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  • #19,661
  • Sep 1, 2023 2:58pm Sep 1, 2023 2:58pm
I am sorry to say... the quality has gone down recently in every governmental opearations.

Even C ***R ****A
Intraday only.
  • #19,662
  • Sep 1, 2023 2:59pm Sep 1, 2023 2:59pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote} MFF have clients from....USA. So...they must to be regulated in USA. That say Ontario securities... A lot of brokers,from.world, don't accept USA citizen to be customers, because they affrayed about USA regulated....
The notice does not talk about broker.

It talks about Prop form, prop firm model and Firm owner for which no regulation needed.
Intraday only.
  • #19,663
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:01pm Sep 1, 2023 3:01pm
Quoting navk
{quote} You mean private company owners are not allowed to have dinner at company expense ? Or buy a car for company use ? This needs to be proved in the court of law ? Silly..i mean Ontarians way of writing notices.
No, what I mean is that 'private company owners' must clearly identify what portion of the money of the clients is for their fees and what portion of the money is managed on behalf of the client. I am pretty sure that money managed for the client cannot be spent on speculative transactions to identify potential forex traders as an example. The private company owners fees could be used for this purpose.
  • #19,664
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:02pm Sep 1, 2023 3:02pm
Quoting navk
I am sorry to say... the quality has gone down recently in every governmental opearations. Even C ***R ****A
Well they need money to distribute freebies and get votes elections are coming ........
  • #19,665
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:11pm Sep 1, 2023 3:11pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} Well they need money to distribute freebies and get votes elections are coming ........
Yes, referring to my post about half the world not having commn sense. The elections are coming and guess what is starting again.....the scamdemic, mask mandates.......mark and save this post.......I guarantee we will be locked up in our houses just in time for the election next year....more mail-in ballots, all the same shit they pulled in 2020. Yet half the population cannot put 2+2 together.
  • #19,666
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:23pm Sep 1, 2023 3:23pm
Quoting dantpm
{quote} No, what I mean is that 'private company owners' must clearly identify what portion of the money of the clients is for their fees and what portion of the money is managed on behalf of the client. I am pretty sure that money managed for the client cannot be spent on speculative transactions to identify potential forex traders as an example. The private company owners fees could be used for this purpose.
No other firm in canada or elsewhere do not do this or what ?

It is unregulated industry.

We all know this. We are happy once paid... whether the mpney to me comes from your challenge fees. No one bothered. Even govt not bothered for many years.

The model is like that.

I remeber seen this TFTP owner said same sentence.

It is my firm, and i am private citizen.. damn..you can not do anything to me.

( He meant, the prop firm model is un regulated so no one can question him )
Intraday only.
  • #19,667
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:24pm Sep 1, 2023 3:24pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So, if there are no actual investors, then they are considering us (the traders/ purchasers of challenges) the investors? Three places the money comes from: 1. The owner(s) either provide the capital for the trading, in which case there is no crime. I recall in the beginning the owner claiming he started MFF with his winnings from bitcoin. OR 2. If there is no actual trading of any live funds, we (the traders) are the investors and the winners among us are paid from the fees of the failed challenges.....not much different than a broker,...
IMO you are kind of nailing it in point 2. as they seem to claim that the challenge fees are actually investor funds and those funds are being used to make payments to other investors and for own use. This is a typical specification of a ponzi scheme. Therefore it makes no difference if MFF runs it's own brokerage or not. They probably have enough evidence to prove the modus operandi being a ponzi in court.
  • #19,668
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:28pm Sep 1, 2023 3:28pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} IMO you are kind of nailing it in point 2. as they seem to claim that the challenge fees are actually investor funds and those funds are being used to make payments to other investors and for own use. This is a typical specification of a ponzi scheme. Therefore it makes no difference if MFF runs it's own brokerage or not. They probably have enough evidence to prove the modus operandi being a ponzi in court.
I would call challenge fee as examination fee.

Once you pass examination, they give certificate of passing.

lol
Intraday only.
  • #19,669
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:28pm Sep 1, 2023 3:28pm
Quoting navk
{quote} No other firm in canada or elsewhere do not do this or what ? It is unregulated industry. We all know this. We are happy once paid... whether the mpney to me comes from your challenge fees. No one bothered. Even govt not bothered for many years. The model is like that. I remeber seen this TFTP owner said same sentence. It is my firm, and i am private citizen.. damn..you can not do anything to me. ( He meanr, ht prop firm model is un regulated so no one can question him )
Sorry navk, that sounds like your private citizen / owner of the company didn't do research and complete proper due diligence for how to set up and manage his company. It doesn't work like that! There are rules that govern every type of business in Canada, the US and so on depending on what the company is doing.
  • #19,670
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:31pm Sep 1, 2023 3:31pm
Quoting dantpm
{quote} Sorry navk, that sounds like your private citizen / owner of the company didn't do research and complete proper due diligence for how to set up and manage his company. It doesn't work like that! There are rules that govern every type of business in Canada, the US and so on depending on what the company is doing.
I agree and depends what License MFF has.

But they can not question owner for spending lunch/ dinner.

Childish.
Intraday only.
  • #19,671
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:35pm Sep 1, 2023 3:35pm
Quoting dantpm
{quote} Sorry navk, that sounds like your private citizen / owner of the company didn't do research and complete proper due diligence for how to set up and manage his company. It doesn't work like that! There are rules that govern every type of business in Canada, the US and so on depending on what the company is doing.
I would say the attack on MFF in particular has some reasons.

There are so many private firms.. all fuctioning correctly as per license ?

It is like " catch MFF at any cost " and find reasons for the same.
Intraday only.
  • #19,672
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:35pm Sep 1, 2023 3:35pm
Quoting navk
{quote} No other firm in canada or elsewhere do not do this or what ? It is unregulated industry. We all know this. We are happy once paid... whether the mpney to me comes from your challenge fees. No one bothered. Even govt not bothered for many years. The model is like that. I remeber seen this TFTP owner said same sentence. It is my firm, and i am private citizen.. damn..you can not do anything to me. ( He meant, the prop firm model is un regulated so no one can question him )
Right, but the problem arises when they are deemed to be doing something THAT SHOULD BE REGULATED and they are not registered with the proper agencies who should be regulating them.
  • #19,673
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:36pm Sep 1, 2023 3:36pm
Quoting TraderTero
This is a typical specification of a ponzi scheme. Therefore it makes no difference if MFF runs it's own brokerage or not. They probably have enough evidence to prove the modus operandi being a ponzi in court.
-Maybe. But what if MFF can show that they do push certain trades to live market? What constitutes a ponzi? 90% 40% 10%? And who determines that? Should regulators tell MFF that they need to push at least 10% of their trades to live market?

Regulators should not be advising companies how to invest. That seems like a disaster.
  • #19,674
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:36pm Sep 1, 2023 3:36pm
Actually it is not a classic Ponzi, because they have rules to meet. On a classic Ponzi you are promised a return where nothing is invested and out of new money the older invested are paid. This is more like having an exam fee if you are qualified to obtain a payout later. That is important because we all know the passing rate until payout is very, very low. So in the end it is not a Ponzi by definition. It may look like one, but it is not in the end.
  • #19,675
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:38pm Sep 1, 2023 3:38pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Maybe. But what if MFF can show that they do push certain trades to live market? What constitutes a ponzi? 90% 40% 10%? And who determines that? Should regulators tell MFF that they need to push at least 10% of their trades to live market? Regulators should not be advising companies how to invest. That seems like a disaster.
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help"........famous last words.
  • #19,676
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:38pm Sep 1, 2023 3:38pm
The more concerning thing is that they operate an unregulated FX brokerage firm, with own infrastructure and servers. And any broker in US/CA needs to be regulated. So that can be an issue I think, which is first paragraph and most important one I guess in the regulators letter.
  • #19,677
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:39pm Sep 1, 2023 3:39pm
Quoting navk
{quote} I agree and depends what License MFF has. But they can not question owner for spending lunch/ dinner. Childish.
Might be good to start to think what it means when the business model is being defined as a ponzi scheme in court.
  • #19,678
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:40pm Sep 1, 2023 3:40pm
CFTC press release for those interested:

https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8771-23
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #19,679
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:41pm Sep 1, 2023 3:41pm
Just to be more clear a classic Ponzi must fail, because they need more and more fresh money to pay the older money. But this is here not the case as every trader has its challenge with rules to meet. So this can work in the long run, on a Ponzi definition this would be impossible.
  • #19,680
  • Sep 1, 2023 3:42pm Sep 1, 2023 3:42pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Maybe. But what if MFF can show that they do push certain trades to live market? What constitutes a ponzi? 90% 40% 10%? And who determines that? Should regulators tell MFF that they need to push at least 10% of their trades to live market? Regulators should not be advising companies how to invest. That seems like a disaster.
You cannot use any part of investors' funds to pay other investors.
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