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  • #20,761
  • Sep 5, 2023 1:32pm Sep 5, 2023 1:32pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Maybe, but where is the intent. Most would attest to them paying out the biggest, the most and for amongst the longest (with few paying out as long as them). I guess that created an illusion that every trade was real? But wouldn't it be a breach of fiduciary duty if you took that route and lost all the money and closed the company whilst knowing that the best route to take to manage the companies risk was the route taken.
I agree that taking all to real would be catastrophic because it would bankrupt the company.
Keeping things at B-book (as a videogame) is what made the business sustainable and people able to receive payouts.

I'm just focusing in the initial marketing preposition. They sold challenges based in false premises. The whole thing was a videogame and not a real prop (yep, B-brokers are similar but that's irrelevant here).

So, it was misleading, deceit but can this be considered a fraud (legally speaking) ? I have no idea.
  • #20,762
  • Sep 5, 2023 1:35pm Sep 5, 2023 1:35pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} You are right about that but these props aren't operating under videogame industry's rules. There is no financial videogame industry and no cross engagement of the trading and videogame industry that I know of. Doing something illegal or at least shady grey under the umbrella of one industry and when caught claiming they were playing under an imaginary industry's rules isn't going to get them anywhere but OK for non-consequential arguments on a a financial entertainment site such as FF.
Fine, these are good points. But you see why I'm saying you should not call it a ponzi ?
This was a sustainable videogame. Most of props are sustainable videogames, if risk is well managed and they have enough customers for that videogame.
  • #20,763
  • Sep 5, 2023 1:35pm Sep 5, 2023 1:35pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I agree that taking all to real would be catastrophic because it would bankrupt the company. Keeping things at B-book (as a videogame) is what made the business sustainable and people able to receive payouts. I'm just focusing in the initial marketing preposition. They sold challenges based in false premises. The whole thing was a videogame and not a real prop (yep, B-brokers are similar but that's irrelevant here). So, it was misleading, deceit but can this be considered a fraud (legally speaking) ? I have no idea.
yeh, I think the stp element eliminates both parts because yes at some stage people could get access to a margin account that was in the companies name. Its very grey, likely this will end up settled out of court.

Wild card - MFF works with CFTC to fix prop firm regulation after paying a fine.
  • #20,764
  • Sep 5, 2023 1:38pm Sep 5, 2023 1:38pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} yeh, I think the stp element eliminates both parts because yes at some stage people could get access to a margin account that was in the companies name. Its very grey, likely this will end up settled out of court. Wild card - MFF works with CFTC to fix prop firm regulation after paying a fine.
  • #20,765
  • Sep 5, 2023 1:38pm Sep 5, 2023 1:38pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} In reality if MFF is a ponzi then all b-bookers are also ponzi because they use losers funds and equity to pay out profits. That would also make a-bookers and LP's ponzi because they also use client funds to pay out profitable traders. Found this on one channel. They should have known better. {image}
This is some funny stuff. What a timing for that comment.
  • #20,766
  • Sep 5, 2023 1:47pm Sep 5, 2023 1:47pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} yeh, I think the stp element eliminates both parts because yes at some stage people could get access to a margin account that was in the companies name. Its very grey, likely this will end up settled out of court. Wild card - MFF works with CFTC to fix prop firm regulation after paying a fine.
That would be really wild because:

Applying for registration or claiming exemption from
registration with the CFTC in any capacity, and engaging in any
activity requiring such registration or exemption from
registration with the CFTC except as provided for in Regulation
4.14(a)(9), 17 C.F.R. § 4.14(a)(9) (2022); and
7) Acting as a principal (as that term is defined in Regulation
3.1(a), 17 C.F.R. § 3.1(a) (2022)), agent, or any other officer or
employee of any person registered, exempted from registration,
or required to be registered with the CFTC except as provided
for in 17 C.F.R. § 4.14(a)(9).
  • #20,767
  • Sep 5, 2023 1:53pm Sep 5, 2023 1:53pm
Quoting CableJ
Any here take the risk of signing up for new challenges with US props since Friday?
Yeah, I signed up for a 10K Rapid challenge with TFT on Thursday night. I can't resist a good coupon.

Passed phase 1 in one day and then passed phase 2 in one day (sold 1 lot EUR/USD, 10 pip SL 50 pip TP) easy stuff.

Did the KYC and have funded the account already. Buy the challenge on Thursday, funded by Monday night. TADA!!!

$77 and I now have $800 of drawdown to play with. A few dollars and very little time invested so if they get shut down before the 14-day payout time frame then no big deal.

See mind blowing efficiency below
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #20,768
  • Sep 5, 2023 1:55pm Sep 5, 2023 1:55pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} That would be really wild because: Applying for registration or claiming exemption from registration with the CFTC in any capacity, and engaging in any activity requiring such registration or exemption from registration with the CFTC except as provided for in Regulation 4.14(a)(9), 17 C.F.R. § 4.14(a)(9) (2022); and 7) Acting as a principal (as that term is defined in Regulation 3.1(a), 17 C.F.R. § 3.1(a) (2022)), agent, or any other officer or employee of any person registered, exempted from registration, or required to be registered with...
Yeh its the wild card with a 0.00001% chance, but it would be one of the most amazing things I would have seen in my life in the sense that there is so much shock and aww that a company would be able to do that and that the cftc would consider doing it.
  • #20,769
  • Sep 5, 2023 1:56pm Sep 5, 2023 1:56pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Yeah, I signed up for a 10K Rapid challenge with TFT on Thursday night. I can't resist a good coupon. Passed phase 1 in one day and then passed phase 2 in one day (sold 1 lot EUR/USD, 10 pip SL 50 pip TP) easy stuff. Did the KYC and have funded the account already. Buy the challenge on Thursday, funded by Monday night. TADA!!! $77 and I now have $800 of drawdown to play with. A few dollars and very little time invested so if they get shut down before the 14-day payout time frame then no big deal. See mind blowing efficiency below...
Take those virtual profits to the bank homie.
  • #20,770
  • Sep 5, 2023 2:04pm Sep 5, 2023 2:04pm
Hi,
at the end it is very simple: "Follow the money!" They have made 300 mil. sales volume. It is a growing danger for the established trading industrie.... because they loose money. Money that has been spent some years ago at their shop. And now, they will create reasons to get the cashflow back.

Best
Chriss
  • #20,771
  • Sep 5, 2023 2:14pm Sep 5, 2023 2:14pm
Quoting chrissfx
Hi, at the end it is very simple: "Follow the money!" They have made 300 mil. sales volume. It is a growing danger for the established trading industrie.... because they loose money. Money that has been spent some years ago at their shop. And now, they will create reasons to get the cashflow back. Best Chriss
Money that otherwise would be traded on an offshore FX broker outside USA ? They would not care about it, I guess.
  • #20,772
  • Sep 5, 2023 2:17pm Sep 5, 2023 2:17pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Take those virtual profits to the bank homie.
Indeed I will.

I was actually going to take the $1600 I got from MFF right before they went bye-bye and purchase three 100K challenges from three different props but now I'm going to wait and see where the dust settles.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #20,773
  • Sep 5, 2023 2:19pm Sep 5, 2023 2:19pm
Quoting chrissfx
Hi, at the end it is very simple: "Follow the money!" They have made 300 mil. sales volume. It is a growing danger for the established trading industrie.... because they loose money. Money that has been spent some years ago at their shop. And now, they will create reasons to get the cashflow back. Best Chriss
Exactly. Only the very naive cannot see through that. Then again, the naive have a hard time seeing through anything.
  • #20,774
  • Sep 5, 2023 2:32pm Sep 5, 2023 2:32pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Yeah, I signed up for a 10K Rapid challenge with TFT on Thursday night. I can't resist a good coupon. Passed phase 1 in one day and then passed phase 2 in one day (sold 1 lot EUR/USD, 10 pip SL 50 pip TP) easy stuff. Did the KYC and have funded the account already. Buy the challenge on Thursday, funded by Monday night. TADA!!! $77 and I now have $800 of drawdown to play with. A few dollars and very little time invested so if they get shut down before the 14-day payout time frame then no big deal. See mind blowing efficiency below...
So you got over 10 x what you spent now in available loss, actually not really as the $77 was refunded back.
Good news, after the CFTC gets done protecting you from yourself, you can put that $77 in your own account and flip it 3.5 times to get to that same place. That shouldn't take too long. However, it is still not the same, because if you withdrawal it, you have nothing left to trade with.
Yes, sure is a good thing they're looking out for us. What on earth would we do without them protecting us?
  • #20,775
  • Sep 5, 2023 2:37pm Sep 5, 2023 2:37pm
Quoting pipmaster77
What I am saying is these particular regulators do ntohing for you, I or the average citizen wishing to make money in the forex market.
-I think that some people do not realize that compliance is not just about following the rules, it comes at a very heavy and costly burden. Not only that, but not everyone agrees with all of the rules because they are unnecessary and should not even fall within the scope of these agencies, or any other, for that matter.

People should be able to do with their money as they wish, so long as it is legal. For regulators to tell others 'how dare you provide services to our citizens without our permission (or without paying for the privilege)' is a big, fat joke. Let me opt-out of your 'protections'.
  • #20,776
  • Sep 5, 2023 2:53pm Sep 5, 2023 2:53pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I think that some people do not realize that compliance is not just about following the rules, it comes at a very heavy and costly burden. Not only that, but not everyone agrees with all of the rules because they are unnecessary and should not even fall within the scope of these agencies, or any other, for that matter. People should be able to do with their money as they wish, so long as it is legal. For regulators to tell others 'how dare you provide services to our citizens without our permission (or without paying for the privilege)'...
Right, disclaimer simply stating "you may lose your money", check the box to acknowledge.
But that's not what it is about and we all (well most of us) know it.
  • #20,777
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:08pm Sep 5, 2023 3:08pm
Quoting Expo33
Buy the challenge on Thursday, funded by Monday night. TADA!!! $77 and I now have $800 of drawdown to play with.
I'm sure it's exactly like in a real prop firm, dealing with real money.
  • #20,778
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:13pm Sep 5, 2023 3:13pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Right, disclaimer simply stating "you may lose your money", check the box to acknowledge. But that's not what it is about and we all (well most of us) know it.
You may lose your money. YES/NO ?
Are you sure ? YES/NO ?
Are you dam sure ? YES/NO ?
This is your last chance to give up. Are you fck*ing sure ? YES/NO ?

These 4 sequential question would be enough to replace the entire regulation worldwide
  • #20,779
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:17pm Sep 5, 2023 3:17pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
If they say that MFF rules were intended for people to fail, then they should look at the funded futures sector. Nearly everyone of them have rules akin to landmines that ensure failure. DD rules included, insane profit limit rules, etc. FX Prop pales in comparison.

Apex trading has no live accounts, It's a simulated trading video game just like the forex prop side. However, after the MFF takedown the Futures props seem to have no fear of the CFTC bringing the hammer down on them...

Futures props are promoting US controlled exchange markets not competition the CFTC/NFA/CME/CBOT/COMEX/ICE/NYMEX don't control or make money from. It's the sole reason CFDs are banned in the United Sates in the 1st place.
  • #20,780
  • Sep 5, 2023 3:21pm Sep 5, 2023 3:21pm
I might purchase a 5K one-step from Maven for $29 just so CEO Hunter boy can afford some hair gel.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
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