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  • #28,081
  • Jan 10, 2024 4:10pm Jan 10, 2024 4:10pm
Quoting Zuke
your sneering, high handed "I know best" posts actually detract from some of your more salient points on prop firms. Also, can you please stop with the alt-right stuff in this thread?
Quoting Zuke
Live and let live.
...
  • #28,082
  • Jan 10, 2024 4:17pm Jan 10, 2024 4:17pm
Would like to some views on E8 & The 5ers. Which at time would be a better choice? Not seeing many postings at this time in regard to these two.

All views welcome.
  • #28,083
  • Jan 10, 2024 4:54pm Jan 10, 2024 4:54pm
Quoting acetrader
Would like to some views on E8 & The 5ers. Which at time would be a better choice? Not seeing many postings at this time in regard to these two. All views welcome.
I had given up on them a while back as they had poor conditions for trading Indicies. Apparently they have improved and mirror FTMO (leverage, zero commissions) What still bugs me about E8 is the closed loop chat on Telegram. That and it still seems to be a 1 man operation.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #28,084
  • Jan 10, 2024 5:02pm Jan 10, 2024 5:02pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} I had given up on them a while back as they had poor conditions for trading Indicies. Apparently they have improved and mirror FTMO (leverage, zero commissions) What still bugs me about E8 is the closed loop chat on Telegram. That and it still seems to be a 1 man operation.
Hi Cryptosurf,

That is the one thing that is concerning to me as well. What are your thoughts on the 5ers/? Thank you.
  • #28,085
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:24pm Jan 10, 2024 6:24pm
Quoting acetrader
{quote} Hi Cryptosurf, That is the one thing that is concerning to me as well. What are your thoughts on the 5ers/? Thank you.
Haven't considered them tbh. Im just going to hump me FTMO and APEX accounts and trade my own Futures. Eventually will dump the props.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #28,086
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:40pm Jan 10, 2024 6:40pm
Quoting CableJ
MFF Lied about trading live markets... yet their best traders (VIP) received multiple payouts in their fictitious trading environment. Once those same traders were A booked and sent to the real market, they turned into net losers almost every month. If MFF put everyone in an A book environment from day 1 (eval + live) what do you think the overall outcome would have been for traders? Even less success!!! MFF's virtual/simulated trading environment was better for traders than the real live markets filling the inflated ticket volumes of prop accounts....
The sample size (under 100) of who went to the live market is so low it's hard to draw any conclusions. It's quoted 70% of the <100 who went to live did worse.

Secondly, what was the selection methodology? Was it a sample of people who had managed to simply take lots of money from MFF whose luck was always going to run out the longer they traded, for example? If you take 100 people who've all made 100% return in 2 weeks, then it's more probable the following two weeks they'll do less well, even on the same conditions.

MMF also inflated the spread on the live market to make it harder to succeed. No idea why they'd make it harder for the trader using real capital to trade, but there we go.

On the other hand, it may have been that the simulated conditions were better for traders. That they apparently couldn't manage cheaters / abusers and had to make further groups making conditions worse corroborate that opinion.

Regardless, the lies about the live markets masked the total conflict of interest MFF had. MFF only succeeded if people failed and the more people failed, the more they succeeded. They presented the opposite picture.

Weird how people want to give them a pass for their conduct.
  • #28,087
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:47pm Jan 10, 2024 6:47pm
Quoting PropDude1234
Weird how people want to give them a pass for their conduct.
ZZZzzzz
  • #28,088
  • Jan 10, 2024 6:59pm Jan 10, 2024 6:59pm
At least their proposed disclosures will be clear if they're ever able to go back in business:
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  • #28,089
  • Jan 10, 2024 7:16pm Jan 10, 2024 7:16pm
Quoting PropDude1234
At least their proposed disclosures will be clear if they're ever able to go back in business: {image}
Not one single trader that knows how to make money, and has been paid in the past by MFF, will give a rat’s ass if they’re trading simulated conditions in the future if MFF prevails.

It’s all simulated, man.
A snails pace wins the race :-)
  • #28,090
  • Jan 10, 2024 7:26pm Jan 10, 2024 7:26pm
Quoting JustPipMe
{quote} Not one single trader that knows how to make money, and has been paid in the past by MFF, will give a rat’s ass if they’re trading simulated conditions in the future if MFF prevails. It’s all simulated, man.
Not now it's industry standard and FTMO led the pack with it.

Shame they didn't blaze that trail when they had the chance. May have resulted in fewer frozen houses.
  • #28,091
  • Jan 10, 2024 7:35pm Jan 10, 2024 7:35pm
I think the points this guy made are quite reasonable, especially the 2nd point, if there are some types of exclusive right that enable prob firms to operate in the US under some specific conditions that are also approved by CFTC, does anyone think it will be possible?
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  • #28,092
  • Jan 10, 2024 8:14pm Jan 10, 2024 8:14pm
Quoting longcanlun12
I think the points this guy made are quite reasonable, especially the 2nd point, if there are some types of exclusive right that enable prob firms to operate in the US under some specific conditions that are also approved by CFTC, does anyone think it will be possible? {image}
The CFTC doesn't even want spot forex in the USA, they certainly do not want simulated spot forex. That is truly all this is. Just look at the history of forex and forex brokers in the US. The "whistleblower" simply accelerated the process.
  • #28,093
  • Jan 10, 2024 8:30pm Jan 10, 2024 8:30pm
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}MFF only succeeded if people failed and the more people failed, the more they succeeded. They presented the opposite picture. Weird how people want to give them a pass for their conduct.
So if 100% people fail, MFF will be 100% successful. If no one can make money at MFF, then MFF will make tons of money.
What's your education level?
  • #28,094
  • Jan 11, 2024 12:16am Jan 11, 2024 12:16am
So if I go to play blackjack at a casino and my buddy and I each wager a $5 chip and he wins and I lose I will have to call the Pit Boss over and demand that he/she/they/it/ze/zer puts a sign up saying that all winning bets are paid from other player's losing bets.

Having that information in advance will guarantee that I'll be a winning player because I'm too stupid to figure it out on my own. Can you believe the nerve of these casinos trying to trick me like that?
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #28,095
  • Jan 11, 2024 12:47am Jan 11, 2024 12:47am
Quoting Expo33
So if I go to play blackjack at a casino and my buddy and I each wager a $5 chip and he wins and I lose I will have to call the Pit Boss over and demand that he/she/they/it/ze/zer puts a sign up saying that all winning bets are paid from other player's losing bets. Having that information in advance will guarantee that I'll be a winning player because I'm too stupid to figure it out on my own. Can you believe the nerve of these casinos trying to trick me like that?
High expo, the word casino is in any dictionary with a clear meaning and society understands what a casino is and how it makes money - odds stacked in its favour.
The word prop trader is less understood, most likely not in a dictionary, but proprietary trader is which states those traders use capital to make money but no mention of simulations. Perhaps people assumed the funds were real due to terminology.

Perhaps a new word like online trading casino would be appropriate for less confusion. But didn't poker get shut down?
  • #28,096
  • Jan 11, 2024 1:27am Jan 11, 2024 1:27am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}- Companies shouldn't lie. But most people just do not care about the argument that you keep beating into the ground because they understand the opportunity and know that the payouts are real and that is what actually matters.
I hope in 2024 the payouts continue for traders. If MFF comes back I'll give them a go.
  • #28,097
  • Jan 11, 2024 1:57am Jan 11, 2024 1:57am
As this is a US caused problem with MFF, perhaps a US guy with knowledge of the gambling laws over there can answer, why can't MFF set this up as a 100% simulated game and report to the gaming commission and have nothing to do with CFTC? Too simple a solution?

I suppose the only thing is, the long term winners would get banned just like card counters do?
  • #28,098
  • Jan 11, 2024 4:26am Jan 11, 2024 4:26am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Haven't considered them tbh. Im just going to hump me FTMO and APEX accounts and trade my own Futures. Eventually will dump the props.
In the end that is what I am considering. Being done with forex. Futures offer far less hassles & seems to be government sanctioned.
  • #28,099
  • Jan 11, 2024 5:24am Jan 11, 2024 5:24am
Quoting Zuke
your sneering, high handed "I know best" posts actually detract from some of your more salient points on prop firms.

Exactly right.

I used to have plenty of respect for his posts here; now they just make me wince (not that he’ll care about that!).
  • #28,100
  • Jan 11, 2024 5:52am Jan 11, 2024 5:52am
Quoting CableJ
MFF Lied about trading live markets... yet their best traders (VIP) received multiple payouts in their fictitious trading environment. Once those same traders were A booked and sent to the real market, they turned into net losers almost every month. If MFF put everyone in an A book environment from day 1 (eval + live) what do you think the overall outcome would have been for traders? Even less success!!! MFF's virtual/simulated trading environment was better for traders than the real live markets filling the inflated ticket volumes of prop accounts....
Sounds about right, I'm back with Darwinex (just trading my cash account) and they show a neat capacity measurement. On this account I swing intra and don't "scalp" so the orders are sometimes in for hours, they reckon it's about 0.7% difference on return per approx. 1 pip variance for the order (using stop orders as well). Their problem to sort not mine So if you are a scalper and/or trade stuff with biggerspreads you are basically junk.
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