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  • #18,941
  • Aug 24, 2023 8:16am Aug 24, 2023 8:16am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} they have a massive advantage. If they are fxpig which by all accounts they are, they could literally hedge broker flow vs prop flow and get some benefit. I don't think they are though because they tried to enter the market with the stupid immediate withdrawal thing as a gimmick. Its not viable because why would you make that flow live so fast without any reliable data? Even a broker would b-book that new entry flow until they see more of it to understand how to manage it properly. But, definitely has capital and a decent amount of knowledge...
Thank you, I appreciate your responses
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #18,942
  • Aug 24, 2023 9:04am Aug 24, 2023 9:04am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} they have a massive advantage. If they are fxpig which by all accounts they are, they could literally hedge broker flow vs prop flow and get some benefit. I don't think they are though because they tried to enter the market with the stupid immediate withdrawal thing as a gimmick. Its not viable because why would you make that flow live so fast without any reliable data? Even a broker would b-book that new entry flow until they see more of it to understand how to manage it properly. But, definitely has capital and a decent amount of knowledge...
Maybe it's wishful thinking but I agree that FXIFY will be around for a while.

At this moment my bet of props to stay longer in the market is:
FTMO/MFF/TFT/FXIFY
TFF/E8 -> these two may be struggling more than the other four

This is based just in gut feeling
(it's a lie -> obviously I'm being paid generously by these companies to say this)
  • #18,943
  • Aug 24, 2023 11:23am Aug 24, 2023 11:23am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} What am I missing here? I must not be in the correct discord category.
Just FTMO entering the discord space.... it's only a mater of time before the "what is rollover" "why was my sl not respected @ NFP/CPI/FOMC release" types in MFF/TFT's discord invade their discord too.
  • #18,944
  • Aug 24, 2023 11:31am Aug 24, 2023 11:31am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Just FTMO entering the discord space.... it's only a mater of time before the "what is rollover" "why was my sl not respected @ NFP/CPI/FOMC release" types in MFF/TFT's discord invade their discord too.
Its going to be very interesting to see how they respond to it. FTMO are a solid firm but their support has always been colder than ice. Perhaps they take the TFT route and just ban the crap out of everyone.
  • #18,945
  • Aug 24, 2023 11:38am Aug 24, 2023 11:38am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Maybe it's wishful thinking but I agree that FXIFY will be around for a while. At this moment my bet of props to stay longer in the market is: FTMO/MFF/TFT/FXIFY TFF/E8 -> these two may be struggling more than the other four This is based just in gut feeling (it's a lie -> obviously I'm being paid generously by these companies to say this)
I think e8 is pretty much done. The amount of shrinkage that has happened to them is so big i dont see them recovering. TFF seems to be healthy right now. TFT i think is smoke and mirrors but still large but not larger than ftmo as they are projecting. From the bits of information leaked out by them and other prop firms on systems like them i dont think their margins are very big so they rely on new purchases a lot. I think FTMO has the biggest margins but they also seem to be misbehaving lately if twitter and telegram is to be believed.
  • #18,946
  • Aug 24, 2023 11:39am Aug 24, 2023 11:39am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Just FTMO entering the discord space.... it's only a mater of time before the "what is rollover" "why was my sl not respected @ NFP/CPI/FOMC release" types in MFF/TFT's discord invade their discord too.
ahhh, OK. I thought there was someone i there saying they got denied thier 100K payout or something.
  • #18,947
  • Edited 11:58am Aug 24, 2023 11:42am | Edited 11:58am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I think e8 is pretty much done. The amount of shrinkage that has happened to them is so big i dont see them recovering. TFF seems to be healthy right now. TFT i think is smoke and mirrors but still large but not larger than ftmo as they are projecting. From the bits of information leaked out by them and other prop firms on systems like them i dont think their margins are very big so they rely on new purchases a lot. I think FTMO has the biggest margins but they also seem to be misbehaving lately if twitter and telegram is to be believed....
Yes, I agree.......MFF, FTMO, TFF and if TFTP does indeed implement their own server, should be strong as well.
I will wait until that occurs before adding with them.
E8 should have not resisted on the unlimited when everyone else adapted. You think they lost that much that they won't recover?
  • #18,948
  • Aug 24, 2023 12:31pm Aug 24, 2023 12:31pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, I agree.......MFF, FTMO, TFF and if TFTP does indeed implement their own server, should be strong as well. I will wait until that occurs before adding with them. E8 should have not resisted on the unlimited when everyone else adapted. You think they lost that much that they won't recover?
it doesnt seem like not adding unlimited days was the reason they died. It just seems like they didnt have enough of a foothold or reputation to survive a marketplace full of prop firms offering the same thing.

The one thing that is ragingly obvious to anyone who is paying attention is that people are more likely to get a big payout from MFF than any other firm and FTMO has an old history of big payouts (but not a new one). If you look at the lists on other firms, the payouts are smaller, so it appears that the smaller account market is the one the fight is about and with so many bonuses and bullshit its hard to compete without becoming a dollar tree version of a prop firm. Even reputable people in the market place (riz, omar etc) are resorting to cheap marketing tactics to get traders in the door. The quality isnt there. MFF FTMO TFF TFT are lucky to be there from day one, but even TFT they seem to only promote payouts over time at like 60k or 100k. MFF you see them every week for single payouts. Something strange is going on there where it just seems like large payouts aren't a thing at TFT. FTMO have stopped promoting those things probably because its dangerous to pay influencers to fake payouts because too many people will see where the bodies are buried. Its very weird. TFF i think is the silent assassin here, on a red list, keep relatively quiet, but still have success. It goes without saying other than MFF and FTMO, TFF is more impressive with how they have held market share. The rest are so loud so many coupons and bonuses and give this and that and change this and that. There was nothing wrong with the original model, unlimited time could arguably be added but there was no reason to make things like "7.5% profit target". I think the market as a whole has realized that and we are seeing a fear greed index for prop firms. I wouldn't be surprised if all the traders who once used FTMO or MFF and left for others, return to them again out of fear that the other firms will die ultimately causing them to die.
  • #18,949
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:22pm Aug 24, 2023 1:22pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} it doesnt seem like not adding unlimited days was the reason they died. It just seems like they didnt have enough of a foothold or reputation to survive a marketplace full of prop firms offering the same thing. The one thing that is ragingly obvious to anyone who is paying attention is that people are more likely to get a big payout from MFF than any other firm and FTMO has an old history of big payouts (but not a new one). If you look at the lists on other firms, the payouts are smaller, so it appears that the smaller account market is...
I wonder if FXIFY will stay here and join the top 4 company eventually. They keep growing and started publishing their payouts on daily basis which is interesting to watch. They paid out over 450K in July (not bad for a 3 months old company), August seems good so far as well
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #18,950
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:26pm Aug 24, 2023 1:26pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I wonder if FXIFY will stay here and join the top 4 company eventually. They keep growing and started publishing their payouts on daily basis which is interesting to watch. They paid out over 450K in July (not bad for a 3 months old company), August seems good so far as well
They would have to loosen up a lot they seem pretty tight on rules so far. Lets see what end of year looks like because I am fairly sure something is coming that will shake the tree.
  • #18,951
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:31pm Aug 24, 2023 1:31pm
I don't care which firm may close out today or tomorrow, this applies to MFFX which some of you so dislike. Once I get funded, it's a free ride. As long as I don't have issues in trading and get my payouts, I want to join as many firms as I can, Why limit yourself to a few?
  • #18,952
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:37pm Aug 24, 2023 1:37pm
I wrote this in the FTMO thread yesterday but not had any responses yet so thought I would try here:

So I am currently doing a free trial. I only trade oil. I trade $250 a tick and have a 12 tick ($3000) Stop Loss on each trade. I would do a $100k Aggressive FTMO account so a max of 10% drawdown per day and 20% overall. The spread on USOil.cash varies between 2-3 ticks on the FTMO demo trial account.

The question I have is when the verification stages are passed etc and I've traded a 'live demo' account for 14 days and asked for my first withdrawal then are there any excuses that FTMO will come up with for not paying me? I read that before any profit split that FTMO have to "analyse" the account in order to process the withdrawal, what does this mean?

Quite simply, do FTMO refuse to pay out on certain trading styles/volumes? If I stay within all the drawdown and 'red news' restrictions then why is a final check required? Would I have a problem trading $250/tick with a 12 tick SL? All the trades would be my own decision, so not copying other FTMO clients etc.

I would rather know all this now rather than after I have wasted £1k and time/effort doing verifications etc etc. Would it be worthwhile sending/sharing my MetriX with them of the free demo account and say this is what I'm going to do, are you going to pay? Before I purchase a challenge.

Any experiences on this?

And a further post today:

So I started a new trial demo this morning and these are todays trades showing size, max drawdown, duration etc etc. Will FTMO pay out on this type of trading on Oil?
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  • #18,953
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:39pm Aug 24, 2023 1:39pm
Quoting Boulder
I don't care which firm may close out today or tomorrow, this applies to MFFX which some of you so dislike. Once I get funded, it's a free ride. As long as I don't have issues in trading and get my payouts, I want to join as many firms as I can, Why limit yourself to a few?
You are right. But there is a level of risk mitigation thats possible. But if you are maxing bunch of firms why not, max them all.
  • #18,954
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:41pm Aug 24, 2023 1:41pm
Quoting SheikhCarlos
I wrote this in the FTMO thread yesterday but not had any responses yet so thought I would try here: So I am currently doing a free trial. I only trade oil. I trade $250 a tick and have a 12 tick ($3000) Stop Loss on each trade. I would do a $100k Aggressive FTMO account so a max of 10% drawdown per day and 20% overall. The spread on USOil.cash varies between 2-3 ticks on the FTMO demo trial account. The question I have is when the verification stages are passed etc and I've traded a 'live demo' account for 14 days and asked for my first withdrawal...
No one knows, they have only two rules to be careful of, one is the risk management rule which is discretionary so if you are taking big trades they will likely tell you bye bye, or the 2 accounts per strategy rule, which basically means only 2 accounts can have the same trading on it at any time. So if you are trading one way with 2 accounts and someone else opens the same strategy trades on another account, all the accounts will get violations.
  • #18,955
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:45pm Aug 24, 2023 1:45pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} They would have to loosen up a lot they seem pretty tight on rules so far. Lets see what end of year looks like because I am fairly sure something is coming that will shake the tree.
Any specific rules on your mind? Besides the higher Phase 1 target (10%) and higher cost overall they seem pretty relaxed. No BS rules that many others have
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #18,956
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:49pm Aug 24, 2023 1:49pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Any specific rules on your mind? Besides the higher Phase 1 target (10%) and higher cost overall they seem pretty relaxed. No BS rules that many others have
they do add ons for unlimited and stuff dont they? Not as a standard. things like that.
  • #18,957
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:53pm Aug 24, 2023 1:53pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} No one knows, they have only two rules to be careful of, one is the risk management rule which is discretionary so if you are taking big trades they will likely tell you bye bye, or the 2 accounts per strategy rule, which basically means only 2 accounts can have the same trading on it at any time. So if you are trading one way with 2 accounts and someone else opens the same strategy trades on another account, all the accounts will get violations.
Thanks for the reply Takisd, it opens up more questions I guess:

Sounds like a grey area with risk management where they can decide whatever they like? Telling them I'm going to trade $250/tick on Oil from the start with a 12 tick stop loss might help?

The same strategy on more than 2 accounts is the rule that they could use as an excuse not to pay out after all the hard work has been done I guess! My strategy is only for me. However what's to say another FTMO trader isn't deploying the same strategy? Unlikely to be executing trades at exactly the same time all the time though!! The most worrying thing about this is they would not show you any proof if they said that the strategy was being used on 3 accounts or more for example. They could just refuse to pay I guess? What if I am using my strategy on 2 FTMO accounts and someone else comes along and uses the same strategy? Who do they kick out then? I really think we need a definition of what FTMO think multiple versions of the same strategy is.

You reply has created more things for me to consider, thankyou
  • #18,958
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:54pm Aug 24, 2023 1:54pm
Quoting Boulder
I don't care which firm may close out today or tomorrow, this applies to MFFX which some of you so dislike. Once I get funded, it's a free ride. As long as I don't have issues in trading and get my payouts, I want to join as many firms as I can, Why limit yourself to a few?
The thing is that getting funded does not mean anything with many of the firms. I experienced several payout denials for completely fabricated reasons. So you invest money and lot of your time and effort for no reward. Therefore it's not a bad idea to think twice. BTW I was always fine fine with MFFX and got several payments from them without any issues. Unlike with FundedNext, Bespoke, even E8 resisted once (but paid me eventually after beating them up with evidence)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #18,959
  • Aug 24, 2023 1:58pm Aug 24, 2023 1:58pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} they do add ons for unlimited and stuff dont they? Not as a standard. things like that.
true. That's what I meant by higher price rather than rules as you do need to watch out for it just once when placing the order. Except for higher leverage (not needed) the unlimited time, 90:10 split and 14 days cycle (instead of monthly) are via add-ons
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #18,960
  • Aug 24, 2023 2:21pm Aug 24, 2023 2:21pm
Quoting Boulder
I don't care which firm may close out today or tomorrow, this applies to MFFX which some of you so dislike. Once I get funded, it's a free ride. As long as I don't have issues in trading and get my payouts, I want to join as many firms as I can, Why limit yourself to a few?
How do you manage trades with many firms.

Just a question.

When I get into that situation, I need to manage.

Trade copier ?

Some do not agree copying from firm to firm
Intraday only.
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James-nova