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  • #31,701
  • Feb 24, 2024 10:57am Feb 24, 2024 10:57am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} I have dabbled in a few ways of approaching it. I've gambled when it's super cheap ($16) @ $2500 / 3 trade risk to bust eval + $2500 / 5 risk to bust live (about 40% success eval to payout threshold). I'm currently going with $2500 / 6 risk to bust eval + $2500 / 10 to bust live. I anticipate a 60-70% pass rate in eval + 100% live to payout threshold. Once >payout threshold I go with $2500 * .4 / 10 trade risk and withdraw 70% of profits >52600 & compound the 30% remaining.
I am new to future trading, today I heard futures trading is FIFO, how can you add or average up your position if you set RR 1.5:1 since 2nd position is not allowed to close/ stopped out until the first position is closed out first..
  • #31,702
  • Feb 24, 2024 11:09am Feb 24, 2024 11:09am
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}MetaQuotes don't want their product grey labelling, it's as simple as that. The licenced firms, FTMO etc must be loving it. Although I am told they're not necessarily safe, either. The question is how far props with the money to do so will open brokers up etc to obtain licences like Alpha Capital. {quote}Indeed, especially with the ratty people who run this Twitter feed people on here seem to hold in high regard (see attached picture). {image}
It’s probably time you reveal who you work for before making such comments
  • #31,703
  • Feb 24, 2024 11:11am Feb 24, 2024 11:11am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Perfect. Thank You. Once passed the payment threshold and DD is static, you just apply normal risk as you would with any other firm, correct? You are risking $100 per trade once DD is static? I like the pull 70% and compound, then the risk per trade can increase. OK, got it.
From 52600, do whatever you would do in a private account..... High R:R, let runners run, scale in.... whatever.
  • #31,704
  • Feb 24, 2024 11:36am Feb 24, 2024 11:36am
Quoting Boulder
{quote} I am new to future trading, today I heard futures trading is FIFO, how can you add or average up your position if you set RR 1.5:1 since 2nd position is not allowed to close/ stopped out until the first position is closed out first..
if you buy 1, you can buy another 1 in futures. if you close a position it just closes the 1st. If you buy 1 and sell 1... instead of holding both positions like in FX/CFD land, they offset and the 1 buy is closed. I never had issues with FIFO since I'm only in 1 trade at a time anyway.
  • #31,705
  • Feb 24, 2024 11:37am Feb 24, 2024 11:37am
Quoting Boulder
{quote} I am new to future trading, today I heard futures trading is FIFO, how can you add or average up your position if you set RR 1.5:1 since 2nd position is not allowed to close/ stopped out until the first position is closed out first..
You can’t take multiple contract positions in futures. Your position gets averaged in when you scale in and out.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #31,706
  • Feb 24, 2024 11:44am Feb 24, 2024 11:44am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} You can’t take multiple contract positions in futures. Your position gets averaged in when you scale in and out.
Of course, multiple accounts is a simple solution.
  • #31,707
  • Edited 12:17pm Feb 24, 2024 12:04pm | Edited 12:17pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Of course, multiple accounts is a simple solution.
I still have my letter to my futures broker from back in 2005. When I opened 2 accounts they wanted to know why and make sure I was not going to use them to hedge. I had 2 different trading systems that sometimes had overlap in trades in opposite directions in the same market. So I was able to manage it by putting long trades on account 1 and short trades in the same market on account 2.
  • #31,708
  • Edited 12:33pm Feb 24, 2024 12:10pm | Edited 12:33pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} You can’t take multiple contract positions in futures. Your position gets averaged in when you scale in and out.
I noticed that when I traded nq yesterday, since I placed all my trades in bracket in tradovate with fixed stop loss and target.. when I did average down, it closed my first bad trade at stop out, but when taking profit, it won't close my last trade, the end result worked in my favor since i had to hold all positions longer to close all at one time to be profitable trades. I guess in a way its good , you risk is fixed but your profit can be more than you are planning for

One thing I dont like tradovate, it doesn't allow me to do bracket with SL and TP in group when I copy trade between accounts
I only use tradovate for a day,, I don't know much. I dont know where to add stop loss and target price if I simply click buy and sell buttom.
So I have to ungroup my accounts, so I can set the bracket in individual account at least I have some control on my risk
  • #31,709
  • Feb 24, 2024 12:42pm Feb 24, 2024 12:42pm
Quoting Boulder
{quote} I noticed that when I traded nq yesterday, since I placed all my trades in bracket in tradovate with fixed stop loss and target.. when I did average down, it closed my first bad trade at stop out, but when taking profit, it won't close my last trade, the end result worked in my favor since i had to hold all positions longer to close all at one time to be profitable trades. I guess in a way its good , you risk is fixed but your profit can be more than you are planning for One thing I dont like tradovate, it doesn't allow me to do bracket...
Yeah brackets don't work when using the built in group trades on Tradovate. Only way to work around that is to place the SL and TP on the DOM, after the trade is open. Then it will execute across all accounts in that group.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #31,710
  • Feb 24, 2024 12:45pm Feb 24, 2024 12:45pm
Quoting CableJ
{quote} I still have my letter to my futures broker from back in 2005. When I opened 2 accounts they wanted to know why and make sure I was not going to use them to hedge. I had 2 different trading systems that sometimes had overlap in trades in opposite directions in the same market. So I was able to manage it by putting long trades on account 1 and short trades in the same market on account 2.
WTF ?! Why would they care about that ? If you had 2 long and 1 short it's much better in terms of commissions than having 2 running and closing 1 of them temporary.
  • #31,711
  • Feb 24, 2024 12:52pm Feb 24, 2024 12:52pm
Quoting TrAndy1
What to do if you can get your payouts only in crypto ? I never had any crypto so how does it work ? Where to open an account ? What else to do ?
If you are not familiar with crypto I suggest that you open an account in one of the known exchanges (Kraken, Coinbase or Binance).

Then in the exchange you will find your address for the coin in which you want to be paid (for example USDC, USDT, BTC, etc.).

You enter that address in the prop payout request and receive the crypto in this address.

Then in the exchange you can convert the crypto into fiat (euros, usd, etc.) and transfer to your bank account.

Later you can investigate how to have self custody addresses if that suits you but for now I would say this is the simplest and minimizes risk of errors.
  • #31,712
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:02pm Feb 24, 2024 1:02pm
Which account size do people feel offers best value for apex? I was thinking about 10 x 25k as the DD to PT is most favourable. But once you pass you need to pay life time fee of 1.5k. When a single 250k is only $320. I suppose you do not have as much DD with the single account. Need to find the sweetspot i guess. Should probably start with 1 x 25k to play around with really.
  • #31,713
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:09pm Feb 24, 2024 1:09pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} If you are not familiar with crypto I suggest that you open an account in one of the known exchanges (Kraken, .
I agree. First used crypto payout due to the deel fiasco. Opted for kraken, easy to use and quick transfers to your bank. Now my preferred payout method accept for direct bank transfer.
  • #31,714
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:11pm Feb 24, 2024 1:11pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} WTF ?! Why would they care about that ? If you had 2 long and 1 short it's much better in terms of commissions than having 2 running and closing 1 of them temporary.
more than likely it was to comply with US regulations.
  • #31,715
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:14pm Feb 24, 2024 1:14pm
Quoting rizla101
Which account size do people feel offers best value for apex? I was thinking about 10 x 25k as the DD to PT is most favourable. But once you pass you need to pay life time fee of 1.5k. When a single 250k is only $320. I suppose you do not have as much DD with the single account. Need to find the sweetspot i guess. Should probably start with 1 x 25k to play around with really.
I don't look at anything >50K.... the target vs DD increases the larger the account size.
  • #31,716
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:18pm Feb 24, 2024 1:18pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} If you are not familiar with crypto I suggest that you open an account in one of the known exchanges (Kraken, Coinbase or Binance). Then in the exchange you will find your address for the coin in which you want to be paid (for example USDC, USDT, BTC, etc.). You enter that address in the prop payout request and receive the crypto in this address. Then in the exchange you can convert the crypto into fiat (euros, usd, etc.) and transfer to your bank account. Later you can investigate how to have self custody addresses if that suits you but...
yes, kraken is super easy.
A snails pace wins the race :-)
  • #31,717
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:26pm Feb 24, 2024 1:26pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} WTF ?! Why would they care about that ?

So that they don’t break the law (and/or facilitate their clients breaking the law).

Futures are not like CFD’s - their world is not full of crooks and scammers.

There are some honest, transparent industries, too - strange though it may seem to some, here.
  • #31,718
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:32pm Feb 24, 2024 1:32pm
Quoting rizla101
Which account size do people feel offers best value for apex? I was thinking about 10 x 25k as the DD to PT is most favourable. But once you pass you need to pay life time fee of 1.5k. When a single 250k is only $320. I suppose you do not have as much DD with the single account. Need to find the sweetspot i guess. Should probably start with 1 x 25k to play around with really.
50K is the most popular as it will provide you with $2,500 DD, target only 3K. Once you go above, the target to DD ratio becomes pretty absurd.
  • #31,719
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:46pm Feb 24, 2024 1:46pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} 50K is the most popular as it will provide you with $2,500 DD, target only 3K. Once you go above, the target to DD ratio becomes pretty absurd.
Yes I think the 50k looks like it could be the best option. Lifetime fee only $10 more for additional 1k DD compared to the 25k.
  • #31,720
  • Feb 24, 2024 1:57pm Feb 24, 2024 1:57pm
Quoting rizla101
Which account size do people feel offers best value for apex? I was thinking about 10 x 25k as the DD to PT is most favourable. But once you pass you need to pay life time fee of 1.5k. When a single 250k is only $320. I suppose you do not have as much DD with the single account. Need to find the sweetspot i guess. Should probably start with 1 x 25k to play around with really.
This guy has an excellent analysis of each one from 4:30. It's a really nice table. Helped me to spot the differences between them. The right answer depend very much if we pass or not the challenge but I would say that 50K is the one that better balances every point.
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