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  • #25,061
  • Oct 30, 2023 10:40pm Oct 30, 2023 10:40pm
Quoting pipmaster77
From Apex site: EVALUATION DISCLAIMER: The customer pass rate of the evaluation program was 43.13% between January 1, 2023 – Sept 1, 2023, who traded at least one evaluation and obtained a PA Account during this time period. The Evaluation and PA is meant to be as close to a realistic simulation of trading under actual market conditions including commissions to mimic real market conditions and the evaluation is difficult to pass even for experienced traders. The event is not meant to train the customer to be better but to be a challenge to pass....
Well high pass rate is because they have 15-20$ evaluation (25K and/or 50K) so I can buy 20 of them and put random high risk trades (which makes sense because of trailing drawdown) and even if I trade randomly I can pass at least 1 of them. Now catch is once you pass you have to pay 140$ fees per account for 2.5K allowed trailing drawdown (50K account). And you have to again reach threshold which is like another evaluation to even qualify for withdrawal. if you consider above scenario 43% pass rate is pretty low. Real question is how many people makes withdrawal and what percentage.
So in futures prop firm passing evaluation is easier you just put high risk trades and they will give PA (live) account as they want to suck 140$ performance fees. Real rules starts once you get PA (live account) you cant do YOLO, trade news etc.
  • #25,062
  • Oct 30, 2023 11:06pm Oct 30, 2023 11:06pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Thats funny, you think there’s better trading conditions on CFD synthetics of futures products. You never hear futures traders complaining of “slippage.” All because farmers are angry…or something…
I never said CFD. I said futures like from CME obviously. That's why I talked about expiry and rollover. It's a known fact that OJ and agricultural commodities are illiquid compared to oil . Nothing I said is hard to comprehend. Fx is the most liquid market and that's why they can offer large account sizes.
  • #25,063
  • Oct 31, 2023 1:37am Oct 31, 2023 1:37am
Quoting sampat
{quote} Well high pass rate is because they have 15-20$ evaluation (25K and/or 50K) so I can buy 20 of them and put random high risk trades (which makes sense because of trailing drawdown) and even if I trade randomly I can pass at least 1 of them. Now catch is once you pass you have to pay 140$ fees per account for 2.5K allowed trailing drawdown (50K account). And you have to again reach threshold which is like another evaluation to even qualify for withdrawal. if you consider above scenario 43% pass rate is pretty low. Real question is how many...
I didn't get your calculation when saying 43% is low.
By high risk trades do you mean a coin flip to pass in one day and then complete remaining min days with small trades ?
  • #25,064
  • Oct 31, 2023 1:44am Oct 31, 2023 1:44am
Quoting Markula
{quote} I never said CFD. I said futures like from CME obviously. That's why I talked about expiry and rollover. It's a known fact that OJ and agricultural commodities are illiquid compared to oil . Nothing I said is hard to comprehend. Fx is the most liquid market and that's why they can offer large account sizes.
I'll just quote Haim Bodek on this. When someone asked him which market is the best to trade in. He said "He would never touch forex due to the simple reason the volume cannot be measured there and its on per broker basis too". Meaning only the traders volume per brokers is measured not even forex market volume as whole. So the volume data could be faked easily even or its in reality useless with forex trading in the trading terminals. Sure Forex might be the most liquid. But the real volume data is never shown in any broker.

Secondly institutions and banks just randomly dumps into the forex market so the price movements arent at all like in a normal stock market. You basically can just hope to surf on what the banks and institutions dumps and that you time it correctly.

This is prolly why some say oh forex market is harder to trade and harder to master no wonder. I mean even some guy like Haim Bodek says its nuts to trade forex it might make you wonder.
  • #25,065
  • Oct 31, 2023 1:59am Oct 31, 2023 1:59am
All started more than an year before
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  • #25,066
  • Edited 2:55am Oct 31, 2023 2:18am | Edited 2:55am
Quoting sampat
{quote} Well high pass rate is because they have 15-20$ evaluation (25K and/or 50K) so I can buy 20 of them and put random high risk trades (which makes sense because of trailing drawdown) and even if I trade randomly I can pass at least 1 of them. Now catch is once you pass you have to pay 140$ fees per account for 2.5K allowed trailing drawdown (50K account). And you have to again reach threshold which is like another evaluation to even qualify for withdrawal. if you consider above scenario 43% pass rate is pretty low. Real question is how many...
How did you just present an example of a 5% pass rate to explain a 43% pass rate?!?!?!?! That being said, I do agree gambling the eval due to lunch money low cost and no daily limit (all in yolo) is definitely a big part of it. I'm sure FX pass rates would be higher if you could do 1 8-10% risk trade. That is exactly what I did @ Apex. Once live you have to trade for at least 7 days without flipping micro contracts and no 1 day can be >30% of total profits... which means it's more difficult to reach the payout threshold (indirect phase 2) with just blind random luck, you actually have to know what you're doing and have some kind of an edge.`
  • #25,067
  • Oct 31, 2023 4:18am Oct 31, 2023 4:18am
No way I could do Future props. I would need a totally different strategy trading on indices instead on FX. I could gamble it, but I do not trust this as it can get expensive though. The 50k account is too small trading full lots/contracts only for me. But the 300k is also impossible to do, as there is the 30 days time limit before there is again any reset. If there was no time limit and I could trade the 300k for 2 or 3 months then it would be possible. But no way here. It would be too much gambling style for me. The problem is not the eval fee but the second round of fees which is then substantial. Then I need to trade consistently to get those +5% hurdle rate. I cannot do that with only $2500 drawdown here. And I do not like the idea to YOLO all. That is not my style. Maybe I am looking again for a tick trading strategy on ES Futures but not sure, as this is an uncertain strategy and have many discretionary elements too. But of course everyone needs to decide for himself on Fut props.
  • #25,068
  • Oct 31, 2023 4:30am Oct 31, 2023 4:30am
I mean I could go all in and yolo the 300k accounts. But then it is highly uncertain to get it passed within 30 calendar days for sure, because of the live trailing DD. I would need to yolo two times at least, that is too much gambling as it is too uncertain to get those trades. So the 20 accounts would cost me $1.3k in sum and with resets another $1.6k. If I need to do this 3 or 4 times it hurts to have burned around 5k. Then again there are more fees when funded. I don't like this idea at all.
  • #25,069
  • Oct 31, 2023 4:31am Oct 31, 2023 4:31am
I'm testing APEX,

this is tradovate app, I made net 2$ in some trading test of Micro, but app says 18$, why not able to calculate the net profit?

this because apex give you a simulated account, so this is different world from mt5.

The tradovate app so, not able to calculate the net profit? how I could get focus on trading with that?

if I use the same login on tradingview, at least there I can see the net equity showed correctly. Strange.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #25,070
  • Edited 4:51am Oct 31, 2023 4:41am | Edited 4:51am
Quoting forexbali
I'm testing APEX, this is tradovate app, I made net 2$ in some trading test of Micro, but app says 18$, why not able to calculate the net profit? this because apex give you a simulated account, so this is different world from mt5. The tradovate app so, not able to calculate the net profit? how I could get focus on trading with that? if I use the same login on tradingview, at least there I can see the net equity showed correctly. Strange. {image}
You cannot trust Tradovate. I heard so many nightmare stories about this, better forget it and get Rithmic with Quantower together. It is also much cheaper with Apex.
The difference is on 20 accounts $400 per month. So better to choose Rithmic. Also Tradingview is very lagging so you can expect to get more serious slippage here.
  • #25,071
  • Oct 31, 2023 5:00am Oct 31, 2023 5:00am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You cannot trust Tradovate. I heard so many nightmare stories about this, better forget it and get Rithmic with Quantower together. It is also much cheaper with Apex. The difference is on 20 accounts $400 per month. So better to choose Rithmic. Also Tradingview is very lagging so you can expect to get more serious slippage here.
ok that's why I tested the smallest account, ok I will check what you said
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,072
  • Oct 31, 2023 5:50am Oct 31, 2023 5:50am
But don't you think that apex payout are too high? it seem fake numbers, they speak so easily of millions paid in few months.

Do you think it is true?

22 millions$ payouts in 63 sessions?
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in holiday till end of November
  • #25,073
  • Oct 31, 2023 5:57am Oct 31, 2023 5:57am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} I had also jumped on that deal as well with 10 50K Tradovate accounts. (Total cost $180) I was with Tradeday and lasted as long just get the 5K payout. Wasn't interested in keeping it. Tradeday has a one account limit vs 20 with Apex. With Apex via built in trade copier its easy to spread the risk across multiple accounts and hit the 3k profit goal within the 7 days required. Now, granted they have a 2K per account withdraw limit for the first 3 months. But that's per account. 2K x 10 accounts = $20,000. 2 pay periods per month is $40,000...
hello, where I find details of the "built in" copier? where is it in apex site or tradovate or where?

and it works with tradovate or rithmic?
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,074
  • Oct 31, 2023 5:58am Oct 31, 2023 5:58am
Quoting forexbali
But don't you think that apex payout are too high? it seem fake numbers, they speak so easily of millions paid in few months. Do you think it is true? 22 millions$ payouts in 63 sessions? {image}
It does not make sense. This is only to show that there is higher demand right now with a lot of acceleration. So you are forced to jump in too. The numbers make no sense. If the average payout was $4.6 monthly since 2023. It means around $45 million for 2023. So from the total payouts since 2022 of $52 million. Only $ 7 million is then left for 2022. Again the last 3 months was reponsible for half of 2023 payouts so the other half of it for the last 7 months before the last 90 days period. I do not believe this. It looks by far to much accelerated. As this was the intention probably to show on the payouts stats. It is simply too suspicious.
  • #25,075
  • Edited 6:24am Oct 31, 2023 6:03am | Edited 6:24am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} hello, where I find details of the "built in" copier? where is it in apex site or tradovate or where? and it works with tradovate or rithmic?
Apex copier is for Ninjatrader, like the same Replikanto copier for Ninjatrader. Sierra Chart and Quantower have built-in free copy trading tool for Rithmic accounts.
https://support.apextraderfunding.co...the-same-time-
https://support.apextraderfunding.co...the-same-time-
https://forum.ninjatrader.com/forum/...simultaneously
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  • #25,076
  • Oct 31, 2023 6:28am Oct 31, 2023 6:28am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} hello, where I find details of the "built in" copier? where is it in apex site or tradovate or where? and it works with tradovate or rithmic?


The copier is under the Tools section. Its for Rithmic, not for Tradovate. Tradovate has a built in group trade manager. Group trades only work within Tradovate. Meaning any trades in Tradingview will not be mirrored in the trade group. Many use Replikanto as a more robust copier.

You need to slow down and read the FAQ section and go to their Youtube and Facebook groups. There's tons of information and answers to all your questions. You can search specifics in their FAQs as well.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,077
  • Oct 31, 2023 6:28am Oct 31, 2023 6:28am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Apex copier is for Ninjatrader, like the same Replikanto copier for Ninjatrader. Sierra Chart and Quantower have built-in free copy trading tool for Rithmic accounts. https://support.apextraderfunding.co...the-same-time- https://support.apextraderfunding.co...the-same-time-...

ok thank you, so sierra charts and quantower have their own built in solutions, while trader copier better for ninjatrader that doesn't have a built in solution.

if I understood well in few words

any solution for MAC users? any platform where I can scalp using directly a MAC? for example motiwave could connect with rithmic to the apex account?
anything better on MAC?
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,078
  • Oct 31, 2023 6:30am Oct 31, 2023 6:30am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} ok thank you, so sierra charts and quantower have their own built in solutions, while trader copier better for ninjatrader that doesn't have a built in solution. if I understood well in few words any solution for MAC users? any platform where I can scalp using directly a MAC? for example motiwave could connect with rithmic to the apex account? anything better on MAC?
Quit listening to someone who has zero experience in futures and zero experience in Futures Prop. That idiot only likes to run off at the mouth.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,079
  • Oct 31, 2023 6:33am Oct 31, 2023 6:33am
Quoting forexbali
I'm testing APEX, this is tradovate app, I made net 2$ in some trading test of Micro, but app says 18$, why not able to calculate the net profit? this because apex give you a simulated account, so this is different world from mt5. The tradovate app so, not able to calculate the net profit? how I could get focus on trading with that? if I use the same login on tradingview, at least there I can see the net equity showed correctly. Strange. {image}
Don't trade off the mobile and go visit the CME website so you know what your trading. There are commissions involved. There's a learning curve you'll have to take.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,080
  • Oct 31, 2023 6:35am Oct 31, 2023 6:35am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} How did you just present an example of a 5% pass rate to explain a 43% pass rate?!?!?!?! That being said, I do agree gambling the eval due to lunch money low cost and no daily limit (all in yolo) is definitely a big part of it. I'm sure FX pass rates would be higher if you could do 1 8-10% risk trade. That is exactly what I did @ Apex. Once live you have to trade for at least 7 days without flipping micro contracts and no 1 day can be >30% of total profits... which means it's more difficult to reach the payout threshold (indirect phase 2)...
Like I said before, FX numbnuts are going to have a problem wrapping Futures around their heads.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
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