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Are you willing to share your poor/ bad/ loser/ lousy system? 43 replies

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A Loser System Wanted

  • #41
  • Oct 30, 2006 4:35pm Oct 30, 2006 4:35pm
Here it is

http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...3&postcount=16
  • #42
  • Oct 30, 2006 5:03pm Oct 30, 2006 5:03pm
Quoting aparsai
Could you post the links. I'm not familiar with those websites.
collective2.com

tradency.fx-auto.com


on c2, you can look for "worst systems" under the title "Hot Lists" on the left.
  • #43
  • Oct 30, 2006 7:54pm Oct 30, 2006 7:54pm
Okay, here's an old-school analogy for this entire topic. Put a quarter in your hand and start flipping it. Take a legal pad and score yourself 2 points for every time it lands heads and minus 1 point every time it lands tails. Watch the coin flip point total grow exponentially over several hundred flips. Watch it draw down when you happen to get 10 tails in a row. I mean actually sit down and do this several hundred times. You will be amazed how it changes the way you look at one individual trade, and the way you look at money management...
"The time to act is when others show signs of tire." --W.D. Gann
  • #44
  • Oct 30, 2006 8:36pm Oct 30, 2006 8:36pm
Quoting smjones
Here it is

http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...3&postcount=16
Great! Thanks very much.
  • #45
  • Oct 30, 2006 8:36pm Oct 30, 2006 8:36pm
Quoting forexplayer
collective2.com

tradency.fx-auto.com


on c2, you can look for "worst systems" under the title "Hot Lists" on the left.
Thanks very much.
  • #46
  • Oct 30, 2006 8:38pm Oct 30, 2006 8:38pm
Quoting dukeofdents
Okay, here's an old-school analogy for this entire topic. Put a quarter in your hand and start flipping it. Take a legal pad and score yourself 2 points for every time it lands heads and minus 1 point every time it lands tails. Watch the coin flip point total grow exponentially over several hundred flips. Watch it draw down when you happen to get 10 tails in a row. I mean actually sit down and do this several hundred times. You will be amazed how it changes the way you look at one individual trade, and the way you look at money management...
That's an interesting experiment. Thanks for sharing it with us.
  • #47
  • Nov 26, 2006 1:26am Nov 26, 2006 1:26am
LOL...


There is no such thing as a losing system. A trade is only 2 types, win and loss! What made a trade sour is not the system but Trader's attitude!! A good signal can turned into a bad one when a trader didnt use proper MM and RM.

In trading, its not whether you are following a trend or not, but a big combination of SL and take profits. A signal can be correct, but a wrong SL will turn a good trade into a bad one is a good example. Greed or revenge is another thing.

So, there is no losing system only a losing Trader!! Go find a hopeless person in trading and do the opposite, Thats more like it!!

May the Pips be with you!!
Change Your Thinking. Change Your Life - JD
  • #48
  • Nov 26, 2006 9:03am Nov 26, 2006 9:03am
Quoting OrangeRoshan
LOL...


There is no such thing as a losing system. A trade is only 2 types, win and loss! What made a trade sour is not the system but Trader's attitude!! A good signal can turned into a bad one when a trader didnt use proper MM and RM.

In trading, its not whether you are following a trend or not, but a big combination of SL and take profits. A signal can be correct, but a wrong SL will turn a good trade into a bad one is a good example. Greed or revenge is another thing.

So, there is no losing system only a losing Trader!! Go find a hopeless person in trading and do the opposite, Thats more like it!!

May the Pips be with you!!
Hi OrangeRoshan,

Thanks very much for your feedback.
  • #49
  • Nov 26, 2006 9:13am Nov 26, 2006 9:13am
Quoting aparsai
Hi OrangeRoshan,

Thanks very much for your feedback.
You are certaily Pippingly welcome. Btw, I like your EA, Its pipastic!!
Change Your Thinking. Change Your Life - JD
  • #50
  • Nov 26, 2006 9:20am Nov 26, 2006 9:20am
Quoting OrangeRoshan
You are certaily Pippingly welcome. Btw, I like your EA, Its pipastic!!
Thanks very much and good to hear that. I wish you luck.
  • #51
  • Nov 26, 2006 9:26am Nov 26, 2006 9:26am
Quoting Samuri
A trading system with 20 pips limit and no stop, in the long term would turn to be a definite loser.
Challenge me.
So just use the same entry rules, put a 20 pip stop and no limit. Close trades manually when they hit 200 - 300 pips profit
  • #52
  • Nov 26, 2006 9:32am Nov 26, 2006 9:32am
Quoting OrangeRoshan
LOL...


There is no such thing as a losing system. A trade is only 2 types, win and loss! What made a trade sour is not the system but Trader's attitude!! A good signal can turned into a bad one when a trader didnt use proper MM and RM.

In trading, its not whether you are following a trend or not, but a big combination of SL and take profits. A signal can be correct, but a wrong SL will turn a good trade into a bad one is a good example. Greed or revenge is another thing.

So, there is no losing system only a losing Trader!! Go find a hopeless person in trading and do the opposite, Thats more like it!!

May the Pips be with you!!
I always love to read your comments. The Force is strong in you, I can feel it
  • #53
  • Nov 27, 2006 12:13pm Nov 27, 2006 12:13pm
What a bout a nice system neet a math genius and programer savvy to make it immaculate superb ?
  • #54
  • Nov 27, 2006 12:32pm Nov 27, 2006 12:32pm
Quoting dukeofdents
Okay, here's an old-school analogy for this entire topic. Put a quarter in your hand and start flipping it. Take a legal pad and score yourself 2 points for every time it lands heads and minus 1 point every time it lands tails. Watch the coin flip point total grow exponentially over several hundred flips. Watch it draw down when you happen to get 10 tails in a row. I mean actually sit down and do this several hundred times. You will be amazed how it changes the way you look at one individual trade, and the way you look at money management...
I've thought about this before and wondered how anyone can lose if its that simple. Just trade using 100 TP and 50 SL. Or 20 TP and 10 SL. The ratio is all that matters. This is assuming we always have a 50/50 shot of winning and losing. The only conclusion I've come up with for why this doesn't work is because we are not always 50/50. The answer to becomming successful is then in finding how to become 50/50 or more.

You example is correct, but is it applicable to real live trading? The market isn't as random as flipping a coin. Matt
  • #55
  • Nov 27, 2006 12:38pm Nov 27, 2006 12:38pm
  •  aghast
  • | Joined Jun 2006 | Status: Fixed Income & Currencies Trader | 58 Posts
Quoting aparsai
I am looking for a system that looses over 90% of the time. You might think I'm out of my mind. I might be but my intention is to create counter-direction trades based on that system and build a winner.

Such system should loose 90% of the time when you trade a fixed lot size (no MM envolved). It also has to be a very objective system. I mean it should use solid rules to trade.

If I manage to turn everything around, I'll write and EA based on the system and then post it to FF so everybody can enjoy it.


Happy Trading,
Al
everybody tries that in the beginning. you'll loose again in 90%+ of the trades.
Fortune always favors the brave.
  • #56
  • Nov 27, 2006 1:19pm Nov 27, 2006 1:19pm
Quoting aghast
everybody tries that in the beginning. you'll loose again in 90%+ of the trades.
And why is that?
  • #57
  • Nov 27, 2006 1:31pm Nov 27, 2006 1:31pm
Quoting permanentjaun
I've thought about this before and wondered how anyone can lose if its that simple. Just trade using 100 TP and 50 SL. Or 20 TP and 10 SL. The ratio is all that matters. This is assuming we always have a 50/50 shot of winning and losing. The only conclusion I've come up with for why this doesn't work is because we are not always 50/50. The answer to becomming successful is then in finding how to become 50/50 or more.

You example is correct, but is it applicable to real live trading? The market isn't as random as flipping a coin. Matt
Let me give you an example of how it works. Suppose you set the TP to 20 pips and SL to 10 pips and you pay a spread of 3 pips.

Now if the market moves in your favour it needs to move 23 pips to hit your target (TP+Spread) but when it moves against you it needs to move 10 pips only to hit the stoploss. Which one is easier for the market to achieve 23 pips or 10 pips? The odds that it hits the stop loss is much higher than hitting the TP.

Now let's turn everything around and set the SL to 20 pips and TP to 10 pips. With the same spread the market needs to move 13 pips to hit your TP and 20 pips to hit SL so the odds that your trade ends up with profit is higher. Of course in this situation everytime that you lose you lose bigger so you need to make sure that your system wins most of the times.

A combination of win rate and profit rate can generate money otherwise you are an absolute loser.
  • #58
  • Nov 27, 2006 8:36pm Nov 27, 2006 8:36pm
Quoting aparsai
Let me give you an example of how it works. Suppose you set the TP to 20 pips and SL to 10 pips and you pay a spread of 3 pips.

Now if the market moves in your favour it needs to move 23 pips to hit your target (TP+Spread) but when it moves against you it needs to move 10 pips only to hit the stoploss. Which one is easier for the market to achieve 23 pips or 10 pips? The odds that it hits the stop loss is much higher than hitting the TP.

Now let's turn everything around and set the SL to 20 pips and TP to 10 pips. With the same spread the market needs to move 13 pips to hit your TP and 20 pips to hit SL so the odds that your trade ends up with profit is higher. Of course in this situation everytime that you lose you lose bigger so you need to make sure that your system wins most of the times.

A combination of win rate and profit rate can generate money otherwise you are an absolute loser.
true, but for some reason even when your out to get those 10 pips the market just has its way in annoying you by hitting your SL then coming back with a reverse 50 pip move. lol :
Egyptian and proud of it!
  • #59
  • Nov 27, 2006 10:00pm Nov 27, 2006 10:00pm
Quoting g-dogg
true, but for some reason even when your out to get those 10 pips the market just has its way in annoying you by hitting your SL then coming back with a reverse 50 pip move. lol :
That's why you need to backtest and forward test your system and make sure it really works.
  • #60
  • Nov 27, 2006 10:19pm Nov 27, 2006 10:19pm
Quoting aparsai
Let me give you an example of how it works. Suppose you set the TP to 20 pips and SL to 10 pips and you pay a spread of 3 pips.

Now if the market moves in your favour it needs to move 23 pips to hit your target (TP+Spread) but when it moves against you it needs to move 10 pips only to hit the stoploss. Which one is easier for the market to achieve 23 pips or 10 pips? The odds that it hits the stop loss is much higher than hitting the TP.

Now let's turn everything around and set the SL to 20 pips and TP to 10 pips. With the same spread the market needs to move 13 pips to hit your TP and 20 pips to hit SL so the odds that your trade ends up with profit is higher. Of course in this situation everytime that you lose you lose bigger so you need to make sure that your system wins most of the times.

A combination of win rate and profit rate can generate money otherwise you are an absolute loser.
Wouldn't the price only have to move 7 pips to hit the stop loss in the first example? When you open the position, you would already be -3, so to hit -10 only requires a move of 7 pips, right? So, with a 20-pip TP and a 10-pip SL, the price would have to move 23 for profit and 7 for loss.
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