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  • #17,261
  • Jun 29, 2023 9:49am Jun 29, 2023 9:49am
Quoting Capablanca
That's how you look at it because behind each rule there is a logic. I'm sure they will point out that grid trading (adding to losers at fixed intervals) is a losing strategy when the market is trending without reverting to mean or to some pullback or retracement point.
-I understand that an argument can be made for both sides. But breaking positions up into smaller sizes does not need to look like grid trading. For example, I can use small sizes that are so close together in price, that you wouldn't even be able to tell how many positions there are. There is just no argument that can be made to say that what I am doing is more risky. It's a blanket rule that can hurt traders that know what they are doing, and the result of that can bring on more risk.

Sometimes, there is a fine line between having a rule and claiming that you are trying to protect traders, and having a rule that just serves as a trap.
  • #17,262
  • Jun 29, 2023 9:50am Jun 29, 2023 9:50am
Quoting Takisd
The firms that have discounts everyday should just lower their prices.
-As you know, it's all marketing. It works, unfortunately.
  • #17,263
  • Jun 29, 2023 9:57am Jun 29, 2023 9:57am
there are tonnes of futures firms who have a 50/50 split and decent dd features.

The problem is they are so hard to get into and 99% of people here/on social media who trade forex won't pass them. When I was a wee lad I traded at one briefly but I was only allowed to trade T bills and it was so hard to make a living but it required so much attention so couldnt have a second job.

A few other firms might have 30% dd 4% targets but i would be super careful with that because the math doesnt work.
  • #17,264
  • Jun 29, 2023 9:57am Jun 29, 2023 9:57am
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  • #17,265
  • Jun 29, 2023 10:10am Jun 29, 2023 10:10am
Quoting Takisd
there are tonnes of futures firms who have a 50/50 split and decent dd features. The problem is they are so hard to get into and 99% of people here/on social media who trade forex won't pass them. When I was a wee lad I traded at one briefly but I was only allowed to trade T bills and it was so hard to make a living but it required so much attention so couldnt have a second job. A few other firms might have 30% dd 4% targets but i would be super careful with that because the math doesnt work.
Nope there are online versions of Futures prop firm (like forex)
https://apextraderfunding.com/
https://apextraderfunding.com/payouts.html

The pay 100% upto 25K per account (you can have 20 so 500K no commissions or fees) and they are crazy cheap like 90% off (They have monthly model)
Now the catch here is trailing unrealized drawdown plus close all positions before 5PM EST.
One more catch here is you have to pay set up or PA fees per account once you pass (this way they get all money if you blew up account)
Withdrawal can be made once you pass allowed withdrawal threshold (same thing like Funded trading plus or surgetrader)
No daily drawdown.
Once you trade with these prop firms you will appreciate forex prop firms even more
  • #17,266
  • Jun 29, 2023 10:16am Jun 29, 2023 10:16am
Quoting sampat
{quote} Nope there are online versions of Futures prop firm (like forex) https://apextraderfunding.com/ https://apextraderfunding.com/payouts.html The pay 100% upto 25K per account (you can have 20 so 500K no commissions or fees) and they are crazy cheap like 90% off (They have monthly model) Now the catch here is trailing unrealized drawdown plus close all positions before 5PM EST. One more catch here is you have to pay set up or PA fees per account once you pass (this way they get all money if you blew up account) Withdrawal...
Yeh sorry I was talking about real prop firms like optiver and propex. Apex has alarm bells all over it, from backstory to font to color scheme to lack of regulatory membership but being located in the US and offering access to centralized products.

Hard pass.
  • #17,267
  • Jun 29, 2023 10:22am Jun 29, 2023 10:22am
Speaking of futures, not sure if anyone trades lumber futures, but I was just looking at my weather app and it looks like the entire country of Canada is on fire at the moment.
  • #17,268
  • Jun 29, 2023 10:23am Jun 29, 2023 10:23am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Yeh sorry I was talking about real prop firms like optiver and propex. Apex has alarm bells all over it, from backstory to font to color scheme to lack of regulatory membership but being located in the US and offering access to centralized products. Hard pass.
Yea same like MyFF and FTMO but they pay. Hard part is to earn profit equivalent to allowed drawdown than you can make pretty decent amount of money.
  • #17,269
  • Jun 29, 2023 10:36am Jun 29, 2023 10:36am
Quoting sampat
{quote} Yea same like MyFF and FTMO but they pay. Hard part is to earn profit equivalent to allowed drawdown than you can make pretty decent amount of money.
Yeh but FTMO and MFF doesn't offer centralized products sir.

Market making centralized products requires a license. They are market making centralized products because there is no way they are executing those trades with 30%/4% and 90% profit split.

Yes again like FTMO and MFF other than the key factor being centralized products.
  • #17,270
  • Jun 29, 2023 10:37am Jun 29, 2023 10:37am
Quoting Nsak3y
Speaking of futures, not sure if anyone trades lumber futures, but I was just looking at my weather app and it looks like the entire country of Canada is on fire at the moment.
Buy pork bellies
  • #17,271
  • Jun 29, 2023 11:30am Jun 29, 2023 11:30am
Quoting Capablanca
True forex - no minimum days Dear Trader! True Forex Funds is always working on making your trading experience better. This is the reason why we created unique opportunities for your needs. We are happy to announce our "Quick Funding" offer, where you can enjoy trading without minimum trading days. Thanks to this, our highly trained team, and the smooth processes at True Forex Funds, in the best-case scenario, you can get your funded payout within 17 days, which is an industry-leading opportunity. Available across all account sizes, this offer can...
Didn't TFF start with no minimum days and then add that within recent months. Now they are going back to it and acting like it's something great?
  • #17,272
  • Jun 29, 2023 12:00pm Jun 29, 2023 12:00pm
Quoting Takisd
Buy pork bellies
-I don't know. Maybe Canadians are less obese than Americans.
  • #17,273
  • Jun 29, 2023 12:08pm Jun 29, 2023 12:08pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Didn't TFF start with no minimum days and then add that within recent months. Now they are going back to it and acting like it's something great?
The constant rule changes are how they manipulate payouts. My personal belief is that there is a bit of ponzi and a bit of legitimate business going on with these firms. When cash flow is getting tight, either from internal trading or challenge fees, they make the terms unfavorable to good traders, and attract the gamblers.

I'm currently in the process of starting my first challenge with the 5ers, and all the reviews from the last 12 months have 3 or 4 different sets of rules. None of this matters to me. As long as I stick to my plan I'll be just fine.
  • #17,274
  • Jun 29, 2023 12:11pm Jun 29, 2023 12:11pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Didn't TFF start with no minimum days and then add that within recent months. Now they are going back to it and acting like it's something great?
Hummm.... didn't they already start with 5 days when MFF and FTMO still had 10 days ?
  • #17,275
  • Jun 29, 2023 12:17pm Jun 29, 2023 12:17pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} Nope there are online versions of Futures prop firm (like forex) https://apextraderfunding.com/ https://apextraderfunding.com/payouts.html The pay 100% upto 25K per account (you can have 20 so 500K no commissions or fees) and they are crazy cheap like 90% off (They have monthly model) Now the catch here is trailing unrealized drawdown plus close all positions before 5PM EST. One more catch here is you have to pay set up or PA fees per account once you pass (this way they get all money if you blew up account) Withdrawal...
That sounds like Top Step. I traded in Top Step in the beginning and the strategy to overcome the trailing DD was to go All or nothing in each trade, hoping the market would move. They didn't like that and threat me to reduce my payout. Eventually I left them but I was able to milk them for a while.
  • #17,276
  • Jun 29, 2023 12:19pm Jun 29, 2023 12:19pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Hummm.... didn't they already start with 5 days when MFF and FTMO still had 10 days ?
I believe TrueForexFunds was one of the early adopter or pioneer of no minimum trading days. They discard starting this year and now reverted back.
  • #17,277
  • Jun 29, 2023 12:22pm Jun 29, 2023 12:22pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} That sounds like Top Step. I traded in Top Step in the beginning and the strategy to overcome the trailing DD was to go All or nothing in each trade, hoping the market would move. They didn't like that and threat me to reduce my payout. Eventually I left them but I was able to milk them for a while.
This one is way better than topstep as top step is 2 phase evaluation and this one is one phase.
Though top step trailing works on balance where as apex is unrealized equity means if you have unrealized profit of 1000$ and you move your stop to break even and it came back to breakeven you will loose 1000$ of drawdown. Payout is much better here twice week.
  • #17,278
  • Jun 29, 2023 12:26pm Jun 29, 2023 12:26pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} This one is way better than topstep as top step is 2 phase evaluation and this one is one phase. Though top step trailing works on balance where as apex is unrealized equity means if you have unrealized profit of 1000$ and you move your stop to break even and it came back to breakeven you will loose 1000$ of drawdown. Payout is much better here twice week.
Isn't that similar to the one step challenges that al lot of props have (with trailing DD) ?
  • #17,279
  • Jun 29, 2023 12:34pm Jun 29, 2023 12:34pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Isn't that similar to the one step challenges that al lot of props have (with trailing DD) ?
No because if I have 100K account and I take a trade and after some time it went to profit and I move my stop loss to breakeven.
All forex 1 step follows balanced based trailing drawdown.
In this scenario balance is still 100K so if trailing drawdown is 5% it will remain at 95K unless you close the position
But in equity base drawdown if equity goes to 101K your drawdown will follow with it that means in 2nd scenario trailing drawdown moved to 96K
I dont understand the logic as it will forced traders to close profitable positions early.
  • #17,280
  • Jun 29, 2023 1:01pm Jun 29, 2023 1:01pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} I believe TrueForexFunds was one of the early adopter or pioneer of no minimum trading days. They discard starting this year and now reverted back.
Yes, that is what I thought.
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