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  • #23,401
  • Edited 6:03pm Oct 1, 2023 5:44pm | Edited 6:03pm
Quoting Zebi
{quote} you just defined a ponzi scheme What is a Ponzi Oxford dictionary? noun. /ˈpɑnzi ˌskim/ a plan for making money that involves encouraging people to invest by offering them a high rate of interest and using their money to pay earlier investors. hope you wont argue overa dictionary definition which is pretty much just like yours LOL this thread is more entertaining than watching midget wrestling


or maybe you prefer the pyramid scheme

What's the difference between a Ponzi and pyramid scheme?
Ponzi schemes can be easier to detect while pyramid schemes can be hidden to make them look legitimate. Ponzi schemes simply require a cash investment to earn returns. Pyramid schemes, on the other hand, need you to pay a fee and/or purchase products and services in order to participate and earn income.
short trump and go long the deepstate
  • #23,402
  • Oct 1, 2023 6:17pm Oct 1, 2023 6:17pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} What marketing mehtods do you speak of? They were pretty low key.
If you dont know what I mean. Then I suggest to use waybackmachine website then compare FTMOs marketing anytime in history with MFF. Even Earn2Trade to compare that with MFF just 3 months ago. Their blogs social media and so on.
  • #23,403
  • Oct 1, 2023 7:19pm Oct 1, 2023 7:19pm
Quoting Zebi
{quote} or maybe you prefer the pyramid scheme What's the difference between a Ponzi and pyramid scheme? Ponzi schemes can be easier to detect while pyramid schemes can be hidden to make them look legitimate. Ponzi schemes simply require a cash investment to earn returns. Pyramid schemes, on the other hand, need you to pay a fee and/or purchase products and services in order to participate and earn income.
table: comparing Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes:
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  • #23,404
  • Oct 1, 2023 7:25pm Oct 1, 2023 7:25pm
Quoting MwlRCT
{quote} table: comparing Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes: {image} {image}
Thanks for that never thought about those differences myself. Kinda makes it all more clear what we deal with here. I bet that can make it tricky for some when it comes to ethical values. To use prop firms who use live accounts which then also means more hassle for you as trader meaning more fees, more tax issues. Or to take the easier route to promote a ponzi based business. Then theres also the issue how could one know if a prop firm uses a ponzi based business even if they provide and say they do live accounts. If one wants to stay ethically clean.

This literally removes all forex prop firms directly if one wants to stay ethically clean and just few futures prop firms remain who say they only use live trading for funded accounts. One of the only futures prop firms who say so got a founder whose got fraud charges against him in binary options sector. You cannot make this up.
  • #23,405
  • Oct 1, 2023 7:51pm Oct 1, 2023 7:51pm
Quoting MwlRCT
{quote} table: comparing Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes: {image} {image}
A new third column begs to be installed under Prop Scheme heading. It kinda incorporates elements of both other schemes and a few new ones.
  • #23,406
  • Oct 1, 2023 7:57pm Oct 1, 2023 7:57pm
Which category does casino gaming fall under? Prop firms are probably closer to that business model.
  • #23,407
  • Oct 1, 2023 8:18pm Oct 1, 2023 8:18pm
Quoting AaronPriest
Which category does casino gaming fall under? Prop firms are probably closer to that business model.
Except that Casinos use betting machines and card games etc. They don't use financial instruments that are highly regulated.
They do use demos which are fake versions of the real instruments but it is murkey area to be operating in.
  • #23,408
  • Edited Oct 2, 2023 2:19am Oct 1, 2023 10:56pm | Edited Oct 2, 2023 2:19am
Quoting bukkake
People denying that these firms aren't ponzi-like: why should you be worried about drops in website traffic and new fees incoming? As long as you get your payout, nothing else matters right?
Even a burger house will close doors if from today no customer gets in. And it's not a ponzi.

People confuse ponzi with number of customers needed to run a business profitable.
  • #23,409
  • Oct 1, 2023 11:08pm Oct 1, 2023 11:08pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Except that Casinos use betting machines and card games etc. They don't use financial instruments that are highly regulated. They do use demos which are fake versions of the real instruments but it is murkey area to be operating in.
So, you went from "this is a ponzi" to "it's not a ponzi but it is missing a signed paper" ?
  • #23,410
  • Oct 1, 2023 11:10pm Oct 1, 2023 11:10pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} A new third column begs to be installed under Prop Scheme heading. It kinda incorporates elements of both other schemes and a few new ones.
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  • #23,411
  • Oct 1, 2023 11:20pm Oct 1, 2023 11:20pm
Quoting Zebi
{quote} you just defined a ponzi scheme What is a Ponzi Oxford dictionary? noun. /ˈpɑnzi ˌskim/ a plan for making money that involves encouraging people to invest by offering them a high rate of interest and using their money to pay earlier investors. hope you wont argue overa dictionary definition which is pretty much just like yours LOL this thread is more entertaining than watching midget wrestling on tv https://youtu.be/waWsj30fB8E
Yes like I said they are operating in a ponzi like fashion, pyrimd scheme like, probably even closer to the definitional truth. But even ctfc stopped short of calling mff ponzi or pyramid. You'll find little defense of prop firms from me if you are looking for entertainment.

I was aware before taking a challenge where the payouts came from and the likelihood that props would sooner or later face a regulatory crack down.

But those points alone do not bother me provided they actually payout. Prop firm users are not investors, they are not passively investing a bit of money awaiting some unrealistic return. They knowingly pay a fee to take a challenge that they should know, they have little chance of passing. For a prop firm owner the system is like owning a roulette table with more greens then reds or blacks.
  • #23,412
  • Oct 1, 2023 11:27pm Oct 1, 2023 11:27pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} So, you went from "this is a ponzi" to "it's not a ponzi but it is missing a signed paper" ?
"It is a ponzi and it is not a ponzi" is a conclusion that many have come to.
I'm not sure what you mean by missing a signed paper.
  • #23,413
  • Oct 1, 2023 11:28pm Oct 1, 2023 11:28pm
Quoting MwlRCT
{quote} {image} {image} {image}
If you meant normal forex prop firms there as I assume. Then the Money generation is the same as ponzi, they need new investors or investors to constantly pump it up to be able to pay out right. Not even investors ofc. I mean whos using A-Booking truly there has been alot of discussions about it and as I understand in reality no proof even FTMO uses that since not good for business.
Actual business shouldnt be Real trading operations. But into simulated or demo trading operations.
  • #23,414
  • Oct 1, 2023 11:31pm Oct 1, 2023 11:31pm
Quoting MwlRCT
{quote} {image} {image} {image}
Nice but very very favorably written for the props.

Also, who says pyramid scheme is illegal?
There is a lot of that going on.
https://www.epixelmlmsoftware.com/bl...panies-in-2018
  • #23,415
  • Oct 1, 2023 11:47pm Oct 1, 2023 11:47pm
People will never learn. The troll contrarian is always contrarian. Just ignore it and it will go away. You could literally say "you are a boy" and they will say "No i am a girl" ok so you're a girl "No I am a boy". Wasted energy.
  • #23,416
  • Oct 1, 2023 11:50pm Oct 1, 2023 11:50pm
Quoting labu
{quote} If you meant normal forex prop firms there as I assume. Then the Money generation is the same as ponzi, they need new investors or investors to constantly pump it up to be able to pay out right. Not even investors ofc. I mean whos using A-Booking truly there has been alot of discussions about it and as I understand in reality no proof even FTMO uses that since not good for business. Actual business shouldnt be Real trading operations. But into simulated or demo trading operations.
Definitions matter. But what you are basically describing is every single forex broker, a large portion of futures brokers that are not located in the US and exchange members, various other significant services in the financial ecosystem etc.

The method of offloading risk is all that matters. An outlet for risk is what eliminates the ponzi argument. You cannot offload risk from a ponzi scheme it just collapses when the assured return is no longer able to be paid.

This discussion is interesting an all, but the premise is entirely wrong because the word "ponzi" is being discussed and the term "investors" is being used. There are no investor, it is not a ponzi but it certainly is something new that needs a definition and likely regulation. But that regulation should not force trades as is to go to the market as that is financial suicide.
  • #23,417
  • Oct 2, 2023 12:26am Oct 2, 2023 12:26am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} So, you went from "this is a ponzi" to "it's not a ponzi but it is missing a signed paper" ?
I found the missing signed papers
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  • #23,418
  • Oct 2, 2023 12:48am Oct 2, 2023 12:48am
5ers rules.. beautiful....
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  • #23,419
  • Oct 2, 2023 12:54am Oct 2, 2023 12:54am
Quoting Takisd
5ers rules.. beautiful.... {image}
I was surprised to read you recommend these sharks..
  • #23,420
  • Oct 2, 2023 12:54am Oct 2, 2023 12:54am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} I was surprised to read you recommend these sharks..
They have financial stability.

I can see lots of others being insolvent right now.
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