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  • #26,841
  • Dec 1, 2023 9:18am Dec 1, 2023 9:18am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} true ,i was speaking about the 1k to 10 k many times done part , how many accounts bust for one time working. in general is the rule: the better the trader is (and the higher the edge) , a one time bet in place is extrem more win with less drawdown against any many time bets over martingale, grid or whatever, the difference is extrem. when the trader is not very good or cant analyze his trades good or has no stable edge, then only placing many trades can give an advantage by luck. you can easy find this out in analyzing ,but only works for...
I dont agree with this totally tbh, since Ive tested both martingale and other one time directional order systems. When those two are combined I noticed its safer than even one time directional order. It depends on the market sure too. Like for example in 2021 there was a month where all it did was range in total chaos way and martingale was without the most profitable even if using it as you say random without any other method mixed.

But when you mix martingale with the other methods candle price action S&R etc analysis ive noticed is the most secure overall. Theres many ways to trade martingale I noticed. When I started to trade martingale it was more random luck based than now for sure. But its a added security layer if you are uncertain about what the market will do for sure. Then once market is established you can just keep adding positions even if you use martingale as if its a one directional trading. So again many methods to use it. If just using martingale random based without structure yea then it becomes very dangerous. I advise against that for sure.

Actually, it also depends on the instrument. I would for sure not try using martingale on GBPUSD for example. As I did alot tests on it with it and it totally failed with GBPUSD at least as a newbie compared to indices mixed with other methods even due to how GBPUSD is random unlike US indices. Thats what I noticed myself. So I mean maybe someone else found a way then great.
  • #26,842
  • Dec 1, 2023 9:20am Dec 1, 2023 9:20am
Quoting Artcool
For the P2Ps, where do they send you the fiat currencies?
It depends on what purpose I am making the trade for. I usually have EUR or USD transferred to my account via SEPA, sometimes I payout to PayPal, sometimes to a credit card. Since it is a P2P you have to pay attention to the fees, which are usually higher. You don't have to go through KYC for this
  • #26,843
  • Edited 9:43am Dec 1, 2023 9:30am | Edited 9:43am
Quoting labu
{quote} I dont agree with this totally tbh, since Ive tested both martingale and other one time directional order systems. When those two are combined I noticed its safer than even one time directional order. It depends on the market sure too. Like for example in 2021 there was a month where all it did was range in total chaos way and martingale was without the most profitable even if using it as you say random without any other method mixed. But when you mix martingale with the other methods candle price action S&R etc analysis ive noticed is the...
wait to be clear from the definition:
- with martingale you speak about averaging down until account busting without SL, correct? so always strategies without an edge inside over very longterm (can bust any day, today or in 10 years)?? so winning until account busts on end.
- its impossible that grid has a better possibility, more win and less drawdown, in all my tests since 20 years never happen once when do correct analyzing (i have never seen good traders use grid , sometimes only when they cant have emotions for trade many millions in one and split it, but they know its wrong but need to do because of emotions) - but only works with fixed trading plan and strategy, but in other cases any trading journal or analyze is useless anyway

its a math Illusion that you think martingale is more save, because you simple push the sure total loss in maybe lets say one day in the next 5 years (you have to construct a frame when it will happen always, most dont know), so with a high probability its not today.... but can be. and so no big money cant go in and so wins always are less good. or if you like to use more luck inside trading then martingale is ok, but no real edge inside, its a luck play and you have to accept the risk.

anyone one his way to a trader is using martingale some day because looks so promising until they calculate all exactly or get the hard way the experience. when you dont have a real edge system maybe martingale is good that you see at least some trades. martingale is what broker like most, from nothing you earn more money as broker.

martingale and hedging (inside one pair) are 2 of the concepts to understand and overcome on the way from a gambler to a trader , when the results should start to go increase big and the mind gets realizing the real trading world.
  • #26,844
  • Dec 1, 2023 9:34am Dec 1, 2023 9:34am
Quoting Capablanca
For the P2P or dex there is also risk.

Yes, there is always a risk in life. I just like to have full control over my own assets as far as it goes. If the authorities or the bank itself freeze your account, you are screwed unless your bank is in a country where no one is interested in this. Since I'm not doing anything illegal, I'm not particularly worried, but of course there is always a risk. For large transfers, I don't know whether I would use P2P. Let's say you want to withdraw 5-10 million in crypto to your bank account quickly and easily and without high fees. What are you doing to avoid having any problems?
  • #26,845
  • Dec 1, 2023 9:43am Dec 1, 2023 9:43am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} wait to be clear from the definition: - with martingale you speak about averaging down until account busting without SL, correct? so always strategies without an edge inside over very longterm (can bust any day, today or in 10 years)?? - its impossible that grid has a better possibility, more win and less drawdown, in all my tests since 20 years never happen once when do correct analyzing (i have never seen good traders use grid , sometimes only when they cant have emotions for trade many millions in one and split it, but they know its wrong...
Using a SL and daytrading based not longterm. So one kinda got control of it with the timeframes im using at least and instruments. Since its possible to get in and out closing the orders without it goes too far out of control. I did test grid too, not that much but it had worse results felt more static weird. I agree tho fixed trading plan and strategy is essential 100%.
I actually tested without martingale for a long time since martingale only just was too risky on its own I noticed unless the market went into total ranging. But when it was mixed with one directional trading for me personally felt safer. Even if one directional trading is possible mentally for me maybe I just enjoy martingale too much too.
But from tests I did still good results. Even if tbh the profit might be lower but more secure. Newbie level I guess. But the mental part emotional for me I realized is vital to not overstep certain limits. We all got our thresholds I guess.

Even if one directional trading can be better in some market conditions than mixing it with martingale. Its also about how lazy one is I guess. I try to find a way and use which fits all situations which been taken some years now to get and with martingale included somehow as mentioned before gives that extra protection. But not without a very specific strategy. One must analyze market of course best one can before doing so.

So to add martingale of course shouldnt be used with longterm trading. That seems very obvious to me since then you have 0% control of the situation compared to when the markets move very quickly as in daytrading on small timeframes. Thats my impression of it and from tests.
  • #26,846
  • Dec 1, 2023 9:47am Dec 1, 2023 9:47am
Quoting labu
{quote} Using a SL and daytrading based not longterm. So one kinda got control of it with the timeframes im using at least and instruments. Since its possible to get in and out closing the orders without it goes too far out of control. I did test grid too, not that much but it had worse results felt more static weird. I agree tho fixed trading plan and strategy is essential 100%. I actually tested without martingale for a long time since it just was too risky on its own I noticed unless the market went into total ranging. But when it was mixed with...
ok , anyone defines the names different. grid for me is is exactly definition what you call martingale: many entries against one entry and with a SL. still always in longterm less win and higher drawdowns against one time bet on right calculated place (but less emotions for many, this can produce more wins too by doing less mistakes), but much better then martingale for sure.

you can try to learn about advanced analyze techniques , looks like you are ready for this from your knowledge about trading. this changes anything and is often the missing part.
  • #26,847
  • Dec 1, 2023 9:54am Dec 1, 2023 9:54am
Quoting Trader191
martingale and hedging (inside one pair) are 2 of the concepts to understand and overcome on the way from a gambler to a trader , when the results should start to go increase big and the mind gets realizing the real trading world.
I did daytrading and test for years now so thats my only experience. Not longterm to make it clear. In daytrading theres no way martingale is gambling as im anti gambling myself. Never even liked poker but I can see the results. If you havent tested martingale systems and similar mixed with other methods in daytrading for example then ok. But its not a gamble thats for sure when you have system 100% when to go in and out and if it even becomes profitable per monthly basis. But even then trading one directional as Ive tested is more of a gamble since if the market in daytrading goes into ranging for weeks or months then its game over compared to if using martingale with a structure.

So even if you have 20 years experience I respect that. But if you did also for example daytrading using range , ticks with NQ 1min trading and if you noticed martingale was still gamble even after years of testing it. Then Im willing to listen to how you managed to make martingale into a gambling. SInce without a doubt the prop firms ban martingale and grid system in daytrading for this reason. How its the least gambling based method I tested and which is profitable even. Year after year. If being very careful with it and knowing when to get out again in very small time frames.
  • #26,848
  • Dec 1, 2023 9:58am Dec 1, 2023 9:58am
Quoting labu
{quote} I did daytrading for years now so thats my only experience. Not longterm to make it clear. In daytrading theres no way martingale is gambling as im anti gambling myself. Never even liked poker but I can see the results. If you havent tested martingale systems and similar mixed with other methods in daytrading for example then ok. But its not a gamble thats for sure when you have system 100% when to go in and out and if it even becomes profitable per monthly basis. But even then trading one directional as Ive tested is more of a gamble since...
i tested and calculated all, never one system ever was only near a one time bet, no grid has any chance to get better - even by math not possible.
i do only daytrade, so do same like you. but in currencies most of time.

you do grid trading and not martingale, big difference. so you just waste some wins and accept higher drawdowns, not have a losing no edge situation.
  • #26,849
  • Dec 1, 2023 10:02am Dec 1, 2023 10:02am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} ok , anyone defines the names different. grid for me is is exactly definition what you call martingale: many entries against one entry and with a SL. still always in longterm less win and higher drawdowns against one time bet on right calculated place (but less emotions for many, this can produce more wins too by doing less mistakes), but much better then martingale for sure. you can try to learn about advanced analyze techniques , looks like you are ready for this from your knowledge about trading. this changes anything and is often the...
Thanks for the tips. Theres always stuff to learn for sure. But what ive noticed in reality its about knowing and to extract as much profit as possible and staying secure as possible too so emotionally u can stay cool. Some kinda balance there. Ive read and watched most things actually. Not sure what you mean by advanced anayze techniques. You mean flag patterns, W patterns I guess. yea I did alot of tests with that too just pure charting. Even then it all comes back to the basics in end to being the most profitable. So to me again which is the most profitable method, to me flag patterns, W patterns, penancle pattern such isnt as reliable as I want them to be. Maybe they work better in other instruments than the ones I use.

Martingale strategies rely on the theory of mean reversion. Thats what I figure martingale means so I use that term. But grid is static intervals in pips or etc thus why its called grid. I dont use static like grid. Maybe better term would be non random martingale grid mix.
  • #26,850
  • Dec 1, 2023 10:07am Dec 1, 2023 10:07am
Quoting labu
{quote} Thanks for the tips. Theres always stuff to learn for sure. But what ive noticed in reality its about knowing and to extract as much profit as possible and staying secure as possible too so emotionally u can stay cool. Some kinda balance there. Ive read and watched most things actually. Not sure what you mean by advanced anayze techniques. You mean flag patterns, W patterns I guess. yea I did alot of tests with that too just pure charting. Even then it all comes back to the basics in end to being the most profitable. So to me again which...
no, analyze your trades as grid and calculate against doing as one time bet! should always be one time bet best with big difference.
if i would analyze your trades i would just say you how to place your trading to one time bet with much lower drawdown, much less trades and much higher win. grud systems you can always improve like crazy. but only when there is fixed rules and trading plan on a trading strategy. without of course dont work, trades need to be placed as same rules or they are unconnected and all math is worthless, even whole trading journal is worthless - useless data then.
  • #26,851
  • Dec 1, 2023 10:11am Dec 1, 2023 10:11am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} i tested and calculated all, never one system ever was only near a one time bet, no grid has any chance to get better - even by math not possible. i do only daytrade, so do same like you. but in currencies most of time. you do grid trading and not martingale, big difference. so you just waste some wins and accept higher drawdowns, not have a losing no edge situation.
All right I respect that yea in one of the methods I use which I mentioned today which involves time frames. The one I personally prefer uses a noise reduction system not based on timeframes and precharting analysis of how the current market is behaving. Then in that method "martingale + grid" system isnt needed to be as secure I noticed.
  • #26,852
  • Dec 1, 2023 10:15am Dec 1, 2023 10:15am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} no, analyze your trades as grid and calculate against doing as one time bet! should always be one time bet best with big difference. if i would analyze your trades i would just say you how to place your trading to one time bet with much lower drawdown, much less trades and much higher win. grud systems you can always improve like crazy. but only when there is fixed rules and trading plan on a trading strategy. without of course dont work, trades need to be placed as same rules or they are unconnected and all math is worthless, even whole...
I agree tho. Thats why i practise on timeframes atm again for fun too to improve. But not as profitable compared to ticks and range charts in instruments I use. I always use netting method btw. So one always knows the median average ofc. Well thanks for your inputs tho. Respect for those who did it for many years and especially currencies. To just use it as one time bet instead or try with timeframes is tricky tbh. But one could try to as you mentioned vision the grid+martingale as one bet instead. All right will let the thread be about prop firms again.
  • #26,853
  • Dec 1, 2023 10:20am Dec 1, 2023 10:20am
Quoting lddd
{quote} Yes, there is always a risk in life. I just like to have full control over my own assets as far as it goes. If the authorities or the bank itself freeze your account, you are screwed unless your bank is in a country where no one is interested in this. Since I'm not doing anything illegal, I'm not particularly worried, but of course there is always a risk. For large transfers, I don't know whether I would use P2P. Let's say you want to withdraw 5-10 million in crypto to your bank account quickly and easily and without high fees. What are...
I just pointed out the risks from one alternative and another and justified why I prefer to exchange crypto->fiat in exchanges like Kraken (and immediately withdraw that). For keeping my crytpos I never use exchanges. I always use self custody.

I'm not saying my choice is superior and not a problem in disagreeing. It's a bit offtopic but, as crypto is a withdrawing method in most props, maybe it's useful that people are informed of the different options and risks and make a bit more of educated decision.
  • #26,854
  • Dec 1, 2023 10:36am Dec 1, 2023 10:36am
Quoting krscott
{quote} I can see you are very experienced trader. I'm 2yrs trading now, not consistently profitable. I'm currently break even trader, just cant seem to get over the hump.
I was like in the same boat for few years as well.. The GOTCHA moment for me is to identify my personality and stick with it no matter how good the setup is and how much more i can make of it. My current PA win ratio is close to 75-80% when i do scalping i.e min 5 pips and not more than 20 pips target but when i try day trading and swing it reduces to close to 45%. So i need to identified what works for me and stick to it. And lastly keep it simple as i mentioned its a PROBABILITY GAME i lose some trades in a row but in long run profitable.
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #26,855
  • Dec 1, 2023 10:48am Dec 1, 2023 10:48am
Quoting labu
{quote} I must say your method is quite fascinating since it seems to me some other people here use similar methods kinda like Navk. When Ive done tests mainly on indices tho. Such methods would normally be very difficult with indices and I assume why some here avoid futures prop firms. Due to the volatility factor. But I can imagine on more directional instruments as I call it where the banks flush cash and then just ride the wave like GBP/USD and so on. I can imagine if one is good at detecting when that happens that method might work same as...
if someone hits 10 x 1k losses in a row that means they don't have an EDGE and USING NONSENSE RISKS. IF someone goes beyond 5% on micro accounts per trade is setting themselves for FAILURE. What i learnt for my mental psyche while trading is i perform better when i play with profits even taking high risks but if i had to take risks from the beginning then my Emotions always set me up for a failure. So my risk management is to create a buffer first using low risk and then go all in with the profits keeping the deposit safe.
Also its not advisable but it works for me
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #26,856
  • Dec 1, 2023 10:54am Dec 1, 2023 10:54am
Day 2 didn't go as planned....

1. Myflasfunding back at breakeven first 1.5% UP then went into drawdown and came back.
2. BlueGuardian lost 3.5% in profits.
3. Skilled - passed phase 1.

Literally gold volatility ate my profits.
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #26,857
  • Dec 1, 2023 10:58am Dec 1, 2023 10:58am
Quoting montygoldy
Day 2 didn't go as planned.... 1. Myflasfunding back at breakeven first 1.5% UP then went into drawdown and came back. 2. BlueGuardian lost 3.5% in profits. 3. Skilled - passed phase 1. Literally gold volatility ate my profits. {image} {image} {image} {image}
The news volatility is not good for scalping, talking about me. I mean the markets have been not so good before the news, awaiting them and then right after a lot of jumps which was untradeable for me and I got too many bad trades. So I learnt to stick away from any red news, especially when scalping indices. But that is only me.
  • #26,858
  • Dec 1, 2023 11:14am Dec 1, 2023 11:14am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} The news volatility is not good for scalping, talking about me. I mean the markets have been not so good before the news, awaiting them and then right after a lot of jumps which was untradeable for me and I got too many bad trades. So I learnt to stick away from any red news, especially when scalping indices. But that is only me.
news doesn't matter But I forgot today is FRYDAY my personal worst performing day, had all of my biggest losses on this mf day.
currently scalping after news
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #26,859
  • Dec 1, 2023 2:27pm Dec 1, 2023 2:27pm
Quoting montygoldy
Day 2 didn't go as planned.... 1. Myflasfunding back at breakeven first 1.5% UP then went into drawdown and came back. 2. BlueGuardian lost 3.5% in profits. 3. Skilled - passed phase 1. Literally gold volatility ate my profits. {image} {image} {image} {image}
Passed phase 1 of Myflashfunding in 3 hours capturing a nice setup without over risking
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #26,860
  • Dec 1, 2023 6:01pm Dec 1, 2023 6:01pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} Passed phase 1 of Myflashfunding in 3 hours capturing a nice setup without over risking {image} {image}
Thanks for sharing and providing input on the firms you are using. Very helpful information, much appreciated.
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