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MTF Engulf / Engulf fail

  • #3,001
  • May 24, 2024 3:00am May 24, 2024 3:00am
GU:

Daily
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4H
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1H
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Success = Practice + Patience + Persistence
  • #3,002
  • May 24, 2024 8:47pm May 24, 2024 8:47pm
Quoting Inthebox
{image}
week closed above previous week low
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ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #3,003
  • May 24, 2024 10:09pm May 24, 2024 10:09pm
Quoting Inthebox
{quote} week closed above previous week low {image}
so it means that price will test high of this week ?
Love for all; Hatred for none.
  • #3,004
  • Edited May 25, 2024 4:18pm May 24, 2024 11:21pm | Edited May 25, 2024 4:18pm
Hi IBT - appreciate you sharing the knowledge and this thread.. Love this style of trading.

I'm curious about your SL placement. I'm trying to simplify and follow King Zulfan's trading strategy:
- Within a H4 zone ==> m30 trade control (early entry from a previous m30 eg/ef or m30 eg/ef formed at CMP ==> m15 EG or m5 EF entry at CMP.
- Typically I'd aim for (for Gold) 30pip SL and 60pip TP.. but this is perhaps overly simplified.

I know some Malaysian engulfing traders don't even use a SL, and simply Cut Losses if the entry zone is breached (a candle close outside the entry or trade control zone); but being new to this strategy, this would be foolish for me as I'm not yet confident in the movement.

In my case: Would you place the SL just below the entry zone (m15 EG/EF), or the m30 trade control zone?

BTW - that EGSolutions FX trader is a beast.

Thanks
  • #3,005
  • May 24, 2024 11:53pm May 24, 2024 11:53pm
Quoting aahmad29
{quote} so it means that price will test high of this week ?
no. it may not reach there.
it only means it is going that direction until it is not going.
until when there's misalignment of time frames.
maybe one quarter of the way, or half, or three quarter or all the way.
nobody knows. who dare to claim he knows. lol.
ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #3,006
  • May 25, 2024 4:53am May 25, 2024 4:53am
gold.
some broker has h4 eg buy. some don't but showed up in h1.
i am looking for some lower time frames snrc or qm patterns in the engulf zone when market opens.
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ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #3,007
  • Edited 7:40am May 25, 2024 7:27am | Edited 7:40am
Quoting Inthebox
gold. some broker has h4 eg buy. some don't but showed up in h1. i am looking for some lower time frames snrc or qm patterns in the engulf zone when market opens. {image}
My broker H4 chart is here.
Green arrow shows bullish engulfing and then price came back to that area. I think once H4 candle close outside engulfing zone then further movement will be decided.
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Love for all; Hatred for none.
  • #3,008
  • May 25, 2024 9:10am May 25, 2024 9:10am
Quoting aahmad29
{quote} My broker H4 chart is here. Green arrow shows bullish engulfing and then price came back to that area. I think once H4 candle close outside engulfing zone then further movement will be decided. {image}
you are waiting for h4 to close outside engulf zone?
this means you wait for 2 h4 engulfs. how long will that be?
but the present h4 engulf is already having a d1 engulf.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...4#post14878314
i thought you are a scalper.
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...3#post14876723
ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #3,009
  • May 25, 2024 9:32am May 25, 2024 9:32am
Quoting Huber
Hi IBT - appreciate you sharing the knowledge and this thread.. Love this style of trading. I'm curious about your SL placement. I'm trying to simplify and follow King Zulfan's trading strategy: - Within a H4 zone ==> m30 trade control (early entry from a previous m30 eg/ef or m30 eg/ef formed at CMP ==> m15 EG or m5 EF entry at CMP. - Typically I'd aim for (for Gold) 30pip SL and 60pip TP.. but this is perhaps overly simplified. I know some Malaysian engulfing traders don't even use a SL, and simply Cut Losses if the entry zone is breached (a candle...
your post appeared late as a new member, i could have miss it if i did not look back.
you have to post 5 more posts to have your posts appear faster.

i would say SL is a very individual thing, depending on different scenarios and how risk averse one is.
from post 1 as a guide: SL is a candle closed at SR of about 40 pips)
SR can be on any time frame so long around 40 pips.
but it is not written on stone.
one scenario is if i decides to average out with 4 or 5 entries instead of one big position size, i would not be so stringent on the SL for first the one or two entries.
another scenario is that if i had made profit the previous day/week, the profit can be used as my today SL, which could be double or triple that of the standard guide.
of course one must have the previous profits in the first place to offset any loss, so that it won't eat into the capital.
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ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #3,010
  • May 25, 2024 2:15pm May 25, 2024 2:15pm
Quoting Inthebox
{quote} you are waiting for h4 to close outside engulf zone? this means you wait for 2 h4 engulfs. how long will that be? but the present h4 engulf is already having a d1 engulf. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...4#post14878314 i thought you are a scalper. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...3#post14876723
This whole engulfing method is new for me but I
am learning scalping. I wasn’t convinced to do scalping just on the based of trend lines. I use daily and H4 TF for trading but first time I am getting some logic of scalping. Engulfing really makes sense and makes easy to understand.

In general I am full time employee so I can do scalping only in my off days because it is very time consuming. I am not comfortable with M1 TF so I prefer m30 and m5 for scalping. What I leaned that we can find perfect entry but we need lots of patience and screen time. Waiting game is very necessary for engulfing method. I am also learning how to implement bigger and lower TF. I never used weekly TF but now I have started using it.
For me learning never stops , it doesn’t matter what type of trader you are.
Love for all; Hatred for none.
  • #3,011
  • May 25, 2024 2:22pm May 25, 2024 2:22pm
Quoting Inthebox
{quote} you are waiting for h4 to close outside engulf zone? this means you wait for 2 h4 engulfs. how long will that be? but the present h4 engulf is already having a d1 engulf. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...4#post14878314 i thought you are a scalper. https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...3#post14876723
I am only waiting for weekly bearish engulfing candle for confirmation of change of trend. Double top will be confirmed after engulfing candle. In the meantime I am doing scalping.
Love for all; Hatred for none.
  • #3,012
  • May 25, 2024 3:20pm May 25, 2024 3:20pm
Quoting Inthebox
{quote} your post appeared late as a new member, i could have miss it if i did not look back. you have to post 5 more posts to have your posts appear faster. i would say SL is a very individual thing, depending on different scenarios and how risk averse one is. from post 1 as a guide: SL is a candle closed at SR of about 40 pips) SR can be on any time frame so long around 40 pips. but it is not written on stone. one scenario is if i decides to average out with 4 or 5 entries instead of one big position size, i would not be so stringent on the SL...
Thanks ITB. That makes sense, and i like your idea of averaging our multiple positions.. and yes, I thought you might miss my post.
  • #3,013
  • Edited May 26, 2024 4:00pm May 25, 2024 4:02pm | Edited May 26, 2024 4:00pm
Hi ITB - in this post talking about entries =>
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...2#post14742022

You mention that your preference is to enter upon close of the candle: "when price retest the engulf, entry when price is above the top of the box.
it can be during the move up or upon candle close. my preference is candle close."

Are you referring to the close of the candle that caused the retest of the entry zone? And what if that candle closes within the zone: must you wait for exit of the zone for a higher probability trade? Or do you wait for the first candle that closes outside the entry zone after its been tested? (sometimes these are the same candle, but not always).

Perhaps this isn't so important, but curious how you view the world.

NOTE: my backtesting shows that waiting for candle close outside of entry zone helps the win rate vs entry upon touch

Thanks in advance.
  • #3,014
  • Edited 5:28pm May 26, 2024 5:16pm | Edited 5:28pm
Quoting Inthebox
{quote} week closed above previous week low {image}
further to the weekend analysis, if everyone has no ambiguity on the htf direction, wouldn't everyone be trading in the same direction?
unless one is scared off by last week bearish candle close and has no confidence in the method. but we are trading rule based as per post 1.
why should we differ in the htf direction?
or do we lack patience in matching the lower time frames alignment?
if one managed to catch the up move in the asia session, then this is all that is needed for the day.
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ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #3,015
  • May 26, 2024 5:51pm May 26, 2024 5:51pm
Quoting Inthebox
{quote} further to the weekend analysis, if everyone has no ambiguity on the htf direction, wouldn't everyone be trading in the same direction? unless one is scared off by last week bearish candle close and has no confidence in the method. but we are trading rule based as per post 1. why should we differ in the htf direction? or do we lack patience in matching the lower time frames alignment? if one managed to catch the up move in the asia session, then this is all that is needed for the day. {image} {image} {image}
Am I marking this trade correctly for scalping ?

M30 bearish engulfing candle set direction. M5 chart price came back to eg zone and bearish engulfing candle generated which will entry. Exit will be bullish engulfing zone which you marked it.
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Love for all; Hatred for none.
  • #3,016
  • May 26, 2024 6:02pm May 26, 2024 6:02pm
Quoting Huber
Hi ITB - in this post talking about entries => https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...2#post14742022 You mention that your preference is to enter upon close of the candle: "when price retest the engulf, entry when price is above the top of the box. it can be during the move up or upon candle close. my preference is candle close." Are you referring to the close of the candle that caused the retest of the entry zone? And what if that candle closes within the zone: must you wait for exit of the zone for a higher probability trade?...
there were 2 time frames shown, one with the blue box engulf and one with the smaller time frame box engulf.
the entries were arrowed.
when there is a need for a smaller SL, precise to a smaller time frame.
entry was made upon close of the box engulf. need not wait to be outside of the larger blue engulf.
ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #3,017
  • May 26, 2024 6:11pm May 26, 2024 6:11pm
Quoting aahmad29
{quote} Am I marking this trade correctly for scalping ? M30 bearish engulfing candle set direction. M5 chart price came back to eg zone and bearish engulfing candle generated which will entry. Exit will be bullish engulfing zone which you marked it. {image} {image}
my view. but you have to be aware of the higher risk selling against the htf direction.
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ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #3,018
  • May 26, 2024 6:17pm May 26, 2024 6:17pm
Quoting Inthebox
{quote} my view. but you have to be aware of the higher risk selling against the htf direction. {image}
Oh you mentioned that for scalping I don’t need to worry about higher TF. If I am trading M30 and M5 then M30 is higher TF for scalping?
Love for all; Hatred for none.
  • #3,019
  • Edited 6:37pm May 26, 2024 6:22pm | Edited 6:37pm
Quoting Inthebox
{quote} there were 2 time frames shown, one with the blue box engulf and one with the smaller time frame box engulf. the entries were arrowed. when there is a need for a smaller SL, precise to a smaller time frame. entry was made upon close of the box engulf. need not wait to be outside of the larger blue engulf.
further examples of engulf retest and engulf without retest. the later case normally happens during news.
in normal trading, one has the option to split entries, one for engulf retest, the other without.
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ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
  • #3,020
  • May 26, 2024 6:23pm May 26, 2024 6:23pm
Quoting aahmad29
{quote} Oh you mentioned that for scalping I don’t need to worry about higher TF. If I am trading M30 and M5 then M30 is higher TF for scalping?
up to your own experience.
so long as you are comfortable taking the higher risk.
i do not advocate counter trend trades for those still learning.
they are for experienced traders.
see that? trend trading vs counter trend.
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ITB - Seeing Orderliness amongst 'Randomness'
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