let's face it, my high speed home connection could get hacked too, so I see more security in a VPS, but then, maybe I am missing something.
Yes. One person was 'hacked' by an admin, another person was hacked because the site never updated vulnerable services. You would be much more secure with a dsl connection and some sort of a server behind a firewall in your own home than you would leaving things to others. I recommend hosting your own server, or leasing a private server, is because you will have total control over things.

Aside from all that, this is your money so why would you want someone else to have control over it?
So far so good.
  • #35
  • Jul 11, 2007 11:48am Jul 11, 2007 11:48am
Quoting CentrOn
Just read somewhere that one has to download something onto the computer (which I can't) to initiate/access a v-desktop. BarrySDCA is that true? If so, I guess I'm back to finding a comp. prog. out there to create an interface for me...
mstsc is built in if you're connecting to a 2k+ box, or if you use something like ultravnc, you can put the client app on a flash drive.
So far so good.
  • #36
  • Jul 11, 2007 1:37pm Jul 11, 2007 1:37pm
Quoting paul2
mstsc is built in if you're connecting to a 2k+ box, or if you use something like ultravnc, you can put the client app on a flash drive.
Hey paul2, thanks for the reply. But...........mstsc? 2k+ box? Flash drive?

Would really appreciate you walking me through this if you don't mind.

Looking forward to getting to the bottom of this so I can get back to trading.
  • #37
  • Jul 11, 2007 3:28pm Jul 11, 2007 3:28pm
Yes it would be nice to host it in my home, but my cable internet seems to cycle once or twice a day. I have to unplug the modem for 5 minutes then plug back in. Maybe a dedicated server would work, since I would be the only one with access, but they are at least $150 per month. I'm also looking inot co-location. I supply the server, they supply the 99% internet connection
  • #38
  • Jul 11, 2007 4:35pm Jul 11, 2007 4:35pm
Quoting bhale
Yes it would be nice to host it in my home, but my cable internet seems to cycle once or twice a day. I have to unplug the modem for 5 minutes then plug back in. Maybe a dedicated server would work, since I would be the only one with access, but they are at least $150 per month. I'm also looking inot co-location. I supply the server, they supply the 99% internet connection
Off the topic; I don't know how cable internet works where your located but your service sounds very unacceptable. My cable internet has not needed a hard reset for many months. Maybe once a year. It resets itself after a disruption about once a month. I'm sure there are more very short interruptions but not long enough to register in any log files. Your cable provider should be able to come to your house and check the signal quality online. If they need to they can then check the cable with a scope / analyzer and check the signal strength and a couple of other settings they can adjust at the exterior service connection point. At the same time they can check your modem. They did this for me about 3 years ago and I have had no problems since. Prior to the service call I was running at about 40 percent of advertised download speed and had some reset problems. Now all I can complain about is the price.
  • #39
  • Jul 11, 2007 9:43pm Jul 11, 2007 9:43pm
paul2: I can't disagree more for the reasons I already posted.

bhale: dedicated server is overkill. this is why virtualization was invented. in fact, most dedicated servers are significantly under utilized. This is an undisputable fact. Drives and virtual environments are totally isolated. They only share the common 'hooks' into the host OS. But the fact is you could have 10 different vps's on the same node, each acting as it's own domain controller with it's own users, files, permissions, etc.. The sharing is really only in resources...cpu cycles, ram, disk.

Now I should point out that there are shared files with virtual servers....well kind of. Let me explain.....In the hosting business, many people use the same applications and servers. SQL server (database server), Plesk (web/email)...they all share the same core applications. So instead of duplicating 10 separate full installs - at the expense of 10x the disk space - providers offer something called 'application templates'.

It may be easier to describe how an application template is made (very general description)...you take a clean VE and install the application into it. There is a special program we use to record the differences, files, registry settings, etc.. The full install (the changes) are recorded into a file package that is stored in one central location on the server (this makes updates easily manageable). So how do those files get shared to all the VE's?? The VE's themselves have small pointer files...0K actually. So here the subscriber benefits because disk space for template applications is NOT counted against their quota.

This does not affect data because the template pointers are read only. If any VE writes to it then it's like a new file and the pointer no longer exists in the VE. This is highly secure and extremely efficient!

I'm sure some people are asking how they can not share any files...easy...just download and install the program without using the templates.

also...there is a free program called VNC (winVNC) that lets you connect to your home pc from another location. You need to run the VNC client. I have one on my mobile phone too. It's open source...I think bell labs made it a long time ago. google it, I'm sure you will find it. 'win vnc'. You will need to open a few ports at your firewall and map them to your computer. It might be helpful to also setup a box to let you cycle the power in case the computer hangs and you need to get back on quickly.

CentrOn: You don't need to download anything. If you are running Windows then you probably already have the remote desktop client installed (start->programs->communications->remote desktop client

Another option is to use the web applet. You can get there by pointing your browser to port 4643 of your virtual desktops IP. (http://virtualdesktopop:4643)
BarrySDCA Commercial Network Services
  • #40
  • Jul 11, 2007 10:09pm Jul 11, 2007 10:09pm
Windows already comes with remote desktop. I use to connect to my other house all the time, a little laggy because the other house has a slower broadband package but it dosent bother me too much.
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