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  • #26,661
  • Nov 27, 2023 11:37am Nov 27, 2023 11:37am
Good support from APEX. Bit slowly, but there is fine solution now.
  • #26,662
  • Nov 27, 2023 12:22pm Nov 27, 2023 12:22pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes, but this all leads back to this idea that props are wanting their cake and eating it too. Many props are being selective with their rules/enforcement, and only applying them when it benefits them to do so, in lieu of applying the same rules to everyone, all of the time. We understand how the model works, so we understand why they do this, but it's really not the right approach, in my opinion, since it encourages shady and dishonest practices and does not foster a positive, transparent and honest working relationship. As mentioned, if...
The Trading Pit does that. You can only have one account with them. They have a max profit per level up to the maximum level but their rules are very difficult since you need to make 10% for each level, they give you your cash, increase your account and reset it from crash. They can control their maximum costs until some point. But then, if a trader who is successful with them can always trade on behalf of some friend or even his beautiful model wife from their same IP address and then claim it was his wife who was trading between her manucure and her pedicure.

Regarding FTMO, I guess that trader made some good money before being asked to reduce his trade sizes and a trader is legally their independant contractor, not their client.

That sais, I agree that all these issues cold have been avoided if prop firms were honest about their business model, just like casinos are or maybe even binary options firms before they got shutdown. Maybe if they were, they would have needed a gambling license (like online casinos) which requires a ton of money and they would have faced a lot more stigma from their banks and of course from their customers. We see ourselves like traders, not gamblers, right?
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #26,663
  • Nov 27, 2023 12:40pm Nov 27, 2023 12:40pm
Quoting Artcool
{quote} The Trading Pit does that. You can only have one account with them. They have a max profit per level up to the maximum level but their rules are very difficult since you need to make 10% for each level, they give you your cash, increase your account and reset it from crash. They can control their maximum costs until some point. But then, if a trader who is successful with them can always trade on behalf of some friend or even his beautiful model wife from their same IP address and then claim it was his wife who was trading between her manucure...
Ah.....the gambling vs. trading argument. In it's simplest terms, gambling is simply a game of chance with a random outcome......roulette wheel, slot machines, craps, lotteries, blackjack. Now, one can obtain an edge counting cards in blackjack as then you are dealing with probabilities. This is why a casino will ban you for counting. Roulette, not so much, even if 7 comes out 10 times in a row, odds are still 1/38(with 0 and 00) 7 will come again.
I am an avid poker player, game of skill, I have an edge over my opponents, just like chess, backgammon, etc. When I sit down at a poker table, I do not consider myself gambling. I expect to win. Not every hand, but over an ample sample size, I will prevail over my opponents.
Trading to me is like poker, I expect to win. Not every trade, but over an ample sample size, I will prevail over the markets.
Poker and trading alike, due to your edge only working on a larger sample size, require a bankroll which will allow x amount of losses in order for the edge to prevail.
All of the above pretext brings me to my point....The props want gamblers taking the eval and traders trading the funded accounts.
  • #26,664
  • Nov 27, 2023 12:49pm Nov 27, 2023 12:49pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} My first year, I had cautious optimism that trades were being copied. Greatest thing ever, 20 x my investment as max loss, fee refunded, conditions and instruments not available to me in the US. Then the optimism faded, however, everything else still rings true.....20 x my investment, fee refunded, conditions and instruments not available to me in the US. It simply needs to be advertsied as to what it really is.......question is will there be enough demand to survive?
Absolutely. Months ago I messaged Boulder about all this prop firm stuff as I know her from the Swamp thread.

Now that I’m funded, this is my favorite thread.

But the lingering question on here should be about the “continued or increased demand” for prop firms by us retail traders around the world.

if there’s a ton of demand, prop firms are full of cash. Then us traders getting paid won’t be an issue

edit - also, the less prop firms, the better, obviously. Wish it were just 5ers, MFF, FTMO, and maybe TFF and CTI as the 2 outliers.

all the rest are diluting the demand for the real McCoy firms
A snails pace wins the race :-)
  • #26,665
  • Nov 27, 2023 12:56pm Nov 27, 2023 12:56pm
Quoting JustPipMe
{quote} Absolutely. Months ago I messaged Boulder about all this prop firm stuff as I know her from the Swamp thread. Now that I’m funded, this is my favorite thread. But the lingering question on here should be about the “continued or increased demand” for prop firms by us retail traders around the world. if there’s a ton of demand, prop firms are full of cash. Then us traders getting paid won’t be an issue edit - also, the less prop firms, the better, obviously. Wish it were just 5ers, MFF, FTMO, and maybe TFF and CTI...
Yes and I posted the same over and over about 12-18 months ago. I warned everyone DO NOT USE these new firms.....business in a box, under capitalized 20 something year olds who have no clue how to run a business. My opinion was if nobody gives them business, of course, they would cease to exist.
But everyone needed that extra 5 days, that 1% lower target, that $20 cheaper price and here we are........
  • #26,666
  • Nov 27, 2023 1:30pm Nov 27, 2023 1:30pm
Anyone has the Ninjatrader copy tool ? How does it looks like, any screenshots you can provide ? Is it handsome ? Apex one is outdated right, so which one you bought?
  • #26,667
  • Edited 2:06pm Nov 27, 2023 1:38pm | Edited 2:06pm
Quoting Artcool
Regarding FTMO, I guess that trader made some good money before being asked to reduce his trade sizes and a trader is legally their independant contractor, not their client.
-The title of independent contractor is only applicable if we are providing a service (e.g. our trading data is actually being utilized to generate capital), which is not the case, most of the time. But I think that regardless of whether or not we are deemed customers or contractors etc., that the rules should be clear and static, not selectively-applied and no unwritten, ambiguous interpretations etc..

Currently, these firms are creating rules in the same way that corporations use their lobbyists to persuade lawmakers to write loop-holes into legislation that serve to only protect and benefit them, making them untouchable in some cases. The rules that are being created and implemented with various prop firms are tipping the scales so heavily in their favor, that they are becoming criminal in nature and impossible to refute. These are the types of terms that render contracts legally unenforceable; unconscionable.

Using gambling as an example, it would be little different from a casino rigging their games and then making their own rules that allow them to get away with cheating so that the customer has no recourse. Either you accept that fact, or, you go to a different casino. But good luck finding a casino that isn't using the same tactics. This is how nonsensical things have become. They are making their own rules and it seems that there is no limit to how ridiculous they will go with it.

To be clear, I am not advocating for regulation as the solution to this problem. I think, we can figure this out without the need for that false sense of security. I really believe that the answer involves revisiting the model, and getting all firms to collectively agree to an overhaul that is both, fair and practical.

Quoting Artcool
That sais, I agree that all these issues cold have been avoided if prop firms were honest about their business model
-Honesty is important, but I think that the current model does not allow for the kind of honesty that is needed. That is the bigger problem. The current model requires that firms either behave dishonestly, or, eventually go out of business. This is why the model needs to be revisited. It is simply not sustainable, as-is. And maybe there is no perfect model. But maybe perfection is not necessary. Maybe, just having something that is more balanced and sustainable is enough.

When these props first started popping up, we all knew that they were extreme; having to flip an account in 20 to 30 days etc.. But we agreed to this trade-off because we knew that we could get funded very quickly, without the need for licensing and traveling etc.. But now we see that this model is too extreme, and is too difficult to sustain in a healthy way. So, maybe finding some middle ground between traditional prop and extreme prop is the way to go.
  • #26,668
  • Nov 27, 2023 3:17pm Nov 27, 2023 3:17pm
What is the best deal for Replikanto copier tool ? I found only 20%. I heard at least 40% discount is available (from time to time). Anyone has or knows the code ?
  • #26,669
  • Edited 9:58pm Nov 27, 2023 3:39pm | Edited 9:58pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-The title of independent contractor is only applicable if we are providing a service (e.g. our trading data is actually being utilized to generate capital), which is not the case, most of the time. But I think that regardless of whether or not we are deemed customers or contractors etc., that the rules should be clear and static, not selectively-applied and no unwritten, ambiguous interpretations etc.. Currently, these firms are creating rules in the same way that corporations use their lobbyists to persuade lawmakers to write loop-holes...
As much as I trust and respect FTMO as one of the premier firms in the industry, they flat-out lied to me from the very start. And I knew they were lying but it didn't matter because I felt I could trust them if I ever got to the payout stage.

In 2016, a year after FTMO opened their business I heard about them and wanted to buy a challenge. I was a little hesitant as the industry didn't have much of a track record. Everything was so much more personal than now. I would get emails from their founders (supposedly) with their phone numbers in case I had any questions. So before purchasing a challenge I called and talked to one of their founders. I asked him how they get the funds to pay their clients? And what if the majority of their funded clients lose money?

He told me that the entire operation was funded by several large investors. Um, no. That was a lie.

I remember thinking to myself, what sane person would pump 40-50 million (or whatever the needed capital was back then) into this type of business model?

Hey, I've got 50 million to invest. How about Microsoft stock? Nah. How about real estate? Nah. How about Gold? Nah

I know, there's a degenerate YOLO gambler guy named expo33. I think I'll invest in his ability to make money in the forex market. After all, he does have a track record of passing ONE challenge out of 10.

Of course, now the truth that everyone already knew has come out. Challenge fees are used to pay funded traders. When fee revenue goes down or funded traders make large amounts, then the rules will have to be changed.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #26,670
  • Edited 4:08pm Nov 27, 2023 3:39pm | Edited 4:08pm
FOUND IT. Could buy it for only $120 lifetime license for 1 Machine. SUPER EASY TO USE !

Thanks for contacting us.

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BlackFriday40forLatecomers

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--------------------------------------------------------------------

ONE question:

If you have 5 contracts at bid and offer side and you want to sell (market or limit) 5 contracts but on 20 accounts each, how does it work ?
Will they copy 100 contracts without slippage here, or do I need 1 tick against me on a limit order or is there huge slippage when entering market ?
How does Apex simulate this ?
  • #26,671
  • Nov 27, 2023 5:42pm Nov 27, 2023 5:42pm
Guys I have received money from RISE 4 working days + $15 fees
  • #26,672
  • Nov 27, 2023 6:35pm Nov 27, 2023 6:35pm
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} FTMO has a maximum capital allocation limit of $400K per trader or strategy at any given time. If you use a public EA that others use, that EA will have that same $400K maximum allocation. Once the EA is popular enough to hit that threshold, all traders using it will be considered a violation or breached.
Say you’re going to copy the trades triggered by such an EA before redirecting them to your prop trading account. Maybe you even tweak the variables a bit so not your trades wouldn’t be equally the same to any other other person using the „same“ third party EA.

How do they want to know that you’re using an EA in the first place? Especially if there are no kind of order comments left by the platform like „order executed by XX EA“ or similar…

2.) Say I am a discretionary trader who is trading any well known strategy out there perhaps traded by many other traders too. So this would mean I would be rejected in the first place after having a passed a challenge that I paid for?

regards.
  • #26,673
  • Nov 27, 2023 7:09pm Nov 27, 2023 7:09pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} 99% of them aren't copying a damn thing......therein lies the problem. From marketing/advertising to ability to pay. It is a casino....challenge fees go in, payouts go out. When not enough challenge fees come in, ability for payouts to go out becomes an issue.
Well you wrote that it’s risky for them. In my opinion a profitable trader requesting a payout is not a risk for them. They might be making less of a profit but probably still doing VERY well from the 99% who fail and even go purchasing a challenge over and over again. Do you really think the payouts which are requested and processed are that much bigger compared to the profits on fees, advertising and so on they make?

They can monitor and copy profitable traders while scaling in at their own/investors funds. So maybe a profitable trader paid out 2k is another 200k profit for them having placed the same trade at another account at another size.
  • #26,674
  • Nov 27, 2023 7:18pm Nov 27, 2023 7:18pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} MFF internal documents in the legal case contradict everything you said. Those were real facts and not our opinions here.
Okay. I didn’t see these documents were published here but that’s your point. Still a lot of opinions overall.
  • #26,675
  • Nov 27, 2023 7:38pm Nov 27, 2023 7:38pm
Quoting Expo33
He told me that the entire operation was funded by several large investors.
Interesting. That’s the same they told me where I came across FTMO for the first time in 2020, so 4 years later.

I believe I asked similar question in a live chat last year and still they spoke about investors to me.

The last time I reviewed their website a few months ago it also contained the wording of investors somewhere and I believe even in their terms or services it was used.

Overall they still look and feel to me as a the most reliable choice (especially as a EU based customer/trader). At least a little more „professional“ compared to all these many other prop firms founded by 16 year old YOLO traders flexing with the lambos on social media.
  • #26,676
  • Nov 27, 2023 7:45pm Nov 27, 2023 7:45pm
Quoting Expo33
Hey, I've got 50 million to invest. How about Microsoft stock? Nah. How about real estate? Nah. How about Gold? Nah I know, there's a degenerate YOLO gambler guy named expo33. I think I'll invest in his ability to make money in the forex market. After all, he does have a track record of passing ONE challenge out of 10.
Can’t stop laughing.
  • #26,677
  • Edited 8:55pm Nov 27, 2023 7:51pm | Edited 8:55pm
Anyone used e8funding 3 steps. Any reviews, comments or anything. Looking at their 400k 3step feels like a sweet deal…
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #26,678
  • Nov 27, 2023 9:23pm Nov 27, 2023 9:23pm
Quoting lddd
{quote} Say you’re going to copy the trades triggered by such an EA before redirecting them to your prop trading account. Maybe you even tweak the variables a bit so not your trades wouldn’t be equally the same to any other other person using the „same“ third party EA. How do they want to know that you’re using an EA in the first place? Especially if there are no kind of order comments left by the platform like „order executed by XX EA“ or similar… 2.) Say I am a discretionary trader who is trading any well known strategy out there perhaps traded...
Yes, this is why it's really dumb to use any EA that you have not written yourself. If there are enough similar trades, it will get flagged as group trading by most prop firms, or hit the max capital allocation if it's popular enough by firms that do allow it. They don't need to see a comment or magic number, they assume those have been changed anyway to conceal it.
  • #26,679
  • Nov 27, 2023 10:11pm Nov 27, 2023 10:11pm
My experience with Finotive Funding
I read reviews about this company. I know there are a lot of rules here. But from such a contradiction to the rules - I'm shocked.
After the first week of work, I requested a withdrawal of funds. I received a letter saying that my payout percentage was reduced because the stop loss rule was violated. After opening an order, the position must be protected by a stop loss for 60 seconds. I had one order on which I set a stop loss after 62 seconds. I didn't know this rule. It's a shame, but there are no complaints. The next week - everything was fine. Requested payment and received it. A week later, I request a payment and receive a reply that the payment was refused and my account was closed due to a violation of the rule. One order is closed without a stop loss.
This order was opened completely by accident. And I didn't even understand which way it opened, and instead of a stop loss, I set a take profit and closed it. But the most important thing: it worked for 15 seconds. Remembering the rule that I have to defend the position in 60 seconds, I closed it. Where is the logic?
I have not passed any challenges from them. I paid my money for instant replenishment of the account,
Every week I worked for profit
The balance is positive. And with all this, I also lost my money, which I paid for instant replenishment. Very similar to a fraudulent scheme.
  • #26,680
  • Nov 27, 2023 11:44pm Nov 27, 2023 11:44pm
haven't follow this thread for few weeks, missed so many posts,

Is there any other firm haunted by CFTC yet other than mff?

And what is the update of mff case as well.

Anyone knows anything

Plz share
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