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Does anyone still believe that Forex is a zero sum game? 15 replies

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If losers average losers, then I am a loser 10 replies

Forex: A Zero Sum Game? 18 replies

Attachments: Forex - A negative sum game for losers
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Forex - A negative sum game for losers

You both are the perfect representation of losers this forum mostly consists of. The shown account is a small public account of one of my systems. No connection to monetary amounts or my overall portfolio. But by creating links here you presume to know better. It is funny if it would not be so sad.

The rest of the ranting is collection of claims that fits their loser mentality.

claim: signal selling
prove: none (because nothing is for sale)

claim: victims are lurded in
prove: none (because there are none)

And for your most critical concern: you are invited to visit me as I am happy to show you my living out of this. Get in touch as I would be happy to crush your mantra of "there are no profitable FX traders in the long run".

Until then, I am happy taking your pips.
Quoting Drolph
You both are the perfect representation of losers this forum mostly consists of. The shown account is a small public account of one of my systems. No connection to monetary amounts or my overall portfolio. But by creating links here you presume to know better. It is funny if it would not be so sad. The rest of the ranting is collection of claims that fits their loser mentality. claim: signal selling prove: none (because nothing is for sale) claim: victims are lurded in prove: none (because there are none) And for your most critical concern: you...
So you have nothing credible to show except if someone comes to your place to ...see.
Oh, you're such an ordinary liar. Boring!...
Member
Quoting HudithePfupf
{quote} To bad this statement is not true.... think about why.
Actually, the whole "zero-sum game" thing only holds water if we're talking about trading in a vacuum. But in reality, money flows in and out of the trading world from various places, and whether I win or lose doesn't necessarily hinge on the market's current condition.

I mean, tomorrow could bring a fresh influx of funds into the market, or new investments might drive up the value of your assets. So, you can't really call it a "zero-sum" deal, if you catch my drift.

The "zero-sum" label only sticks to individual trades, not the entire trading scene itself.

I guess...
Quoting scherzi
{quote} Actually, the whole "zero-sum game" thing only holds water if we're talking about trading in a vacuum. But in reality, money flows in and out of the trading world from various places, and whether I win or lose doesn't necessarily hinge on the market's current condition. I mean, tomorrow could bring a fresh influx of funds into the market, or new investments might drive up the value of your assets. So, you can't really call it a "zero-sum" deal, if you catch my drift. The "zero-sum" label only sticks to individual trades, not the entire trading...
naw that's correct because I'm sure a scenario where you are in the red and I'm in the black because we're on opposite sides of the market then i TP and made money then the market turns around and you also TP then you made yours. that happens Thousands of time per day
Quoting hazelj80
{quote} naw that's correct because I'm sure a scenario where you are in the red and I'm in the black because we're on opposite sides of the market then i TP and made money then the market turns around and you also TP then you made yours. that happens Thousands of time per day
Also, by buying at candle open you win 50 % of the times. More than most traders do.

By buying below candle open you win 100% of the times markets close bullish.

For whom is that a zero-sum game, additionally?

There are many ways to tweak the formula and it only starts by changing one single factor.
Quoting Drolph
Hidden
I would say it in an other way: I always knew there is a way to earn money with forex and yes, there is a way /are ways. When I made 60% in 10 Months first time I was a bit shocked, checked if it was Luck. and in a way I was lucky but it wasn't luck .But I also have say this journey took me 20 years, 4 years of intense study and backtstesting get to know every characteristic of every pair I trade.

From my research I could write almost 2 PHD-Titles - just to get clear how much work it was and still is. To program a strategy is the basic, yes, but the main key to succes lies definetly also in the situations itself especially when trade opens.

To quote someone from the forum here: "all is there. Everything you need is to download 1 Minute quotes with open/high/low/close and get your answers." True words.

So, yes market is not random in every aspect but you have to remember: Forex market is probably the most professional market in the world. So it needs lots of work to get sth. out of it.
Quoting Drolph
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i can start from any tiny amount and grow to a million in a set time period, i have done it many times

forex is pure economics
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Quoting PatienceFx
{quote} i can start from any tiny amount and grow to a million in a set time period, i have done it many times forex is pure economics {image}
No comment, my friend.
Oh, ...except, good luck!
Member
Quoting DonPato
Trading is and always will be a ZERO SUM game. When you have completely understood the meaning of that phrase you will see that your expectations for trading (as evidenced by you above diatribe) are completely misplaced. Think of it this way... There is a reason the call this activity "SPECULATING". Put you big boy panties on and deal with it.
I agree with you in this regard and I don’t think experience can highly benefit a trader because trading is always speculative.
Quoting JackintheBox
{quote} I would say it in an other way: I always knew there is a way to earn money with forex and yes, there is a way /are ways. When I made 60% in 10 Months first time I was a bit shocked, checked if it was Luck. and in a way I was lucky but it wasn't luck .But I also have say this journey took me 20 years, 4 years of intense study and backtstesting get to know every characteristic of every pair I trade. From my research I could write almost 2 PHD-Titles - just to get clear how much work it was and still is. To program a strategy is the basic,...
Hi, Jack
Since you can do research solid enough for a couple of PhDs like, it must be easy for you to explain, so:
1. I'd ask you to clarify how did you come to the conclusion that 60% in 10 months wasn't luck. How do you prove that it wasn't luck ? I am a little skeptic about that because when it comes to long run consistent growth in FX trading, the absence of evidence is not proof of existence, you know.
2. What happened after your first "shock" of making 60% in 10 months ?
Member
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} absence of evidence is not
While
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
it is probably quite simple to prove:
experiment:
a) a person is trading her/his system
b) at the same time the same trades are taken aleatorily
start with 1000 trades (Gaussian distribution) and work yourself up from there.
But you could have done that instead of starting this thread.
Bickering, arguing etc is always a waste of people's time...
Quoting josi
{quote} While absence of evidence is not evidence of absence it is probably quite simple to prove: experiment: a) a person is trading her/his system b) at the same time the same trades are taken aleatorily start with 1000 trades (Gaussian distribution) and work yourself up from there. But you could have done that instead of starting this thread. Bickering, arguing etc is always a waste of people's time...
If bickering, arguing etc is always a waste of people's time... then why the hell are you here ?
Member
Quoting TudorIoan
{quote} Hi, Jack Since you can do research solid enough for a couple of PhDs like, it must be easy for you to explain, so: 1. I'd ask you to clarify how did you come to the conclusion that 60% in 10 months wasn't luck. How do you prove that it wasn't luck ? I am a little skeptic about that because when it comes to long run consistent growth in FX trading, the absence of evidence is not proof of existence, you know. 2. What happened after your first "shock" of making 60% in 10 months ?
Hi, I have to admit it sounds a bit weird. I just traded and traded and I never really checked how much I gained overall. For me the focus was to win, get more out when I close than I put in before. It wasn't luck because I checked it before I started to trade with backtests and later I researched the difference between my system and pure roulette. But you are correct, it wasn't deep enough. I really wanted to know the difference between just "luck" and a system that works.

After the "shock" I stopped trading because I saw situations where I would have lost a lot of money -which never occured during these 10 months. So I had to dig deeper because I did not wanted to trade on pure luck and lose a lot and wasted my time.

To test systems you have to "translate" your trades into a roulette system (e.g. black and red etc.) and test it with roulette generated numbers. Here I could see a difference. It wasn't profitable anymore with random generated numbers. I reseached even deeper and tried to "trick" the generated roulette numbers but it didn't work and there is a reason for that:
Random generated numbers have no connection to each other but on the markets quotes before have a connection to the current time. So past is conneced to now and the future on the markets. That is the main key why you can earn money on the markets.

No one is telling you that because they don'T want you to understand that because they earn money with that knowledge. I give you an example: Let's say you open a trade at. 1.4050 with a stop of 1.3995, so 55 pips SL. Reason: You think it is an uptrend.

What professionals do know is they short the market to get your SL at 1.3995. So the market is turning from 1.4050 to 1.4020 to 1.4000 etc. and their average short positions is really bad, so if market would turn upwards again they would lose a lot of money to cover that. But: They sell even more and bang: your SL at 1.3995 is hit. What happens now is that you provide cover possbilities for their shorts, even if they shorted at 1.4005, they gain now 10 pips because you provide selling at 1.3995 for them.

So what is the conclusion of that you ask? Well, it is not about Stop-Loss hunting or not using Stop-loss. It is about that market is NOT random. They pushed the market with real money from 1.4050 to 1.3995 because you said a mark EARLIER at 1.3995... so that affected the price now and in future...

I hope that helps. Most people who are profitable on the markets never tell you their exact system. The reason for that is because that's their income source. In few cases it makes sense to share profitable strategys, for example if you always trade the open of NY Stocks. You cannot trade all simoultaniously so you need other traders to "copy" you system approach. Trading is extremely complex, I have not found anything which comes close to real life stuff.

But I have to admit: If someone would ask me if he/she should start trading I would say: Don't do it, it is a huge waste of time and it is 10 times easier to gain your first 500.000 Dollar with a non trading company. When you go beyond 500k than markets are better but who earned already 500 k in real life in his 40's for example (i mean wealth which lays around on bank accounts for using freely on the markets)??
but who earned already 500 k in real life in his 40's = Me, but was a long crazyfuckin road
B4 Elvis there was nothing
Quoting T721
but who earned already 500 k in real life in his 40's = Me, but was a long crazyfuckin road
500k - earning by luck have a lot (alone in this coins, stocks ...), earning by investing stocks buy and hold over decades have really many, earning by real estate have a many many too.... .
earning by successful over decades consistent intraday or swing trading with 10000-100.000 trades have not many.
Quoting Trader191
{quote} 500k - earning by luck have a lot (alone in this coins, stocks ...), earning by investing stocks buy and hold over decades have really many, earning by real estate have a many many too.... . earning by successful over decades consistent intraday or swing trading with 10000-100.000 trades have not many.
You right, there are very few traders earning that amount. This is a tough game. 1st 4yrs i lost over 120k (gbp) took 4 or 5 yrs i think just to get that back. So you have to put in the time and educate yourself well. Imo this is the hardest Game in the World to play. And will take plenty of time even to get to making a consistent 500$ a week to start with but it can be done pal. I swing trade but also day trade in another account just for wages
B4 Elvis there was nothing
Quoting T721
{quote} You right, there are very few traders earning that amount. This is a tough game. 1st 4yrs i lost over 120k (gbp) took 4 or 5 yrs i think just to get that back. So you have to put in the time and educate yourself well. Imo this is the hardest Game in the World to play. And will take plenty of time even to get to making a consistent 500$ a week to start with but it can be done pal. I swing trade but also day trade in another account just for wages
trading is super easy when you get be a trader over 5-10 years of educate and try out and find out and increase.
like in any other business and job.

but many never get be a trader, they only think they are and call themself, most stay at gambler level and do not even know it. but you cant teach this people often, they will not learn, 10-20% of People are not possible to learn because their character blocks them to extrem for get be a trader on the end, other business suits more for them. unfortunately for them trading looks for this 10-20% very attractive and their character often do not let them accept failing and do what they can do better.
  • Post #640
  • Quote
  • Edited Oct 17, 2023 1:49am Oct 16, 2023 5:10am | Edited Oct 17, 2023 1:49am
Ok guys, why can't we keep a decent argument here ?!
First: We don't talk unique special geniuses like many of you... We talk statistics
Then: it's very important HOW you make those 500K.
- Technically, one can easily make 500K out of only 6 consecutive winning trades starting with 100K betting/risk one third per trade. (1.33^6*10⁵)
- Or, make 400K in only two bets - all in, only two shots, starting with 100K. (2²*10⁵)
What the fck is that ?!? Proves what ?
Now let's talk about being "consistent on short term":
- Like making 500K in 4 months starting with 10K at some consistent reward rate of just 5% on average, trading every fkn day.
(1.05daily_rate ^ 80days*10000)
Easy, only +5% per day, only 4 months trading. Reasonable, huh !?!
- What about making gross 1.2 million dollars in just one year starting with only 1000 dollars at some consistent average profit rate of just 3% per day !!!!!!!
(1.03daily rate ^ 240trading days * 1000 dollars)
Easy peasy lemon squeezy, huh !! Any experienced trader can do that, right !!!
Then why the hell stats say 95% can't ?!?
Where are their fkn millions ?!? Oh, real winners are very discreet, yeah, sure!
What ?! Oh, they never get experienced enough to make only 3% per day (daily average/one year) ?!?
Or's just a fkn myth to lure those fkn degenerate gamblers and dumb braggarts ?
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